Why do people hate?

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ForgedinHell
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Why do people hate?

Post by ForgedinHell »

Before I came on this site, I noticed a lot of bigotry and hate. The bigotry and hate, which is still substantial, includes Jew-bashing, gay-bashing, women-bashing, America-bashing, and the list is not exhaustive. People have started threads on here claiming that all Jews are racists. People have written on here that the Jews control the entire US economy. They have claimed that gays are more likely to be child molesters. Some have stated women cannot reason like men, and should not even try. Each of these statements, and many more, are purely irrational. The writer makes the statement not because he or she has any evidence to back up the claim, but because of pure hatred for a group the person targets.

I am familiar with the ideas that we as human beings function by looking at other people as either being within our group, and thus deserving of respect, or they are beyond our group, and subhuman. However, it seems to me for an individual to focus hatred toward another group, along with the willingness to believe all sorts of nonsense about that group, that is not even remotely true, that the individual must be irrational. Hatred requires irrationalism. All hate groups are illegitimate simply because their ideas are factually false. There is no rational reason to hate blacks, Jews, atheists, gays, Israelis, Americans, Europeans, Christians, etc. Each of us is a human being, and we all share the same problems in life. We are literally bounded by our mutual struggle to survive and find meaning in this life. Why anyone would decide to make life even more difficult than it already is for some targeted group is beyond me.

Anyone have any thoughts on where this hatred comes from? Are the haters happy in their lives? Have they been taught to hate from an early age? Does their hatred make them feel superior and make up for deep-seated feelings of inferiority? Why are some people so attracted to targeting another group of people with pure irrational hate?
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Grendel
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by Grendel »

Presumably hatred is an evolutionary survival mechanism, there would have been people in our early development that felt more hate than us, less hate than us, and no hate at all, people with our level of hate survived, others died out. So this level of hate best adapted us for our envirionment when we evolved as a species. Why do we hate now? It's how we're made, we're a hating species.
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ForgedinHell
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by ForgedinHell »

Grendel wrote:Presumably hatred is an evolutionary survival mechanism, there would have been people in our early development that felt more hate than us, less hate than us, and no hate at all, people with our level of hate survived, others died out. So this level of hate best adapted us for our envirionment when we evolved as a species. Why do we hate now? It's how we're made, we're a hating species.
If it were true that we are simply evolved "hating machines," then why is it not everyone engages in this type of behavior? We also know it is dysfunctional at this point, and causes a lot of problems, including the occasional mass genocide. The recent shooting against the Sikhs in American, by a neo-nazi punk, that is simply destructive behavior that serves no useful purpose. Most people looked on the shooting as a horrible tragedy and our hearts went out to the victims and their families. I, therefore, put forth the notion that we also evolved into caring machines.
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Grendel
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by Grendel »

ForgedinHell wrote:
If it were true that we are simply evolved "hating machines," then why is it not everyone engages in this type of behavior? We also know it is dysfunctional at this point, and causes a lot of problems, including the occasional mass genocide. The recent shooting against the Sikhs in American, by a neo-nazi punk, that is simply destructive behavior that serves no useful purpose. Most people looked on the shooting as a horrible tragedy and our hearts went out to the victims and their families. I, therefore, put forth the notion that we also evolved into caring machines.

No-one said we were simply hating machines, just hate is one part of our make up. Cats aren't simply small creature torturing machines, but it is one component of there make up. Torturing small creatures serves no survival need for domestic cats, it is not dysfuntional and some cats engage in it more than others. It's still a part of their behavior from the past.

