What is poetry?

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marjoram_blues
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What is poetry?

Post by marjoram_blues » Sun May 08, 2016 11:16 pm

Do we need a definition ? What are the necessary and sufficient conditions?
How do we recognise when someone is being poetic?
What are the characteristics, or properties?
What is the objective of producing poetry?


Is it simply an emotional expression; a form of therapy.
From the reader's point of view, do we apply special criteria for how great a poem is?
What is the best kind of writing?
Philosophical ?
Original ?
Moving...

Who amongst the contributors to the Poetry thread consider themselves philosophical poets, or poetic philosophers ?
Where did Psychonaut fly off to?

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Harbal
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by Harbal » Mon May 09, 2016 6:08 am

marjoram_blues wrote: What is the objective of producing poetry?
I'v often wondered this, myself.

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Gary Childress
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by Gary Childress » Mon May 09, 2016 7:41 am

marjoram_blues wrote:What is the objective of producing poetry?
Poetry
Ought to be
Just something for all of our amusement
It’s just an elective
There’s really no other objective
Except perhaps to make some money

:D

marjoram_blues
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon May 09, 2016 8:45 am

Harbal wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote: What is the objective of producing poetry?
I'v often wondered this, myself.
Why do you wonder about that, often?
I get the feeling that it is not out of curiosity and a need for an answer, but that you don't like it, or see it as a waste of time.
But feelings can be deceptive, so I'm curious...
Why?
Is it a particular point re the Poetry thread, or...

marjoram_blues
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon May 09, 2016 8:59 am

Gary Childress wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote:What is the objective of producing poetry?
Poetry
Ought to be
Just something for all of our amusement
It’s just an elective
There’s really no other objective
Except perhaps to make some money

:D
Nice one, Gary.
But should there be an 'ought' ?
Yes, following line - I agree that it should be inclusive and accessible to all. To be creative and write - poetry in this instance - as part of mental reflection and expression - what a release, relief. Even if not considered 'great' by all.

And is 'amusement' more about 'musing' than 'entertaining'. A bit of both.
To make money through being an author of poetry - that would be some undertaking. I think. Even if only as pocket money.
It would be a case of 'don't give up your day job' - if you had one.
And that brings me to the 'labelling' question. For everyone...

If you were to apply for a job, or present your profile on a dating website - would you even consider for a minute including the line:
'I am a poetic philosopher or philosophical poet' ?

marjoram_blues
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon May 09, 2016 10:01 am

Of course we don't really need to discuss this at all. Simply look up wiki, or this:
http://poetry.org/whatis.htm

Poetry can be differentiated most of the time from prose, which is language meant to convey meaning in a more expansive and less condensed way, frequently using more complete logical or narrative structures than poetry does. This does not necessarily imply that poetry is illogical, but rather that poetry is often created from the need to escape the logical, as well as expressing feelings and other expressions in a tight, condensed manner. English Romantic poet John Keats termed this escape from logic Negative Capability. A further complication is that prose poetry combines the characteristics of poetry with the superficial appearance of prose, such as in Robert Frost's poem, "Home Burial." Other forms include narrative poetry and dramatic poetry, both of which are used to tell stories and so resemble novels and plays. However, both these forms of poetry use the specific features of verse composition to make these stories more memorable or to enhance them in some way.

What is generally accepted as "great" poetry is debatable in many cases. "Great" poetry usually follows the characteristics listed above, but it is also set apart by its complexity and sophistication. "Great" poetry generally captures images vividly and in an original, refreshing way, while weaving together an intricate combination of elements like theme tension, complex emotion, and profound reflective thought. For examples of what is considered "great" poetry, visit the Pulitzer prize and Nobel prize sections for poetry.

Walker
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by Walker » Mon May 09, 2016 11:22 am

marjoram_blues wrote:Do we need a definition ? What are the necessary and sufficient conditions?
How do we recognise when someone is being poetic?
What are the characteristics, or properties?
What is the objective of producing poetry?


Is it simply an emotional expression; a form of therapy.
From the reader's point of view, do we apply special criteria for how great a poem is?
What is the best kind of writing?
Philosophical ?
Original ?
Moving...

Who amongst the contributors to the Poetry thread consider themselves philosophical poets, or poetic philosophers ?
Where did Psychonaut fly off to?
Hello.

I say that a good poem evokes an emotional response.
The intent in the writing is to set in stone the ineffable glimpsed within the particular;
a.k.a squeezing the ocean into a drop;
a.k.a. reduction to the essence;
a.k.a. philosophy.

