TV Propaganda

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karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:23 pm

WOW! excellent link! I've never known he was such a blunt hack... He just outright says that he was trying to manipulate america... Thanks a lot for the link!

Pluto
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:09 pm

I like how he says 'television' - it's hardly pronounced.

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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:04 am


karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:59 am

He's teaching the children only to be brave to something smaller than you, or something that is locked up. That was the most disgusting thing I've seen all week, of course I'm bias, I have a certain inexplicable love of cats ;)

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Psychonaut
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Psychonaut » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:01 am

You're right you are biased; you didn't see the 'hidden' message at all.

At the end the child chides the Bee because the koran says 'he who locks up a cat and does not feed it is evil and will go to hell', "if you carry on this course you will surely go to hell".

Israel has the Palestinians locked into a small place. Do you know why Hamas renewed its missile campaign after neither side could come to an agreement for renewing the ceasefire agreement?

It is because Israel cut the aid-lines that provide them with basic necessities such as food.

One must assume that if the koran calls those who treat cats that way 'evil', then by extention those who treat humans that way are also 'evil'. I would tend to agree.

I do not condone in any way shape or form the treatment of those animals; but it really wasn't that bad and the cats looked unharmed and relatively unphased.

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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:14 am

yeah, good point. I do think that isreal is doing a mighty poor job of representing the christian world.

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Psychonaut
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Psychonaut » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:29 am

Is that a sly dig at Judaism?

karl_creech
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:40 am

Not really, just it's representation. I'd say the same for any religious representation to the masses. :roll:

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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:43 am

Every great religion started out pure, but the chinese telephone is still a plague no matter how strong our cellular towers get.

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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Pluto » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:46 pm

It's not about SIDES! - I am just showing Propaganda as it exists in all its many forms. I am saying let's have a look at Propaganda as it exists on television.

Of course Israel is the barbaric aggressor - Hamas defending. The situation there is appalling.

And yes the cats seem to enjoy it.

The thing is how Propaganda starts - at an early age - with cartoons, etc. It would be nice and actually very refreshing to see something on the television that wasn't politically motivated or in some way empty of persuasion and ideology, really, this would be impressive, what would it look like. This is the kind of paintings I'm trying to make, empty of the dark crap - simple surface. Instead of being projected at, YOU can project onto and into it. Of course it's not a blank canvas it has a framework (the image) a framework to frame the thinking and feeling.

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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by karl_creech » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:08 pm

It was just a side note. :wink:

T.V. was probably pure for about a year. It was going to be just another fad when it first came out, remember. Money got involved, and communication turned into propaganda. I'm scared for the internet.

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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:59 pm

karl_creech wrote:
T.V. was probably pure for about a year. It was going to be just another fad when it first came out, remember. Money got involved, and communication turned into propaganda. I'm scared for the internet.

I feel the same way Karl, only I don't think it is only about money. It is also about control. I do believe people mean well when they try to control things (whether for money or for the benefit of others and themselves) however things tend to get complicated very quickly and usually end up backfiring in a negative way. For example, Amod wants to keep the forum nice and tidy by moving posts to were he thinks would be more efficient for himself and forum members. But he has only created more clutter by having copies of the same thing in different places (I am speaking mostly about the thread "ladies and gentlemen take you partners for the dance" in the intro section and now in the gender section) and by having subsections of threads titles "moved."

I think it's interesting how people try to knock themselves out trying to control....don't get me wrong...I am not immune to this human trait. It's just at this point in my life I can see how futile this behavior is and how entrenched we are in it's illusion(although I can't seem to escape it's clutches.) Let's face it...the more we control the more we encourage people to unknowingly become controlled mindless robots.



Oddly enough I believe this concept applies to propaganda also. I believe we need more propaganda, not less, because I feel what needs to happen is for people to learn how to tell the difference. If we control the amount of propaganda shown on tv, people will not learn to tell the difference when they are viewing propaganda or truth and will be more inclined to fall for propaganda hook, line and sinker. However, if we teach people how to spot propaganda and why it is propaganda, then we can starve the beast/propaganda out of existence, so to speak.

