Statue removal

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thedoc
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Re: Statue removal

Post by thedoc » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:13 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:12 pm

More humourless 'Progressive' offended-on-behalf-ofness:
''Disney has halted sales of a costume inspired by its upcoming "Moana" movie after being accused of racism.

The costume is based on Disney's animated depiction of Maui, a key figure in Polynesian oral tradition. It featured full-length brown trousers and a long-sleeved shirt covered in "tattoos," as well as a "skirt" made of leaves.

Traditional tattoos are imbued with deep meaning in Polynesian culture.

Chelsie Haunani Fairchild, who described herself as Polynesian and a native Hawaiian, said the costume was an example of cultural appropriation. It was wrong to sell a costume that allowed children to pretend to be another race, she said.''

All the Polynesians I know have a great sense of humour. I can't imagine them being 'offended' by this. The costume is hilarious. It's a lovely photo of a typical Polynesian child. Oooh, does that 'offend' Ms Fairchild?
If Ms Fairchild doesn't like it, she should change the channel and quit interfering with other peoples lives.

Typical half-brained liberal, trying to tell everyone else how to live. (half-brained is being generous).

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Statue removal

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:42 am

thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:53 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:12 pm
More humourless 'Progressive' offended-on-behalf-ofness:

''Disney has halted sales of a costume inspired by its upcoming "Moana" movie after being accused of racism.

The costume is based on Disney's animated depiction of Maui, a key figure in Polynesian oral tradition. It featured full-length brown trousers and a long-sleeved shirt covered in "tattoos," as well as a "skirt" made of leaves.

Traditional tattoos are imbued with deep meaning in Polynesian culture.

Chelsie Haunani Fairchild, who described herself as Polynesian and a native Hawaiian, said the costume was an example of cultural appropriation.
All the Polynesians I know have a great sense of humour. I can't imagine them being 'offended' by this. The costume is hilarious. It's a lovely photo of a typical Polynesian child. Oooh, does that 'offend' Ms Fairchild?

Image


That is so cute, where can I get one for my granddaughter?

Is it "cultural appropriation" when a black woman straightens her hair to be more white, or when she lightens her hair to be blond?
Is every time one culture adopts the practice of another culture "cultural appropriation"? then everyone is guilty to some degree or another, and white people should never appreciate or play Jazz.


There's no point in asking the whys or wherefores. 'Progressives' are too busy looking for people to be 'offended-on-behalf-of'.
Thanks to one 'Progressive' the outfit is probably now a collector's item.

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Greta
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Re: Statue removal

Post by Greta » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:53 am

It is easy to judge when part of a dominant culture. I imagine it must feel different for those whose people and culture are being eroded by larger and more aggressive cultures to how it would feel as a member of the culture doing the eroding. Even as an Australian, the way US culture has taken over is disappointing, especially the tendency towards overdone patriotism and hysterics about trivia, not to mention Webster's pointless paradoxical complications. Still we dare not complain or someone will blather on about how they "saves out asses" etc.

I don't judge indigenous people at all for speaking out exploitation, nor do I have a problem with black people not wanting to look at the mementos of their relatives' slaughter every day. Why should they not speak out? That is way more PC than the Islanders - don't listen, just shut 'em down. Total PC.

Let them have their say. Are whiteys so insecure and guilt-ridden that they can't stand to hear a few home truths? It's just one more iteration in the age-old game of dominance. Oh well, the PC straitjackets could be a lot worse, eg. as in much of Asia where conformity demands and social judgement are far worse than in the west.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Statue removal

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:41 am

This has nothing to do with any of that.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Statue removal

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:56 am

thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:13 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:12 pm

More humourless 'Progressive' offended-on-behalf-ofness:
''Disney has halted sales of a costume inspired by its upcoming "Moana" movie after being accused of racism.

The costume is based on Disney's animated depiction of Maui, a key figure in Polynesian oral tradition. It featured full-length brown trousers and a long-sleeved shirt covered in "tattoos," as well as a "skirt" made of leaves.

Traditional tattoos are imbued with deep meaning in Polynesian culture.

Chelsie Haunani Fairchild, who described herself as Polynesian and a native Hawaiian, said the costume was an example of cultural appropriation. It was wrong to sell a costume that allowed children to pretend to be another race, she said.''

All the Polynesians I know have a great sense of humour. I can't imagine them being 'offended' by this. The costume is hilarious. It's a lovely photo of a typical Polynesian child. Oooh, does that 'offend' Ms Fairchild?
If Ms Fairchild doesn't like it, she should change the channel and quit interfering with other peoples lives.