Caring is also part of animal nature, caring for the offspring, family, the herd. Often hatred is a component of caring, if there's two native tribes on the island and only enough food for one, butchering them is a way of caring for your tribe and hate is a great assistance when butchering.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

I guess we all need to look deeply and honestly into ourselves to find the answer.
Does the bully hate the victim? I don't know. I've never understood the pleasure bullies get out of what they do. Hitler's regime was one of bullies, and bullies were given a free rein. The KKK are bullies. Bullies are everywhere and so are their attendant grovelers who see bullying as strength when it is anything but. Not every vile facet of diverse humanity serves a useful purpose in every situation-we are a lot more complex than that. If you add psychopathy to the equation then you have a lethal concoction- or perhaps all bullies are psychopaths.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ForgedinHell
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by ForgedinHell »

Grendel wrote:
ForgedinHell wrote:
If it were true that we are simply evolved "hating machines," then why is it not everyone engages in this type of behavior? We also know it is dysfunctional at this point, and causes a lot of problems, including the occasional mass genocide. The recent shooting against the Sikhs in American, by a neo-nazi punk, that is simply destructive behavior that serves no useful purpose. Most people looked on the shooting as a horrible tragedy and our hearts went out to the victims and their families. I, therefore, put forth the notion that we also evolved into caring machines.

No-one said we were simply hating machines, just hate is one part of our make up. Cats aren't simply small creature torturing machines, but it is one component of there make up. Torturing small creatures serves no survival need for domestic cats, it is not dysfuntional and some cats engage in it more than others. It's still a part of their behavior from the past.

Caring is also part of animal nature, caring for the offspring, family, the herd. Often hatred is a component of caring, if there's two native tribes on the island and only enough food for one, butchering them is a way of caring for your tribe and hate is a great assistance when butchering.
Is it?

Here is the thing though. Every hateful bigot, without exception, believes in rubbish. They believe in things that even a child can see could not possibly be true. So, there seems to be a link between hatred and irrational belief. Now, any mind that adheres to irrational beliefs so willingly, its survival chances should diminish, especially in the modern age. Also, the hatred is more likely to bring on needless violence and blood shed, and that also has to diminish survival chances. That it is part of our "us/them" evolution, I do not doubt; however, we are not controlled by our genes, since our brains carry far more information that is stored in our DNA. We have the ability to reason, and bigotted hatred can only survive among those who toss their reasoning brain aside. There has not been a single prejudiced statement written on this forum that a thirteen-year-old kid couldn't debunk in minutes. My puzzlement is how we can be so smart, and yet, be so stupid?
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ForgedinHell
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by ForgedinHell »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:I guess we all need to look deeply and honestly into ourselves to find the answer.
Does the bully hate the victim? I don't know. I've never understood the pleasure bullies get out of what they do. Hitler's regime was one of bullies, and bullies were given a free reign. The KKK are bullies. Bullies are everywhere and so are their attendant grovelers who see bullying as strength when it is anything but. Not every vile facet of diverse humanity serves a useful purpose in every situation-we are a lot more complex than that. If you add psychopathy to the equation then you have a lethal concoction- or perhaps all bullies are psychopaths.
They are definitely bullies. But, they just don't randomly torment, they fixate on a certain group. It may be people of color, gays, Jews, Gypsies, but, whoever, it is, they will be demonized. The haters will believe things about the groups they target that even a fool would have a hard time believing. They allow some irrational belief system to take over their lives, and they use these irrational beliefs to justify their torment of a target group. How can anyone rationally hate blacks? I've never figured that one out. They will justify their hate by telling themselves that blacks are stupid, criminals, inferior animals, who deserve to be treated like scum. We even have records of Dutch hunters in Africa who would actually write down the black people they shot as if they were just shooting an animal for food. To them, black people were okay to shoot and kill for sport. No evolutionary changes have taken place in humans since then, at least not anything major. How this happens just seems strange as hell to me. How we can manage to shut down our hearts and minds to other living people and butcher them without thought or remorse.

