Please Support FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

[chaz wyman]

It is a day to remember when the first World War officially ended. The 11th hour of the 11th month in the year 1918.

It also encompasses remembering the men and women who died in World War 2 and the Vietnam War. To remember these people who fought for Freedom. For us.

To lessen that is an act of ignorance and disrespect. If anyone who participated in any of these wars and is reading this, I say sincerely,


I thank you.

and the rest is bull shit.

No you are bullshit. You are shitting on their memory.
Their sacrifice means nothing if people are being imprisoned for expressing an opinion or expressing artistic licence. Silencing an opinion is never to be justified.

Poppy Day has nothing to do with ending war, or fighting for freedom of speech it seems, and is verified by your comments.

Poppy Day is a means by which society continues to justify warfare by glorifying the death of millions of young men few of whom knew all the reasons they were in the fight.
Whilst the elites of society quietly bow their heads at the Cenotaph in respect thinking about the last war, they are busy planning the next one, and the deaths of all those that are yet to die.

You should be ashamed of yourself!

[chaz wyman]

I strongly disagree.

That action of burning the poppy on the 11th day of November, was one of disrespect.

A smart ass kid who knows nothing about the atrocities of war.

Neither do you , it seems.

[bus2bondi]

It is a day to remember when the first World War officially ended. The 11th hour of the 11th month in the year 1918.

It also encompasses remembering the men and women who died in World War 2 and the Vietnam War. To remember these people who fought for Freedom. For us.

To lessen that is an act of ignorance and disrespect. If anyone who participated in any of these wars and is reading this, I say sincerely,


I thank you.

and the rest is bull shit.

hi rvm, thank you for explaining that to me. the only thing i can associate with poppies in my recollection and experience is in 'The Wizard of Oz' movie, there is a field of poppies and Dorothy falls asleep in them before she gets to Emerald City. and i think poppies have something to with something in Northern Asia, but i can't remember what that was. and i remember something from when i was younger where people would wear poppies. it may have had something to do with Poppy Day.

i don't have anything against anyone who participated in these wars. where would i be now if they would not have sacrificed their lives? i could be somewhere starving to death with no options. the list goes on, i would rather be here than anywhere else and that is because of those who have sacrificed their lives.

however, i also understand some of the points that Chaz makes. especially the soldiers as unknowing victims themselves in many instances.

just one example being from a book i read once that in essence illustrated how most of these great powers (back then) were related and most of these wars are due to family squabbles and the like.

and like a great ocean wave rolling back from the beach, 'common folk' like us got sucked into it knowing not hither nor tither.

[reasonvemotion]

reasonvemotion wrote:

I strongly disagree.

That action of burning the poppy on the 11th day of November, was one of disrespect.

A smart ass kid who knows nothing about the atrocities of war.

CW wrote:

Neither do you , it seems.

Do you? Have you fought a war for your country?

[chaz wyman]

reasonvemotion wrote:

I strongly disagree.

That action of burning the poppy on the 11th day of November, was one of disrespect.

A smart ass kid who knows nothing about the atrocities of war.

CW wrote:

Neither do you , it seems.

Do you? Have you fought a war for your country?

I do not recognise "your country".

You have no ground upon which to criticise a kid for the same ignorance you share, was the point I was making.

Whatever you might think. This "smart ass kid" whom you have never met, and know nothing about, obviously feels strongly enough that he feels a common cause with the thousands of innocent people who have died in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other places that have suffered from the aggression of the Western Powers and obviously feels alienated from the society in which he finds himself.
You might think him stupid but his act is an expression of the freedom he has, and is essential to us all, to state his case in an artistic way. Your attitude is a betrayal of those the highest and most honourable freedoms, which are claimed by many to have been the result of that same 'sacrifice'.
You attitude also betrays the lie behind Poppy Day, which is a smokescreen for the glorifying of war and the justification on more and further wars of aggression against foreign countries upon whom we have not ultimate right, either morally, legally or politically.
If you really want to honour the dead, and claim their sacrifice, not as a glorification of the western fist against the rest of the world, not as a further glorification of war and white superiority, but as a bid for freedom of expression, then you have to join with me in unpacking this boy's act and coming to understand his reasoning and how it is that he feels this way.

[reasonvemotion]

My point is this.

You have not fought in a war and I have not, so neither of us truly know how these men and women would be affected by this person's gesture.

I see the point you are raising.

Let us have the 11th November as a day to remember.

It is not a day of glorification as you are suggesting how I interpret it. It is a day of mourning.

[chaz wyman]

My point is this.