Typical half-brained liberal, trying to tell everyone else how to live. (half-brained is being generous).
I wish you wouldn't call them 'liberal'. That's not liberal.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Re:

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:49 am

thedoc wrote:I would think that sticking a microphone in your face and having someone pointing a video camera at you would be a bit of a give away.
You think he had his wife with him at the time?

thedoc
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Re: Statue removal

Post by thedoc » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:55 pm

Greta wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:53 am
It is easy to judge when part of a dominant culture. I imagine it must feel different for those whose people and culture are being eroded by larger and more aggressive cultures to how it would feel as a member of the culture doing the eroding. Even as an Australian, the way US culture has taken over is disappointing, especially the tendency towards overdone patriotism and hysterics about trivia, not to mention Webster's pointless paradoxical complications. Still we dare not complain or someone will blather on about how they "saves out asses" etc.

I don't judge indigenous people at all for speaking out exploitation, nor do I have a problem with black people not wanting to look at the mementos of their relatives' slaughter every day. Why should they not speak out? That is way more PC than the Islanders - don't listen, just shut 'em down. Total PC.

Let them have their say. Are whiteys so insecure and guilt-ridden that they can't stand to hear a few home truths? It's just one more iteration in the age-old game of dominance. Oh well, the PC straitjackets could be a lot worse, eg. as in much of Asia where conformity demands and social judgement are far worse than in the west.
I guess I'm not sure what you are saying here, it appears that you oppose PC. With cultural appropriation do you disapprove or are you saying that it is irrelevant? And how does this relate to statue removal?

thedoc
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Re: Statue removal

Post by thedoc » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:00 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:56 am
thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:13 am
If Ms Fairchild doesn't like it, she should change the channel and quit interfering with other peoples lives.

Typical half-brained liberal, trying to tell everyone else how to live. (half-brained is being generous).
I wish you wouldn't call them 'liberal'. That's not liberal.
In my usage a liberal wants to tell everyone else how to live and what they should and shouldn't do. I would prefer to just be left alone, I can learn better from my own mistakes.

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Greta
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Re: Statue removal

Post by Greta » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:10 pm

thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:55 pm
Greta wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:53 am
It is easy to judge when part of a dominant culture. I imagine it must feel different for those whose people and culture are being eroded by larger and more aggressive cultures to how it would feel as a member of the culture doing the eroding. Even as an Australian, the way US culture has taken over is disappointing, especially the tendency towards overdone patriotism and hysterics about trivia, not to mention Webster's pointless paradoxical complications. Still we dare not complain or someone will blather on about how they "saves out asses" etc.

I don't judge indigenous people at all for speaking out exploitation, nor do I have a problem with black people not wanting to look at the mementos of their relatives' slaughter every day. Why should they not speak out? That is way more PC than the Islanders - don't listen, just shut 'em down. Total PC.

Let them have their say. Are whiteys so insecure and guilt-ridden that they can't stand to hear a few home truths? It's just one more iteration in the age-old game of dominance. Oh well, the PC straitjackets could be a lot worse, eg. as in much of Asia where conformity demands and social judgement are far worse than in the west.
I guess I'm not sure what you are saying here, it appears that you oppose PC. With cultural appropriation do you disapprove or are you saying that it is irrelevant? And how does this relate to statue removal?
My post is pretty clear, doc. I am not wild about political correctness but note that often those who decry it are just as guilty of shutting down honestly expressed opinions themselves.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Statue removal

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:00 pm

Greta wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:10 pm
thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:55 pm
Greta wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:53 am
It is easy to judge when part of a dominant culture. I imagine it must feel different for those whose people and culture are being eroded by larger and more aggressive cultures to how it would feel as a member of the culture doing the eroding. Even as an Australian, the way US culture has taken over is disappointing, especially the tendency towards overdone patriotism and hysterics about trivia, not to mention Webster's pointless paradoxical complications. Still we dare not complain or someone will blather on about how they "saves out asses" etc.

I don't judge indigenous people at all for speaking out exploitation, nor do I have a problem with black people not wanting to look at the mementos of their relatives' slaughter every day. Why should they not speak out? That is way more PC than the Islanders - don't listen, just shut 'em down. Total PC.

Let them have their say. Are whiteys so insecure and guilt-ridden that they can't stand to hear a few home truths? It's just one more iteration in the age-old game of dominance. Oh well, the PC straitjackets could be a lot worse, eg. as in much of Asia where conformity demands and social judgement are far worse than in the west.
I guess I'm not sure what you are saying here, it appears that you oppose PC. With cultural appropriation do you disapprove or are you saying that it is irrelevant? And how does this relate to statue removal?
My post is pretty clear, doc. I am not wild about political correctness but note that often those who decry it are just as guilty of shutting down honestly expressed opinions themselves.
Quite the opposite. The only people on here who can 'shut down opinions' are the moderators. Having a boohoo because someone beats one in an argument is hardly being 'shut down'.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Statue removal

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:02 pm

thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:00 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:56 am
thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:13 am
If Ms Fairchild doesn't like it, she should change the channel and quit interfering with other peoples lives.

