Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

What is art? What is beauty?

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Pluto
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Pluto » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:00 pm

We must first determine what 'truth' are we talking about when we talk about it being in an artwork.

The text from Boris Groys at the top of the thread for example, what truth is he referring to?
http://www.e-flux.com/journal/71/60513/ ... th-of-art/

artisticsolution
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:45 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:AS: If Art is capable of being the medium of truth, then shouldn't we also ask if the artist is capable of truth?
There is no art without the artist.

M: Yes, we could ask that but there is no 'should' to it. Even if an artist has a tendency to lie, this does not necessarily mean that 'art is not capable of being the medium of truth'.
What truth could art reveal?

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:59 pm

artisticsolution wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote:AS: If Art is capable of being the medium of truth, then shouldn't we also ask if the artist is capable of truth?
There is no art without the artist.

M: Yes, we could ask that but there is no 'should' to it. Even if an artist has a tendency to lie, this does not necessarily mean that 'art is not capable of being the medium of truth'.
What truth could art reveal?
Think about what kind of truths are out there...
Think about what kind of art is out there...
Think about the power of art...
Is it about revealing anything...
If you have ever been touched or moved by any art form, narrative message, then have you never said how true that is...

Impenitent
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Impenitent » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:12 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Impenitent wrote:
Pluto wrote:The central question to be asked about art is this one: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
if art can predict the future...

art is rarely done ...

-Imp
Care to expand on this, Imp?
It made me think of the 'art' of science-fiction - does the future seem more apparent to such writers; do the books - the art itself - actually have a direct influence on the way the world then operates...
Why do you say that 'art is rarely done' ?
mediums predict the future, the interpretation of art may influence things to come...

medium is a burnt steak, the bloodier the better...

martial arts are underappreciated ...

-Imp

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:13 pm

How impish of you :D

artisticsolution
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by artisticsolution » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:41 am

marjoram_blues wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote:AS: If Art is capable of being the medium of truth, then shouldn't we also ask if the artist is capable of truth?
There is no art without the artist.

M: Yes, we could ask that but there is no 'should' to it. Even if an artist has a tendency to lie, this does not necessarily mean that 'art is not capable of being the medium of truth'.
What truth could art reveal?
Think about what kind of truths are out there...
Think about what kind of art is out there...
Think about the power of art...
Is it about revealing anything...
If you have ever been touched or moved by any art form, narrative message, then have you never said how true that is...
"The truth doesn't have versions."
Diane Keaton in Something's Gotta Give

To me "truth" has nothing to do with feelings or emotions. In fact, I would go as far to say it is the antithesis...

This is where the illusion comes into play, imo. Humans wanting so badly for their feelings to matter they will make them more important than they really are. They're just feelings. Nothing more nothing less...what causes them is another story. Solve that problem and you might get closer to the truth...if there is such a thing. I am not convinced.

Pluto
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Pluto » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:33 am

Truth
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Truth (disambiguation).
Part of a series on
Certainty
ApproximationBeliefCertaintyDoubtDeterminismFallibilismFatalismHypothesisJustificationNihilismProofScientific theorySkepticismSolipsismTheoryTruthUncertainty

Related concepts and fundamentals:
AgnosticismEpistemologyPresuppositionProbability
vte


Time Saving Truth from Falsehood and Envy, François Lemoyne, 1737


Truth, holding a mirror and a serpent (1896). Olin Levi Warner, Library of Congress Thomas Jefferson Building, Washington, D.C.
Truth is most often used to mean being in accord with fact or reality,[1] or fidelity to an original or standard.[1] Truth may also often be used in modern contexts to refer to an idea of "truth to self," or authenticity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticity_(philosophy)

Kierkegaard views the media as supporting a society that does not form its own opinions but utilizes the opinions constructed by the news.

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:11 am

So, Pluto - looking back at all the responses so far, what have we got?
A definite no, it is not true that X because blah, blah, blah.
A definite yes, it is true that X because blah, blah, blah.
And a few other points of view.
What about a perhaps, it is sometimes true that some art is sometimes capable of being a medium of some kind of truth because blah, blah, blah.

Do you think that the word 'truth' is the sticking point ?

