TV Propaganda

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mickthinks
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by mickthinks » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:52 pm

I agree. I want to add a point about 'independence'. I've heard people talk about the need for information to gathered and promulgated by be agencies which are 'independent'. There's some truth in this idea, but the next question is; is it possible for an agency to completely independent? Some would say that the BBC is less independent of the UK government than News International is, and in a way they are right. But News International (prop. Rupert Murdoch), being a commercial operation, is totally dependent on capitalist markets and investors. So to ensure a source of reliable and trusted info about health, the economy, etc. would we be better off privatising the BBC in order to make it 'independent'? I think not. It seems clear to me that, the more commercially driven the media company, the more of a mouthpiece for the International Fat Cat Capitalists' Party it must be.

Or, in other more graphic and shamelessly sensationalist words, watching Fox or Sky is like voting Murdoch for World President.

Mick

karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:18 pm

I'd like to throw in my one and a half cents on t.v., seeing as how it is one of my least favorite things in this world. I'm an american, and I'm sick of watching my country come home and smother it's own mind's eye in useless sitcom and sports rubbish. There's a song I like to quote that say's "there's a war going on for your mind, if you are thinking you are winning." why are you winning? because your brain is just like any other part of you, when you don't use it you lose it, but if you work with it you will make it strong. Do we use it? nope. Most people spend their day at work Wishing they were at home, and when they get home they don't think, they watch! after about three hours of watching, they let some news group think for them. T.V. could have been great, but just like a lot of other things, money got in the way. Sitcoms, MTV, and commercials invent social pretenses, and news channels give us mental atrophy. A vicious cycle.

Pluto
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:46 pm

Yes exactly, I hear you both. I think we live in Universal Deceit times, we see the world through a keyhole, we don't know the half of it and even the BBC is not going to open the door. The way I've been programmed, I have to try to shake it off in order to see anew. Picasso spoke of learning to think and paint like a child again. Not saying I want to think like a child but can understand his idea of shedding the uniform especially made.

karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:58 pm

Children are undeveloped, unlearned, and naive by definition, but they are also untouched by social pretense and governmental propaganda. Today reminds me more and more the story "1984", or "a clockwork orange". Kids are so involved in superficial nonsense that they are so far away from themselves, they are unfamiliar with what they are capable of if they just think for themselves. All due to T.V. in my opinion. They dress, act, and try to think like their "heroes", like MTV pop stars.

Pluto
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:42 am

This is exactly it. 1984 is absolutely superb. What a book. I myself can't help but be reminded of it. It's prophetic. And again your right, the heroes, mtv, movie stars, all nonsense, emptyness. As you mention mtv this station is empty of vision, it is a totally visionless, reflecting a deeper wider problem. Hence money gold and cyborgs chatting about the accumulation of wealth and modern furniture as the main deal. Empty. We should be able to pity them, but it's too early.

But this is tv. Programmes program. Capitalism is not a tree designed by god it's an ideology constructed like Fascism and communism. So the apparatus must constantly bombard the individual with its values, philosophy, etc. This is my problem, it's not democracy when everything coming out of the box promotes the system it exists under. We think we are free but we really are controlled quite considerably. Through propaganda. Culture is Propaganda. Depressingly society is the cage.

karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:07 am

Programmes program is a perfect way of putting it, probably the best word smithing I've heard all week.
You also have a great point about capitalism. It is incapable of surviving on it's own like a living plant, it must wage war for it's existence. No matter what the system of thought is that we decide to follow, we are human souls incapable of forming a systematic pattern of thought. We are meant to FLOW. When we submit to any pattern, when we bring it into being, it will try to enslave us and become a forced symbiote of thought. Bruce lee was a brilliant under appreciated man. He talked about fighting, but anything that brings you to enlightenment can be considred art, and anything that's art represents life itself. He said that you must learn the system to better sharpen your tools, then forget everything you learned so that your tools flow like water as we are fluid souls. martial arts are systems, learn them, master them, let them bring you closer to yourself, than forget them before they take over your actions. The same applies for systems of thought. We must develop them and let them help us progress, and then move on before they consume us. Take what is useful, then forget everything and act on instinct.

artisticsolution
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by artisticsolution » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:27 pm

Pluto wrote:The first link is horrendous propaganda for lots of reasons.
Hi Pluto,

Could you list the reasons why you think the first link is propaganda? Which side do you think is spouting the propaganda? It is unclear to me because it sounds like 2 sides of an argument, to me. I must be missing something.

karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:28 pm

In this link, it is obvious that the news group is spouting propaganda. "Fox noise", "Sky", and the like are all about one sided arguments. If you watch fox news(noise), you will see nothing but reports of things that don't matter. When they do report on something important they report in a way that makes everyone think that if they don't think a certain way than they must be "with the terrorists", or "unpatriotic". That interview was meant to a biased humiliation of said interviewed party, and they got owned.

