Alt-Right Art

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Pluto
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Alt-Right Art

Post by Pluto » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:11 pm

Gallery in London forced to close-down

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 31971.html

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:44 am

Okay, I'm not sure if the alt-right actually exists, seems to be a liberal invention from America, so I have even less doubt about the legitimacy of it being in another country that is generally confused about American politics. Seems a rather comic joke.

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Seleucus
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Seleucus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:34 pm

You can see the artists who have shown at LD50 here,

https://www.ld50gallery.com/exhibitions

The only ones I'm very familiar with on the page are the Chapman brothers, I wrote an article on their Zygotic Acceleration collection some years ago. They're pretty hardcore and would not appeal to snowflakes, apparently Tears of Eros inspired them much. They did some re-touching up of original Hitler water colors, but ruining them...

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:10 pm

Seleucus wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:34 pm
You can see the artists who have shown at LD50 here,

https://www.ld50gallery.com/exhibitions
If the art on the website is what was at the gallery, the alt-right art looks about almost as degenerate as the degenerate art they complain about.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:24 pm

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:44 am
Okay, I'm not sure if the alt-right actually exists
They obviously do, but the real criteria is typically people who are proudly using the term, and are actually an ethno-nationalist like Richard Spencer. People have this tendency to relate things to the 'alt-right' that are really just disenfranchised members of the right-wing, like Steve Bannon.

This seems to more or less be the case with the art gallery here, because I can't find anything concrete linking it to the alt-right. The article says racist speakers were invited by the gallery, but I can only find people like Brett Stevens, who is about as neo-conservative as it gets, and a far stretch away from the alt-right. Otherwise, I saw one article saying how it was showcasing 'racist memes', but didn't elaborate what that really means. My initial reaction is to assume these are the type of people who have a problem with the 'Pepe' frog, or anything from 4chan at all, but again I don't want to jump to conclusions because it just didn't state.

I would be hard-pressed to see something that warrants such behavior from other people, though.

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Seleucus
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Seleucus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:50 am

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:10 pm
Seleucus wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:34 pm
You can see the artists who have shown at LD50 here,

https://www.ld50gallery.com/exhibitions
If the art on the website is what was at the gallery, the alt-right art looks about almost as degenerate as the degenerate art they complain about.
This is the real alt-right art I suppose:

http://pioneereducationonline.com/wp-co ... ympic.jpeg
https://jillsbooks.files.wordpress.com/ ... unners.jpg
https://www.privatetoursathens.com/datafiles/285.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BoVKkUIlkCY/U ... unners.jpg

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Seleucus
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Seleucus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:51 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:24 pm
actually an ethno-nationalist like Richard Spencer.
Why is it okay when Koreans or Indonesians are ethnonationalist, but when any White peoples are, that's a monstrosity?

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:54 am

Seleucus wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:51 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:24 pm
actually an ethno-nationalist like Richard Spencer.
Why is it okay when Koreans or Indonesians are ethnonationalist, but when any White peoples are, that's a monstrosity?
I wasn't aware that it is? What notable 'Korean' or 'Indonesian' is getting a pass for being a sort of racial eugenicist? They certainly wouldn't get one from me.

Regardless, I was just explaining what the 'alt-right' actually is.

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Seleucus
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Seleucus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:11 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:54 am
Seleucus wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:51 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:24 pm
actually an ethno-nationalist like Richard Spencer.
Why is it okay when Koreans or Indonesians are ethnonationalist, but when any White peoples are, that's a monstrosity?
I wasn't aware that it is? What notable 'Korean' or 'Indonesian' is getting a pass for being a sort of racial eugenicist? They certainly wouldn't get one from me.
You are not aware that Indonesians and Koreans fought brutally for a century to eject foreigners from their countries? They impose national languages and have essentially no pathway for foreign citizenship. The Indonesians went further and genocided the remaining Europeans, half-casts and Orientals. But when White people don't want their countries swarmed by foreigners, that is wrong.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:28 am

Seleucus wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:11 am
You are not aware that Indonesians and Koreans fought brutally for a century to eject foreigners from their countries?
Well, I thought we were talking about individuals here. There's the aspect that I just don't see this as the same thing, but I think you also need to consider that people are much more involved within their own politics, while typically ignoring foreign affairs such as this. The reason why you don't see as many people objecting to the sort of harsh immigration laws we see in japan, as you do here, for example, is mostly because there aren't as many of these pro-immigration activists who are aware of it.
Seleucus wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:11 am
But when White people don't want their countries swarmed by foreigners, that is wrong.
That is a very different topic than the sort of ethno-nationalism that Richard Spencer believes, specifically. He is not merely against immigration, which of course I wouldn't be grouping into the same thing.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:12 am

Okay, I can't put a face to Richard Spencer, but I live in the most pro-Trump state in the US, and my city in that state is strongly for him, quite possibly the strongest bastion of support Trump has in the US.

I absolutely know of nobody who identifies as Alt-Right. I couldn't give a definition of what Alt-Right is, other than a statement that it is some pretty nasty groups liberals here identified as a unified force, at the heart of Trump's movement.

Honestly, this area hasn't even had a cross burning since the early 1990's, and I think they came from a chapter further west in Ohio. They followed news stories, popped up and antagonized, as was their MO back then. We used to have a Neo-Nazis compound a few hundred miles south, but went bankrupt cause they were a joke. Only person I've met openly pro-Nazis on a philosophy forum (openly, some not so open but obvious) would be Zoot Allures over at ilovephilosophy.com, and he was a open liberal.

