Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

What is art? What is beauty?

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Pluto
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Pluto » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:44 am

Just re-reading TRUTH by philosopher John D. Caputo

"to say that something is true is to say that it has a future, and for us to be in the truth is to be exposed to that future"

We are not in the truth and so that future is closed off. Rather we are in a fabricated 'truth' whose future is in the hands of the fabricators of that 'truth'. In this way do they (partly) control the future direction of the world.

On Derrida:
"his famous word 'deconstruction' means finding a way to keep the future of a thing open..."

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:48 am

HexHammer wrote:
Pluto wrote:The central question to be asked about art is this one: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
Your point is moot as ...yes it can ..but also can be a medium of lies, therefore no one knows when it's a lie or truth, and the result is inconsequential.
/
I agree that art can be used in both ways and sometimes nobody can discern what is real. But how is this 'inconsequential' ?

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:54 am

Impenitent wrote:
Pluto wrote:The central question to be asked about art is this one: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
if art can predict the future...

art is rarely done ...

-Imp
Care to expand on this, Imp?
It made me think of the 'art' of science-fiction - does the future seem more apparent to such writers; do the books - the art itself - actually have a direct influence on the way the world then operates...
Why do you say that 'art is rarely done' ?

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:55 am

artisticsolution wrote:
Pluto wrote:The central question to be asked about art is this one: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
No. Art is a mirage...it is a magic trick...it is an illusion of aesthetics.

Truth? There is no such thing. Truth is a delusion of the gullible.
Care to expand on this, AS?
For example, what do you mean by ' an illusion of aesthetics' ?
What kind of 'truth' are you denying?

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:00 pm

Walker wrote:Anything is capable of being a medium of truth, even a rock, or the expanse of depthless sky.

Two factors determine the actuality: situation and receiver.
Interesting and poetic, Walker, what kind of truth does a rock or the sky express ?

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:02 pm

Pluto wrote:The central question to be asked about art is this one: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
Thanks, Pluto, you pinged my half-dead brain cell !

Pluto
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Pluto » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:02 pm

I am painting pictures with the idea in mind that elements of 'truth' can be housed within the work. The painting below came about through changes and accidents that I did not foresee. In a way I was there but the painting was left enough space to make itself actually. I am reminded of a poem (that I cannot find) that said something like: the man steers the boat and the boat steers the man.
Update:
In a control system, such as a steersman, the controller interacts with the device being controlled, but the boat (the device) interacts with the steersman too.
Molto Bello.jpg
Molto Bello.jpg (136.98 KiB) Viewed 1748 times
Last edited by Pluto on Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:23 pm, edited 7 times in total.

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:04 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Pluto wrote:The central question to be asked about art is this one: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
Thanks, Pluto, you pinged my half-dead brain cell !
As did Terrapin Station :D

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:11 pm

Pluto wrote:I am painting pictures with the idea in mind that elements of 'truth' can be housed within the work. This picture below, in what way (if at all) could we say that it could hold within itself notions of truth? It came about through me making it happen and through accident, in that things happened that I did not foresee.

Molto Bello.jpg
What kind of 'truth' were you trying to 'house' ? Seems to me like you are trying too hard to force the issue - and therefore it doesn't seem 'true' to me.

Pluto
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by Pluto » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:37 pm

Yes, it is not the sole focus though, just something in the back of my mind or at least one of many categories thought about when painting. It has become more interesting as our societies move into a place of post-truth, or at least that label has been floated around recently.

What kind of truth you say, I don't know. Maybe the fact I'm thinking about it when I make the painting is enough or at least a start.

artisticsolution
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:23 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:
Pluto wrote:The central question to be asked about art is this one: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
No. Art is a mirage...it is a magic trick...it is an illusion of aesthetics.

Truth? There is no such thing. Truth is a delusion of the gullible.
Care to expand on this, AS?
For example, what do you mean by ' an illusion of aesthetics' ?
What kind of 'truth' are you denying?
Hi M,

It's nice to see you again! What I mean by "illusion of aesthetics" is that I think people are gullible to visual influence. So much so that I think it is impossible to know 'truth' with any real certainty. Not in the sense that we must give up on trying to know 'truth' but in the sense that we should maybe put a certain entertainment value on truth. As a way of allowing our belief system to constantly be challenged. thereby being able, hopefully, to not be so gullible.