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Greta
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Greta » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:13 am

marjoram_blues wrote:
Greta wrote:
Pluto wrote:The central question to be asked about art is this one: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
I haven't read the article but definitely, yes. A great painting can capture aspects of a subject that a camera cannot - sometimes features need exaggeration, or the Picasso cubist method of providing two simultaneous perspectives comes to mind. In music, too, emotions can be touched, resonated with, in unique ways.
Taking the question at face-value ( yeah, I didn't read the article either!) - it needs to be taken apart.
What kind of art; type of truth. Capability - the power to do something. Medium - a means of doing something - material or form used as intermediary between sensory impressions, interpretations, expressions.

I agree that 'art' ( umbrella term for diverse range of human creativity, visual, auditory etc.) has the power to act as a middle state conveying a type of truth. As you suggest, there is a touching of our senses which can resonate in unique ways. It can be exciting - as in sparks of energy and those wow moments which are open to us, if we are open to other ways of looking at the world. Art is a shared experience; powerful in its ability to manipulate. Manipulation is an art in itself. Whose 'truth' can we be sure of? An important question; our decision-making abilities depend on sifting through sometimes shifty works of art. Other times, we are uplifted by simply reading an inspirational quote on a beautiful background, which may or may not exist in the 'real' world. The words ring true to us, at the time - but time, place and persons shift. Truth is relative.
Yes, "a type of truth" and always relative and, aside from skills, subjective. For instance, a subject may be smiling but there is a hint of melancholy in her eyes that is impactful face-to-face but would not be captured by a photo, but a perceptive artist may be able to bring out that feature.

Good point about manipulations. Art, like anything with power, can be used for whatever purpose.

BTW, nice to see you again. I was disappointed when you fled the last outbreak of ad hominem fever here!

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:48 am

Thanks, Greta. My flight from PN was due to an accumulation of factors not just the last lot of garbage ( years here make you pretty much immune to it). Real life issues took over in a major way - bringing home a truth about time and energy wastage. In other words, I said fuck it !
However, this place is great for a bit of escape to other worlds...
and wonderful words which can shift or recharge the half-dead thinking/feeling cells.
The time is ripe to re-explore or explode :D

Walker
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Walker » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:02 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Walker wrote:Anything is capable of being a medium of truth, even a rock, or the expanse of depthless sky.

Two factors determine the actuality: situation and receiver.
Interesting and poetic, Walker, what kind of truth does a rock or the sky express ?
There’s more than meets the eye
Before people existed she was formed in stone
In a black-veined turquoise
As a perfect cameo in blue
A natural snapshot in stone
A spontaneous smile while singing
Hiding among hints of other shapes
Polished and set in a ring of silver

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:11 pm

Beautiful and soothing to the ear. Thanks, Walker, for this natural ring of truth. Awesome art in every time, place and person. Connecting despite not always seeing eye-to-eye but looking above and beyond.

Pluto
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Pluto » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:15 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:So, Pluto - looking back at all the responses so far, what have we got?
A definite no, it is not true that X because blah, blah, blah.
A definite yes, it is true that X because blah, blah, blah.
And a few other points of view.
What about a perhaps, it is sometimes true that some art is sometimes capable of being a medium of some kind of truth because blah, blah, blah.

Do you think that the word 'truth' is the sticking point ?
Yes MB, all the responses are great - but it's too early for me to know what to think or say. Authenticity is something that I see as being connected to the idea of truth. I have also been looking at Stoic Philosophy as something of interest. Then also reading a book on TRUTH that talks about Hermeneutics as being a way to consider something as being a truth. How one interprets and sees a thing. And then to be able to discuss why one interpretation may be better or worse than another.

I wrote ALL ARTISTS ARE A PRODUCT OF SOCIETY on a canvas and a person said ah a truism. But this response sounded more like a critique than not.

The truth I am thinking about is perhaps attached to notions of authenticity, this is where I'm at now. Authentic mass culture we don't have.

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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by attofishpi » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:02 am

Pluto wrote: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
I think so. Im thinking of doing a painting or cartoon of Assad n Putin on a chair on top of a pile of bodies including children.

Pluto
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Pluto » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:59 am

That would be read as western imperialist propaganda. You have to add the western leaders to that painting if you want it to ring true.
syria.jpg
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