The intent to write a poem is felt as a need
The writing of the poem gives relief from the need
Relief in the form of feeling and experiencing peace
Until the need returns
Which also explains the distinction between desire and need.

*

Roses are red
Berries are blues
All who bed
Wed the memory
To forever changing the news


*

Since it’s considered gauche for the poet to speak of his poem, the scholar analyzes, further distancing the ineffable when habitually apriori. The first two lines are a cliché. Blues is in names and everyone knows the blues. Berries are not only blue they are slang for a portion of male anatomy, and berries that are blue is also slang. Bed is used as a verb, as in bedding someone, thus everyone who beds someone in fact weds, or marries themselves to that person in memory so that the memory of that person always will influence you, and even though the ego does not realize it this memory contributes to the future, which changes the way news is perceived and on an unstated level, how news is made. The relevance of blue berries (Rolling Stones, Can’t Get No Satisfaction), bedding someone (getting satisfaction), wedding someone (married to the memory that influences the unfolding dance of reality in recognition and action), all relates to the drive for propagation, the root of the flower that attracts the dance, a.k.a. the music of voice energy, apparent in birds which were the models for human speech, if those in the know are to be believed.

Of course there's much more that could be related and as more is related, more can be. Such as, the dadaist pursuit of the irrelevant with serious and dedicated attention, or as one of my professors put it, raising the blade on your lawnmower until it doesn't touch the grass, then meticulously going over your suburban lawn as if accomplishing something.

HexHammer
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by HexHammer » Mon May 09, 2016 5:07 pm

This thread is a good example of why philosophers are so utterly useless!!! Ask sub basic questions, because they are too lazy themselves to look it up, and needs others to do basic thinking for them, any such person would get fired instantly from any serious business.

marjoram_blues
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon May 09, 2016 6:03 pm

HexHammer wrote:This thread is a good example of why philosophers are so utterly useless!!! Ask sub basic questions, because they are too lazy themselves to look it up, and needs others to do basic thinking for them, any such person would get fired instantly from any serious business.
Aw diddums, I hear your pained refrain. Now give it some beat.

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Harbal
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by Harbal » Mon May 09, 2016 6:40 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Why do you wonder about that, often?
I get the feeling that it is not out of curiosity and a need for an answer, but that you don't like it, or see it as a waste of time.
But feelings can be deceptive, so I'm curious...
Why?
Is it a particular point re the Poetry thread, or...
I just don't get anything from poetry, absolutely nothing. I know it means a lot to many people so I do realise it is not without value but it's a complete mystery to me. So, what is poetry? It's a way of using words in such a way as to get on my nerves.

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Harbal
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by Harbal » Mon May 09, 2016 6:47 pm

HexHammer wrote:This thread is a good example of why philosophers are so utterly useless!!! .
If that's how you feel about philosophers why spend any time on a philosophy forum? You're as bad as me, participating in a thread about poetry when I don't actually like poetry. I think people like us just like to spoil it for everyone else.

marjoram_blues
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon May 09, 2016 6:48 pm

Harbal wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote:
Why do you wonder about that, often?
I get the feeling that it is not out of curiosity and a need for an answer, but that you don't like it, or see it as a waste of time.
But feelings can be deceptive, so I'm curious...
Why?
Is it a particular point re the Poetry thread, or...
I just don't get anything from poetry, absolutely nothing. I know it means a lot to many people so I do realise it is not without value but it's a complete mystery to me. So, what is poetry? It's a way of using words in such a way as to get on my nerves.
Do you feel the same way about music?

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Harbal
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by Harbal » Mon May 09, 2016 6:56 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Do you feel the same way about music?
No, quite the opposite. I do, however, tend to prefer instrumental music.

marjoram_blues
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by marjoram_blues » Mon May 09, 2016 7:05 pm

Harbal wrote:
marjoram_blues wrote:
Do you feel the same way about music?
No, quite the opposite. I do, however, tend to prefer instrumental music.
Interesting.I'm a bit hesitant to ask.
What do you think of John Miles and 'Music was my first love'?

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Harbal
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Re: What is poetry?

Post by Harbal » Mon May 09, 2016 7:25 pm

marjoram_blues wrote:
Interesting.I'm a bit hesitant to ask.
What do you think of John Miles and 'Music was my first love'?
I think it's a bit over the top but, otherwise, it's just a run of the mill pop song. Why were you hesitant to ask?

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