Pluto
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:48 pm

Artistic Solution - It is Propaganda for lots of reasons, those reasons go right to the heart of power. If people did not receive a constant dose of it they may start to think independently and or differently and nobody knows what that might be or entail, it could be dangerous and threaten the order of things. A communications machine the size of SKYNEWS must propagandize in order to exist. If it's not pushing THE agenda it wouldn't be there. So the fact that it exists and is accepted means its delivering propaganda. This is the society we live in.

The clip itself is a media corporation talking to a person about you know what. One represents established order the other contradicts that order. The contradictor is brought on and shown in full colour what an idiot he is, this is the idea, but with this clip it doesn't work and cracks start to appear, that's why I like it.

Propaganda has many faces - read Edward Bernay's small book of the same title. Propagate a reality and crush opposition.

Sorry I didn't write a list, it's late. I'll try again later.

artisticsolution
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:32 am

Hi karl and pluto,

Yes, I realize fox news is mostly propaganda. The reason that I believe this is because most of the news I have seen on Fox only gives one side... or... allows the oppositions point of view but only from a less intelligent person who does not have the skills of debate...(so they end up looking the fool and who wants to follow a fool. i.e.propaganda)

I have not watched sky news before so I am sure you understand what is the norm for that channel. However, from this clip, I cannot determine that the journalist or sky news was trying to crush her opposition or resorting to propaganda tactics.

In fact, since she was less skilled in her verbal ability she ended up making her opposition's point stronger. So to me, having only seen this clip and nothing else from skynews, I would have to say it shows how fair and balanced they can be. I would expect all reporting to be like this in order to get to truth. On FOX news this clip would not even have aired! In fact I have never even heard an argument like this on any news channels in the states! You would have to do some research to find news like this here. So I thank you for providing this clip.

So, this was not propaganda to me. Both sides were given and his side was more articulate and skilled which if we were being truthful about this one clip...shows more propaganda in favor of his agenda than that of hers or the stations. Now I am sure this was not their intention but you can't call this clip propaganda. It wasn't. It was free speech at it's best (or at least the best that humanity has to offer.)

karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:41 pm

you do make a good point. I think then I should rephrase. This was "attempted" propaganda. This interview was intended to be something but verbal craftsmanship did prevail. Though you do have to look at the fact that most people that watch a certain news group, you've seen fox news so you know what I mean, will not take to this man's rhetoric. They are on a bandwagon so to speak, and will only think this man is nuts for not having an opinion that is along the lines of what has been broadcast. News groups today have an almost Hitler like ability to manipulate the majority into thinking a certain way, much like the children in "1984".

Pluto
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:18 pm

I say the clip is propaganda because I see SKYNEWS as propaganda model supreme. But if you don't know the show then I guess it would seem like a guy getting one over on the newscaster. I showed the clip because it's unique, you don't often see that. With this post I wanted to talk about television as propaganda and thought this would be a good starter. For me all news on tv is suspect and naturally ideologically driven. We don't know what kind of world we're living in and the arbiters of news don't help with clarification but mystification and worse.

karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:16 am

I think there's probably like 12 journalists in the world that take the responsibility of their job seriously. lol :roll:
Sky is like a mirrored image of fox news. I think fox is worse though...

Pluto
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:18 am

Fox is bad yeah. But because it's obviously so and becoming so in most peoples minds it's in a way not as dangerous as the cunning sneaky bastardo that dresses in sheep's clothing. We are you're trusted, respectable friends, see how we present ourselves - embrace us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0I78YPSKpU See the difference, the music jingle, the set design, WE can see through the charade, it's power is neutralised, yet we can't see through current news shows because we ARE what it IS in a way. I am the values and pizazz that is SKYNEWS so to me it's normal life.

This is a gap in Propaganda it has a shelf-life, sell-by-date. It has to be current and embody the spirit of the times. This is what traps you. Take the spirit of the times, values, ideas about the world and weave a cage of iron where the only escape from it is to buy and become it.

Pluto
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:15 pm


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