the framework of desire

What is art? What is beauty?

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Advocate
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the framework of desire

Post by Advocate »

•When you're in pain you always want respite but never want pleasure.
•When you're at rest you sometimes want pleasure and never want pain.
•When you're in pleasure you want nothing.
san
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:47 pm

Re: the framework of desire

Post by san »

What if pain brings one pleasure? Then one seeks pain understanding that the cause of their pleasure will be the pain. Furthermore, when in pain they are guided by pleasure (which I have problems with philosophically, but let's assume that in this situation the person is guided by pleasure and desire.) and thus seek pain. Respite becomes their enemy as they know respire will take away the pain and thus take away their pleasure.

Furthermore, humans are rational creatures, we can ration our desires to be anything. There is nothing that determines a singular desire of all humans, but rather each individual person can reason their own desires through pain to reach their supposed causal pleasure.

What about the diminishing return of pleasure? If one is in a state of pleasure, say eating a popsicle, sure they don't want anything per se (ignoring the nag of another popsicle when this temporary pleasure is over that rests in the back on the mind) but when one seeks this pleasure of a popsicle again, the pleasure is less than the first experience eating the popsicle. It's the policy of diminishing returns of pleasure. It comes to a point where you are in a state of pleasure and yet you desire the original pleasure, similar to nostalgia. One might be in a state of pleasure and desire different pleasure.

This also supposes that desire is the opposite of pain, but desire could come from neutrality, boredom, and depression, for lack of a better term, not just an escape from pain.

Also, I'm curious, how does desire blend with aesthetics? is aesthetics based in desire? How does desire relate to aesthetics?
popeye1945
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Re: the framework of desire

Post by popeye1945 »

san wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:10 pm What if pain brings one pleasure? Then one seeks pain understanding that the cause of their pleasure will be the pain. Furthermore, when in pain they are guided by pleasure (which I have problems with philosophically, but let's assume that in this situation the person is guided by pleasure and desire.) and thus seek pain. Respite becomes their enemy as they know respire will take away the pain and thus take away their pleasure.
Furthermore, humans are rational creatures, we can ration our desires to be anything. There is nothing that determines a singular desire of all humans, but rather each individual person can reason their own desires through pain to reach their supposed causal pleasure.

What about the diminishing return of pleasure? If one is in a state of pleasure, say eating a popsicle, sure they don't want anything per se (ignoring the nag of another popsicle when this temporary pleasure is over that rests in the back on the mind) but when one seeks this pleasure of a popsicle again, the pleasure is less than the first experience eating the popsicle. It's the policy of diminishing returns of pleasure. It comes to a point where you are in a state of pleasure and yet you desire the original pleasure, similar to nostalgia. One might be in a state of pleasure and desire different pleasure.
This also supposes that desire is the opposite of pain, but desire could come from neutrality, boredom, and depression, for lack of a better term, not just an escape from pain. Also, I'm curious, how does desire blend with aesthetics? is aesthetics based in desire? How does desire relate to aesthetics?
I believe when speaking of people taking pleasure from pain, one is talking about abnormal psychology. It would be almost impossible for a layman to understand such behaviors. As Spinoza pointed out we are motivated by three things, pain, pleasure, and desire. This recipe seems almost to simple but, consider these variables through the many combinations and quantities of add mixtures, and we see it can get really complex. I am at a bit of a loss pondering pleasure from pain but I believe it a mistake to believe that pain is the opposite of desire. Desire itself it seems to me is something akin to hunger, a need to be fulfilled or a yearning, somewhere between pain and pleasure, the add mixture. Neutrality is a place devoid of desire, pain or pleasure, but apparently, according to Schopenhauer, neutrality can be gained through the contemplation of art, as a method of escaping the control of the blind will. Desire relating to aesthetics is the seed of creativity, the desire to create something beautiful, enjoying art is the desire to experience beauty, for beauty is the essence of being.
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