You have not fought in a war and I have not, so neither of us truly know how these men and women would be affected by this person's gesture.

The people who are important here are dead.

Freedom of speech cannot be stilled by the risk of offending sensibilities. Otherwise no one would be able to say a thing for fear of upsetting someone.



I see the point you are raising.

Let us have the 11th November as a day to remember.

It is not a day of glorification as you are suggesting how I interpret it. It is a day of mourning.

That depends. But thanks for seeing the point.
Whilst I salute all that have died in war, and never wear a poppy on principle.

[bobevenson]

As Bob the Baptist, the new guru, the modern messiah and the wizard of Ouzo, I can tell you that the only reason wars are fought is that governments have the the satanic ability to conscript young men to do the fighting. If soldiers were hired and paid the going rate to fight wars, and could say "take this job and shove it" at a moment's notice, few if any wars would ever be fought. It's this institutional evil that gets everybody else off the economic hook, and allows them to live with themselves by saying, "Hey, I'm wearing a fucking poppy!"

[chaz wyman]

As Bob the Baptist, the new guru and the wizard of Ouzo, I can tell you that the only reason wars are fought is that governments have the the satanic ability to conscript young men to do the fighting. If soldiers were hired and paid the going rate to fight wars, and could say "take this job and shove it" at a moment's notice, few if any wars would ever be fought. It's this institutional evil that gets everybody else off the economic hook, and allows them to live with themselves by saying, "Hey, I'm wearing a fucking poppy!"

The trouble with this post is that when you start with the bullshit;" Bob the Baptist, the new guru and the wizard of Ouzo" -
I just switch off and go to the last line; "Hey I'm wearing a fucking poppy"

On second reading you are right for once.
Hey - we agree about something.

[bobevenson]

As Bob the Baptist, the new guru, the modern messiah and the wizard of Ouzo, I can tell you that the only reason wars are fought is that governments have the the satanic ability to conscript young men to do the fighting. If soldiers were hired and paid the going rate to fight wars, and could say "take this job and shove it" at a moment's notice, few if any wars would ever be fought. It's this institutional evil that gets everybody else off the economic hook, and allows them to live with themselves by saying, "Hey, I'm wearing a fucking poppy!"

The trouble with this post is that when you start with the bullshit;" Bob the Baptist, the new guru and the wizard of Ouzo" -
I just switch off and go to the last line; "Hey I'm wearing a fucking poppy"

On second reading you are right for once.
Hey - we agree about something.

Whenever I start off like that, it's always a sign that what follows is something you can take as divinely inspired prophecy.

[chaz wyman]

As Bob the Baptist, the new guru, the modern messiah and the wizard of Ouzo, I can tell you that the only reason wars are fought is that governments have the the satanic ability to conscript young men to do the fighting. If soldiers were hired and paid the going rate to fight wars, and could say "take this job and shove it" at a moment's notice, few if any wars would ever be fought. It's this institutional evil that gets everybody else off the economic hook, and allows them to live with themselves by saying, "Hey, I'm wearing a fucking poppy!"

The trouble with this post is that when you start with the bullshit;" Bob the Baptist, the new guru and the wizard of Ouzo" -
I just switch off and go to the last line; "Hey I'm wearing a fucking poppy"

On second reading you are right for once.
Hey - we agree about something.

Whenever I start off like that, it's always a sign that what follows is something you can take as divinely inspired prophecy.

Yes, and that is EXACTLY why is ignore it.

[bobevenson]

Hey - we agree about something.

Whenever I start off like that, it's always a sign that what follows is something you can take as divinely inspired prophecy.

Yes, and that is EXACTLY why is ignore it.

OK, so you're not interested in anything divinely inspired, but that's your problem, not mine!

[chaz wyman]

Hey - we agree about something.

Whenever I start off like that, it's always a sign that what follows is something you can take as divinely inspired prophecy.

Yes, and that is EXACTLY why is ignore it.

OK, OK, so you're not interested in anything divinely inspired, but that's not my problem.

You misunderstand - there is no such thing as divine inspiration, and you just look like a dick for claiming it.

What you think is divine is just stuff out of your own head. The likelihood that god has chosen you amongst the rest of the world as the conduit to the world of economics to suggest Property as a monetary standard and the rest of the stuff you claim as divinely inspired beggars belief.

If god wanted to tell the world that we all need to accept Evensonomics, he would probably inspire someone that others would listen to like Ben Bernanke, or Wolfowitz.

[Wootah]

England seems a pretty awful place to live these days.

[reasonvemotion]

Why?