Art and truth

What is art? What is beauty?

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Art and truth

Post by Terrapin Station »

Janoah wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:42 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:47 am
At any rate, what folks would be referring to is just that something about the art, re what it's "communicating" on an abstract level, resonates with the consumer--it seems on-target in its observations, its impressions, its commentary, its criticism, etc.
pornography, for example, also resonates with consumers.
Not sure what the point is there, but okay.
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Re: Art and truth

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psycho wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:30 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:35 pm
psycho wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:14 pm

For me, "Truth" is an approximation to reality and this is an insurmountable limit by design.

I do not think that Art would be a sum of effectiveness where the importance of the idea, the intention when expressing it, the ability to translate it, the artistic ability, the aesthetic conceptions, etc. of an artist result in a work of art. The mind is an opaque box and we only see its products.


The observer reacts or not to the work.

If Picasso had been a recluse who never expressed anything outside of his paintings and sculptures. A complete stranger whose entire work would have been hidden in a basement. When you went down to that basement for the first time and without knowing anything about the artist, would you have considered his work as a work of art?
Yes truth is an approximation to reality and nobody can know the limits of reality.
I would not have considered Picasso's paintings and sculptures works of art because I would not have been familiarised with the idioms Picasso employed. I'd have appreciated George Stubbs's or Degas's horse paintings immediately as works of art.

Everybody who wants to understand works of art, including those within popular culture, has to learn the idiom. Musically, it is likely that babies respond to rhythm and tone, and perhaps certain intervals increase dopamine levels. The visual arts however are more suited to symbolism and other means of conveying conceptual meanings.
I understand that an approach to the concepts that nurture a particular artist makes it easier to distinguish subtleties in their work. But if his work doesn't seduce with the promise of an interesting and aesthetic idea, no further explanation will make you find it of value.

Perhaps it is unfounded but I suppose that if you looked at the works of Picasso in their chronological order and you would be warned about the plastic orientation in art, before he made his appearance, you would appreciate his exploration even if you would never previously have known a word of his intentions.

But it's just my opinion. :)
I agree an idiom can be learned and can be deliberately taught. For some reason it was easier for me to appreciate impressionists than cubists and abstract much of which remains beyond my ken.
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Janoah
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Re: Art and truth

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Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:52 pm
Not sure what the point is there, but okay.
to make it even more confusing.., "All that glisters is not gold"
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Re: Art and truth

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Janoah wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:49 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:52 pm
Not sure what the point is there, but okay.
to make it even more confusing.., "All that glisters is not gold"
Are you denigrating pornography then?
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Re: Art and truth

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Terrapin Station,
I don't whitewash vices
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Re: Art and truth

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Janoah wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:42 pm Terrapin Station,
I don't whitewash vices
I don't consider porn at all immoral. In fact, my view is pretty much the oppposite. I think it's a very good thing.
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Re: Art and truth

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when the monkey turned into Human, the first thing she did was put on her pants. What does Darwin say about reverse evolution?
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Re: Art and truth

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Janoah wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:01 pm when the monkey turned into Human, the first thing she did was put on her pants. What does Darwin say about reverse evolution?
Evolution is just change. It doesn't denote progress. Progress is a value judgment and is thus subjective.
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Re: Art and truth

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OK. When a person takes off his pants, does this mean that he turns into a monkey in the good sense of the word?
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Re: Art and truth

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Janoah wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:11 pm OK. When a person takes off his pants, does this mean that he turns into a monkey in the good sense of the word?
Do you have a hang-up about sex maybe? (And being naked?)
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Re: Art and truth

Post by psycho »

Janoah wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:22 am
psycho wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:59 pm
In this case I was using Truth as a synonym for knowledge.
for science it can be.

The question remains, what is truth in art? It is clear that in art, truth is not an approximation to reality, (although there was such a trend in art, "socialist realism").
Truth in art can be an ambiguous subject.

You mean if the artist is faithful to his intention? If one really try to manipulate society to achieve fame or wealth?

If the artist expresses a truth?

The truth (concepts that have a supposed correspondence with some part of reality) in art does not necessarily have to be social. Art has tried to transmit aesthetic, religious, psychological, moral concepts. And more.

I do not distinguish that in art the idea of ​​truth is different than in science. Science is the system we use to get knowledge. Art, in my opinion, cannot be lacking in concepts that have a correspondence with reality. This does not mean that art is restricted and that creative flight is subject to reality. Art is part of reality.
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Re: Art and truth

Post by Janoah »

psycho wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:39 pm
I do not distinguish that in art the idea of ​​truth is different than in science.
the point is that it is really different.

what is in general correspondence to reality in Chopin's nocturne.

one can rather ditch art with concepts, art is not didactics, but rather spontaneity.
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Re: Art and truth

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Janoah wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:01 pm when the monkey turned into Human, the first thing she did was put on her pants. What does Darwin say about reverse evolution?
I shudder at Janoah's ugly turn of phrase . However.

Sex is a powerful disruptor of social life. That is why it is always in some measure controlled by law or by taboo. There has never been a truly permissive society. Sexual activity is often hidden from view by the simple expedient of covering the primary genitals, and this applies especially to erect penises.
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Re: Art and truth

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Belinda wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:03 pm Sexual activity is often hidden from view by the simple expedient of covering the primary genitals,
that's why I wrote that when a human became human, the first thing he did was put on his pants, this, by the way, is also said in the Bible.
So what's ugly?!
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Re: Art and truth

Post by psycho »

Janoah wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:39 am
psycho wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:39 pm
I do not distinguish that in art the idea of ​​truth is different than in science.
the point is that it is really different.

what is in general correspondence to reality in Chopin's nocturne.

one can rather ditch art with concepts, art is not didactics, but rather spontaneity.
Chopin's art is his handling of my neurotransmitters. But I suspect that he manipulated his creation in an attempt to make the listener move in correspondence with concepts of this reality. Joy, sadness, nostalgia, etc.
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