If we put an 'entertainment value' on what we perceive as 'truth' then , I think, we could possibly stand back, as if in an audience at a magic show, and hopefully learn to challenge our concept of truth while sometimes still allowing ourselves to be entertained by the illusion.All the while knowing, our perception of 'truth' could be wrong.

I see the problem with thinking there is an ultimate truth, as a problem in a narcissistic society, who all are so sure they hold the ultimate 'truth', that they have placed themselves in the position of Judge and jury in a case they know little about. Facts and reason go out the window when it comes to deliberation. The verdict in many cases is believed to come from divine intervention by the narcissist. This can be on a grand scale, such as a perceived threat of nuclear war, where the narcissist feels he alone has the power to end/save the world, down to the lesser consequential belief we are in love with the perfect person simply because they possess beauty.

But to make things more simple, here is an excerpt from "my cousin vinny" to better explain,

Vinny:The D.A.'s got to build a case. Building a case is like building a house. Each piece of evidence is just another building block. He wants to make a brick bunker of a building. He wants to use serious, solid-looking bricks, like, like these, right? (puts his hand on the wall)
Bill: Right.
Vinny: Let me show you something. (he holds up a playing card, the ace of spades, with the face toward Billy) He's going to show you the bricks. He'll show you they got straight sides. He'll show you how they got the right shape. He'll show them to you in a very special way, so that they appear to have everything a brick should have. But there's one thing he's not gonna show you. (turns the card, so that its edge is toward Billy. The card is now a joker.) When you look at the bricks from the right angle, they're as thin as this playing card. His whole case is an illusion, a magic trick.

artisticsolution
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:30 pm

uwot wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:Yes, and I believe it's mankind's most worthy attribute and goal to fight these impulses because that is where unreasonable thoughts and actions lie.

We have the ability to escape these thoughts of hate and replace them with reason.

I refuse to take the defeatist attitude you promote.
I wish I had said that. (Although in the future, I almost certainly will.)
Thanks uwot. You made my day! :)

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:33 pm

Q: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
AS: No. Art is a mirage...it is a magic trick...it is an illusion of aesthetics.
Truth? There is no such thing. Truth is a delusion of the gullible

M: Care to expand on this, AS?
For example, what do you mean by ' an illusion of aesthetics' ?
What kind of 'truth' are you denying?
AS: Hi M,It's nice to see you again! What I mean by "illusion of aesthetics" is that I think people are gullible to visual influence.

M: Thanks ! It's always just a matter of time, energy and motivation. Pluto's question engaged me, for some reason.
Even if 'people are gullible to visual influence', it isn't necessarily true that 'Art is not capable of being a medium of the truth', is it?

artisticsolution
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:00 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Q: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?
AS: No. Art is a mirage...it is a magic trick...it is an illusion of aesthetics.
Truth? There is no such thing. Truth is a delusion of the gullible

M: Care to expand on this, AS?
For example, what do you mean by ' an illusion of aesthetics' ?
What kind of 'truth' are you denying?
AS: Hi M,It's nice to see you again! What I mean by "illusion of aesthetics" is that I think people are gullible to visual influence.

M: Thanks ! It's always just a matter of time, energy and motivation. Pluto's question engaged me, for some reason.
Even if 'people are gullible to visual influence', it isn't necessarily true that 'Art is not capable of being a medium of the truth', is it?
If Art is capable of being the medium of truth, then shouldn't we also ask if the artist is capable of truth?

There is no art without the artist.

marjoram_blues
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Re: Is art capable of being a medium of truth?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:42 pm

AS: If Art is capable of being the medium of truth, then shouldn't we also ask if the artist is capable of truth?
There is no art without the artist.

M: Yes, we could ask that but there is no 'should' to it. Even if an artist has a tendency to lie, this does not necessarily mean that 'art is not capable of being the medium of truth'.

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