I also bring it up because supposedly, philosophers are interested in the truth. And every form of bigotry, from anti-semitism, to sexism, to racism, to gay bashing, all of it, without exception is irrational. I would have thought before I came here that this forum would have little tolerance for such antics. And I'm not speaking of censoring, by prohibiting speech, but I am speaking of a group response where people would immediately, and without hesitation, make life so uncomfortable for irrational bigots, that they would leave. Instead, I see a lot of acceptance, for what has to be anti-philosophy, if philosophy is to be understood as a love of truth and wisdom. Even here, the cockroaches of humanity have managed to set up shop and infest the place with blind hatred.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

ForgedinHell wrote:
Grendel wrote:
ForgedinHell wrote:
If it were true that we are simply evolved "hating machines," then why is it not everyone engages in this type of behavior? We also know it is dysfunctional at this point, and causes a lot of problems, including the occasional mass genocide. The recent shooting against the Sikhs in American, by a neo-nazi punk, that is simply destructive behavior that serves no useful purpose. Most people looked on the shooting as a horrible tragedy and our hearts went out to the victims and their families. I, therefore, put forth the notion that we also evolved into caring machines.

No-one said we were simply hating machines, just hate is one part of our make up. Cats aren't simply small creature torturing machines, but it is one component of there make up. Torturing small creatures serves no survival need for domestic cats, it is not dysfuntional and some cats engage in it more than others. It's still a part of their behavior from the past.

Caring is also part of animal nature, caring for the offspring, family, the herd. Often hatred is a component of caring, if there's two native tribes on the island and only enough food for one, butchering them is a way of caring for your tribe and hate is a great assistance when butchering.
Is it?

Here is the thing though. Every hateful bigot, without exception, believes in rubbish. They believe in things that even a child can see could not possibly be true. So, there seems to be a link between hatred and irrational belief. Now, any mind that adheres to irrational beliefs so willingly, its survival chances should diminish, especially in the modern age. Also, the hatred is more likely to bring on needless violence and blood shed, and that also has to diminish survival chances. That it is part of our "us/them" evolution, I do not doubt; however, we are not controlled by our genes, since our brains carry far more information that is stored in our DNA. We have the ability to reason, and bigotted hatred can only survive among those who toss their reasoning brain aside. There has not been a single prejudiced statement written on this forum that a thirteen-year-old kid couldn't debunk in minutes. My puzzlement is how we can be so smart, and yet, be so stupid?

I had said previously on some other thread that education is the answer. It was ignored of course. Cliquey little group here. :roll:
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Grendel
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by Grendel »

ForgedinHell wrote:We have the ability to reason

True but are we reasoning before or after we do an action. Is it I have desire to do this, but my resaon tells me not to do it, so I won't, or I have a desire to do something, I go with my desire, then afterwards I think about it and provide a rational reason why I did it.
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ForgedinHell
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by ForgedinHell »

Grendel wrote:
ForgedinHell wrote:We have the ability to reason

True but are we reasoning before or after we do an action. Is it I have desire to do this, but my resaon tells me not to do it, so I won't, or I have a desire to do something, I go with my desire, then afterwards I think about it and provide a rational reason why I did it.
Most of the time, we feel first, and then try to justify. However, over the long term, we have more time to think and analyze, and that's when the more rational part of our brains are supposed to dominate. To believe in something completely irrational for an extended period of time, takes some effort. Have you ever been angry with someone who challenged a deeply held belief you had, only to end up thinking months later, "Crap, they were right?" I have. You may not want to admit being wrong right away, but over time, it's easier to see how one made a mistake. People who demonize a target group, especially for years, they have to foresake their ability to think and reason. It's bizarre to me why anyone would even want to do that.
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ForgedinHell
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by ForgedinHell »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:


I had said previously on some other thread that education is the answer. It was ignored of course. Cliquey little group here. :roll:


I agree with you. About the education part and the "cliquey" thing. Of course, I'm a "clique" of one lonely asshole, so I'm sure you didn't mean me.
Outsider
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by Outsider »

ForgedinHell wrote:Each of us is a human being, and we all share the same problems in life. We are literally bounded by our mutual struggle to survive and find meaning in this life. Why anyone would decide to make life even more difficult than it already is for some targeted group is beyond me.
Lets assume we all share the SAME problems in life, everyone trying to Create their own meaning, while some try to Find it.