I don't actually know of a single person who qualifies. Supporting Trump alone can't possibly qualify, as he has a variety of supporters. I'm a Paleontologist-Conservative, a movement that started well before Trump was around. Our reading list involves the founding fathers more than anything.

So it isn't obvious they exist, and if they exist, they are really small, and likely accepted the label just to get attention. It isn't a real political movement with solid voter blocks and objectives, and known big time leaders. And no, Breitbart doesn't count, as the alt-right is described as Anti-Semitic, and most of the writers are Jewish in Breitbart (they even have a Israeli branch).

I honestly have severe doubts it exists. If it is just white nationalists, then we didn't call them "Alt Right" till recently. The Nazis are technically Liberal, given they don't have a history to echo back to in the US, other than being influenced by leftist progressives from the 1930s in the US. One can be a conservative and progressive technically, merely by holding to classical progressive beliefs, but they insist on being called the Left, which is arbitrarily called liberal in the current norm of the left. KKK or pro-confederate groups can claim to be conservative, as a past government existed, so isn't a hypothetical liberal system, but one that had concrete time as a governing power. But the vast majority of conservatives have nothing to do with that, and you can be equally conservative pointing to the union era, which obviously opposed the southern system.

Conservative = Returning/Continuing to What Was
Liberal = Introduction/Advocacy to a new system

What is called conservative in Europe is often liberal in the US, and it isn't meaningful to insist a universal left or right, as all these little ideological groups do not land properly in the left of right. Technically, a Paleo-Conservative in the US has the most legitimate claim to being called a Liberal, while a pro-British Canadian immigrant can technically claim to being the most conservative.

By trying to paint broad brushstrokes across the western world and Europe that all these groups are Alt Right, or Liberal, doesn't quite pass muster. I'm deeply, deeply suspect of any art gallery displaying anything, in England of all places, who have in general a poor at best understanding of our politics (even your most conservative thinkers are liberal loons here!), thinking they can show off the inner thinking of a movement, one that seems to only exist when liberals are stitching them together as a movement and denouncing them. It is a Frankenstein of the left, not quite brought to life. How the fuck do they have a art gallery dedicated to them? Does England also have art galleries made of paintings from residents of the moon? Grandma's moonwalk? Jimmy harvesting cheese from the hillside for dinner in his spacesuit?

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 am

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:12 am
Okay, I can't put a face to Richard Spencer
Definitely relevant as an example to the discussion, considering he was the very person who coined the term 'alt-right'.
I absolutely know of nobody who identifies as Alt-Right. I couldn't give a definition of what Alt-Right is, other than a statement that it is some pretty nasty groups liberals here identified as a unified force, at the heart of Trump's movement.
Yeah, they're definitely not a group to take seriously as this 'up-and-rising' threat, as much of the media has made out. Their numbers are not even close to being as statistically relevant as a third party.

Truth be told, the main thing that keeps the term 'alt-right' alive, are people who want to consider anyone who's vaguely disenfranchised from the right as this neo-nazi - and sometimes, even if you're only against PC culture and the sort of social justice warriors we see on campuses. As it seems more recently, people have even tried to throw people like Brett Stevens and Ben Shapiro under that umbrella, despite that they're about as conservatively conservative as it gets. As someone who's kept up with this for the last few years, the term is about as abused as a battered wife, and for anyone in the mix, it's hard to take anyone who uses it seriously, without a large scoop of skepticism.

surreptitious57
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:07 am

I think the term came into general use after Trump was elected and so it is associated with his presidency. Whether it shall survive
after he leaves office remains to be seen. What gives a word or phrase its legitimacy is not how accurate it is but how popular it is
And so if it is no more than stereotyping a conservative world view that does not actually matter so long as it continues to be used

Londoner
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Londoner » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:22 am

I'd say 'Alt-Right' describes the people with the money. Politics today is not about building a mass movement of people with a particular ideology, it is about interest groups nudging things in the direction they want. Or - more broadly - 'Alt-Right' can describe the client groups of those who have the money; journalists, PR firms, lobbyists, tame politicians, 'research foundations'.

The crazy neo-Nazis and other racists who attach themselves to the Alt-Right label are probably seen as an embarrassment. Except that with right wing organisations there tends to be a few of the rich backers who will share such views, so that the movement cannot completely disown them for fear of provoking a split.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: Alt-Right Art

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:06 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:07 am
I think the term came into general use after Trump was elected and so it is associated with his presidency. Whether it shall survive after he leaves office remains to be seen. What gives a word or phrase its legitimacy is not how accurate it is but how popular it is And so if it is no more than stereotyping a conservative world view that does not actually matter so long as it continues to be used
The problem is these white nationalists never stopped using the term themselves, so for one it's creating this false impression that groups trump and spencer into one in the same thing. It may have started off as a way to describe the trump-era of republicans, but that doesn't seem to be where its definition even stopped expanding, because people who are against third-wave feminism have been accused of being 'alt-right', people who are into 4chan memes have been accused of being 'alt-right', and sometimes even very traditional conservatives like Ben Shapiro are 'alt-right'. These reporters don't have any clear image for what the term actually encompasses, probably because they just don't know what they're talking about.
Londoner wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:22 am
I'd say 'Alt-Right' describes the people with the money.
So another person who wants to change what it actually means? Just goes to show exactly what I'm talking about, here. Very few people who use the term seem to have any solid grasp of what it means - even to themselves - and especially its origin.

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