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Psychonaut
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Psychonaut » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:30 pm

TV has been propoganda from the beginning, it was a continuation of the fine cinematic tradition.

I agree that people should be made aware of how propoganda works, but I'm not sure that this requires more [deliberate & intentional] propoganda?

IS THIS PROPOGANDA?

artisticsolution
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:16 pm

Psychonaut wrote:TV has been propoganda from the beginning, it was a continuation of the fine cinematic tradition.

I agree that people should be made aware of how propoganda works, but I'm not sure that this requires more [deliberate & intentional] propoganda?

IS THIS PROPOGANDA?
Hi Psy,

I have been enjoying your posts around the forum, thanks!

Yes, this is propaganda. It is everywhere. My point is that if society knew propaganda can be deliberate and intentional (because if we are honest we do it deliberately AND unknowingly everyday of our lives.) There is no getting around it.

That is why if we were able to accept propaganda as a 'fact' instead of something a few of us think (wrongly) we are impervious to, we could begin to stand back and see the difference. We could be aware of our control over it and not it's control over us. The problem is that we feel we are over confident in our ability to see truth and this is how we can unwittingly be fooled.

This also ties into what I wrote to Effie in another thread about the saying, "you can't con an honest man." We want so much to control the world but when we do we are unknowingly perpetuating a whole generation of people who can't think for themselves and thus "need to be controlled". So when we try to ban things (like propaganda) for people's own good, we unknowingly keep people stupid, which in turn makes us feel we have to control them (for our own benefit as well as theirs.) It is a vicious cycle.

Instead, I believe we should make a popular game out of spotting propaganda and also knowing the intricacies of what is harmful propaganda and what is simply a suggestions for health, safety, creativity, etc. Also, there is no problem of choosing to believe propaganda if you are aware of it's presence as everyone should have to right to believe what they want in a free society.

I feel Amod would benefit more by explaining to the person why he feels they have posted in the wrong spot and allow them a chance to defend their post based on his recommendation. I think if he did this he would be 'teaching' someone how to post 'properly' or , at the very least, they would enlighten him to a misunderstanding he might have had. Either way it is a learning experience for both (cooperation) and a direction toward truth. But all this moving of posts and making subsections and categories duplicating posts only takes up space with very little (if any) added benefit to the forum. Same with propaganda, if people were made aware of it's presence and how to identify it , we would not need to worry about it presence. It would be benign.

Does that make sense?

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Psychonaut
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Re: TV Propaganda

Post by Psychonaut » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:50 pm

I agree that propoganda is ubiquitous. Even the most basic of stories is propoganda: It describes the world as it is viewed by the author, and attempts to promote it. There is no escaping the inherent biases.

I do not believe in objective truths, but I do believe that well-developed and well-rounded people will tend to agree ("great minds think alike; fools seldom differ").

I agree fully about how people are kept stupid, and that people should be armed to see propoganda. However, I think there is a distinction to be drawn between those things which deliberately warp people's perspective and have this as their main intent, and those things which simply artfully convey the perspective of the creator (for a start the latter will often lay its cards on the table, and so deliberately arms its 'victims' against itself, whereas the former does everything it can to deny its bias). In my proportionate news thread I was quite clear that bias cannot be avoided, but that we can hug close to the warmth of objectivity even if we cannot step into the flame. Anyhoo, I've talked too much about the method of distinction and not enough about the reason for it.. There is limited airtime, there are limited airwaves, and limited space in the newstands, in the art galleries, on the library shelves. If there is a choice to be made between wolves in sheep's clothing and sheep in wolve's clothing then I think we must always favour the presence of the latter (though there is perhaps always some room for the former. When doing a high school project I appreciated the fact that I could get 'Mein Kampf' from the local library).

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