Why do You Hate someone holding a view and meaning-to-life different from you, so much so you don't want this forum to give them any space to express their views?
Why do You have so much Hatred against people who do not agree with you, that you have to label them as hate-groups?
Why can't they create their meanings? Why can't you embrace "mutual struggle" without resorting to base physical violence and cheap shots of offering money at people? Why do you want to rub your money-power and such Hatred full of Snobbishness at others?
For example, Its not that I Hate homosexuals, but I Hate the Normalizing of it as if gay-marriage and real-marriage is the same thing. What is Marriage to you?
Name ONE thing that does not have Violence as its foundation? Name it. I challenge you.
Why do you Hate philosophers like Kant who were Realistic for saying so?
Why do You Hate the sufferings of others and Exclusively Privilege the death of jewish children alone? What makes the sufferings of others so dispensable over jewish children?

Where does this Hatred come from?
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John
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by John »

ForgedinHell wrote:I, therefore, put forth the notion that we also evolved into caring machines.
We could have evolved both characteristics: care for those whose genes you share but show hostility to those you don't (or don't so much). Most people care about their immediate family and parents are often willing to sacrifice themselves for their children, who they also share the most genetic material with, so in evolutionary terms it seems sensible.

Hostility may have been a mechanism developed in the competition for resources but like many evolutionary impulses they can eventually find themselves subservient to impulses derived from social and cultural conditioning and become less relevant. However, even in evolutionary terms organisms that were adapted to cooperation when it was more profitable to behave cooperatively would be at an advantage over those that favoured hostility so I doubt it's a simple as saying that it's an evolutionary throwback that is in our nature.
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ForgedinHell
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by ForgedinHell »

John wrote:
ForgedinHell wrote:I, therefore, put forth the notion that we also evolved into caring machines.
We could have evolved both characteristics: care for those whose genes you share but show hostility to those you don't (or don't so much). Most people care about their immediate family and parents are often willing to sacrifice themselves for their children, who they also share the most genetic material with, so in evolutionary terms it seems sensible.

Hostility may have been a mechanism developed in the competition for resources but like many evolutionary impulses they can eventually find themselves subservient to impulses derived from social and cultural conditioning and become less relevant. However, even in evolutionary terms organisms that were adapted to cooperation when it was more profitable to behave cooperatively would be at an advantage over those that favoured hostility so I doubt it's a simple as saying that it's an evolutionary throwback that is in our nature.
Mathematically, a group of mathematicians at Harvard proved that the attempt to explain altruistic acts based upon a genetic relationship is false. Think of Pat Tillman who left the NFL and joined the army after 9/11. Was he only defending his genetic relations? How many people will risk their lives to save a stranger at the site of a building on fire or a plane crash, etc.? Too many to be accounted for by some genetic kin theory. People are capable of performing heroic acts, and mass murder. No one is exactly sure why this is. But, the hateful people seem capable of behaving irrationally and adopting positions contrary to the evidence. That's what is strange.
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John
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Re: Why do people hate?

Post by John »

ForgedinHell wrote:Mathematically, a group of mathematicians at Harvard proved that the attempt to explain altruistic acts based upon a genetic relationship is false. Think of Pat Tillman who left the NFL and joined the army after 9/11. Was he only defending his genetic relations? How many people will risk their lives to save a stranger at the site of a building on fire or a plane crash, etc.? Too many to be accounted for by some genetic kin theory. People are capable of performing heroic acts, and mass murder. No one is exactly sure why this is. But, the hateful people seem capable of behaving irrationally and adopting positions contrary to the evidence. That's what is strange.
If your rejection of any evolutionary basis for altruism is to say that some Harvard mathematicians have proved it then you'll be able to cite the article so that I can decide for myself whether they've proven it. If they have I assume that will mean that it's not contested by any of their peers.

Besides, no one is arguing that any particular behaviour patterns are entirely influenced by our genes, merely that it may explain certain predispositions towards particular behaviour. Perhaps some people, like Pat Tillman, do not posses a particular disposition but that could be for a number of reasons either genetic or social.

However, you proposed that we developed a genetic predisposition towards caring and I was making the argument that we could have done so whilst also developed a disposition towards hostility that would not necessarily be contradictory.
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