Typical half-brained liberal, trying to tell everyone else how to live. (half-brained is being generous).
I wish you wouldn't call them 'liberal'. That's not liberal.
In my usage a liberal wants to tell everyone else how to live and what they should and shouldn't do. I would prefer to just be left alone, I can learn better from my own mistakes.
That's because the PC have hijacked the word. One of the fundamental things that define a liberal is unflinching support for freedom of speech.

Skip
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Re: Statue removal

Post by Skip » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:06 pm

When they're bitterly aggrieved that someone wished them "a happy holiday" instead of merry Christmas, it's because their traditions are being eroded. When someone objects to having another culture's sacred symbols made into a commodity and a joke, that's "oppressive political correctness gone mad".
When someone objects to a Confederate flag flown on a government building, that's PC, a mental illness. The people who defend keeping it there cite "our history" - but never propose putting a union flag up next to it. Nobody who is so staunchly defending the historical monuments of The South ever proposes depicting the general in question with his sword broken, drummed off the field in disgrace, nor erecting another statue beside it, of the general who defeated him.

Selective history; selective cultural icons; selective outrage.

Thing is: the monuments in controversy are triumphal [patently false] representations of the civil War. Their removal, like their location, is the decision of a duly elected city council or state legislature, in response to criticism, over a long period, by their constituents - not by a small group of outsiders who want to tell other people how to live. The same cannot always be said of the most outspoken opponents of these decisions.

Nobody objects to a cenotaph to fallen soldiers or commemorative plaque to a natural disaster that killed local residents; nobody objects to heritage buildings or memorials to artists, inventors and aviators. Nobody fights over preserving the memory of important events and notable persons.
Conflict arises, not over truth, but over ideology.
The Confederacy tore a nation in half and caused the death of over 600,000 combat troops as well as literally uncounted civilians and horses, the devastation of a landscape and loss of infrastructure, in defense of the institution of slavery. That is a fact. After losing the war, the same states continued for another century and more to mistreat their black population in both legal and illegal ways. That is a fact. The legacy of slavery itself, the struggle for political equality and the continuing prejudice are facts. A larger-than-life statue of a serene general on top of his tall horse is not an accurate depiction of the events from which he draws his fame.
These monuments are in no way defensible on the grounds of historical accuracy.
Yet, that is how the anti-removal faction presents its case.

An unbiased arbitrator might be able to find a compromise that does represent history, rather than nostalgia or aspiration.
It would very interesting to see how the lines, pro and con, would form up around that kind of public art.

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Greta
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Re: Statue removal

Post by Greta » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:28 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:00 pm
Greta wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:10 pm
thedoc wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:55 pm


I guess I'm not sure what you are saying here, it appears that you oppose PC. With cultural appropriation do you disapprove or are you saying that it is irrelevant? And how does this relate to statue removal?
My post is pretty clear, doc. I am not wild about political correctness but note that often those who decry it are just as guilty of shutting down honestly expressed opinions themselves.
Quite the opposite. The only people on here who can 'shut down opinions' are the moderators. Having a boohoo because someone beats one in an argument is hardly being 'shut down'.
Since I have had no part of any arguments on the thread, it is dishonest and manipulative to claim that I was involved or "lost" (the latter being a naive and childish notion on a philosophy forum anyway). All I did was watch from the sideline and what I saw was a focus on shutting down alternative opinion with bullying forum tactics.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Statue removal

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:18 am

Greta wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:00 pm
Greta wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:10 pm


My post is pretty clear, doc. I am not wild about political correctness but note that often those who decry it are just as guilty of shutting down honestly expressed opinions themselves.
Quite the opposite. The only people on here who can 'shut down opinions' are the moderators. Having a boohoo because someone beats one in an argument is hardly being 'shut down'.
Since I have had no part of any arguments on the thread, it is dishonest and manipulative to claim that I was involved or "lost" (the latter being a naive and childish notion on a philosophy forum anyway). All I did was watch from the sideline and what I saw was a focus on shutting down alternative opinion with bullying forum tactics.
It's dishonest and manipulative to make snide, thinly-veiled insinuations while touting your own virtuousness at the hands of all the 'big meanies' who allegedly pick on you. It doesn't seem to count when you do it. I'll look over the thread and try to find what it is you are referring to and get back to you :)

thedoc
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Re: Statue removal

Post by thedoc » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:28 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:02 pm
That's because the PC have hijacked the word. One of the fundamental things that define a liberal is unflinching support for freedom of speech.
I base my usage on the actions of politicians who call themselves Liberal, what you call yourself and your actions mean more than some Wiki description, it was probably written by a liberal who wanted to white wash the term.

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