lancek4 wrote:I have a decent job.
I marvel at the attitude of wishing to die rather than work.
It expresses a type of indolence. As if one should have more than what they have. Rebellious - which is admired to extremes now a days. (Not that I am not a rebel . ).
"Decent" - do you mean one you like?
Do other people have indecent jobs?
Ah ha! Yes - decnt in Ny sense, I guess , but there itis!
Decent- I like my job, it pas the bills, I am happy inb life. But thgis does not mean I stop myself seeking of life.
Bu some would rather complain and do what ever job they have shitily because they figure they deserve better.
lancek4 wrote:I have a decent job.
I marvel at the attitude of wishing to die rather than work.
It expresses a type of indolence. As if one should have more than what they have. Rebellious - which is admired to extremes now a days. (Not that I am not a rebel . ).
"Decent" - do you mean one you like?
Do other people have indecent jobs?
Ah ha! Yes - decnt in Ny sense, I guess , but there itis!
Decent- I like my job, it pas the bills, I am happy inb life. But thgis does not mean I stop myself seeking of life.
Bu some would rather complain and do what ever job they have shitily because they figure they deserve better.
Sadly the vast majority of working people all do indeed deserve better.
I'm lucky to have a partner who really loves her work, as I'm about fucked when it comes to my old job - even though it was very rewarding (not particularly financially).
I wonder if Typist would roll over in his grave to learn that money may not be everyone's motivating factor.
Autonomy, Mastery and Purpose. That exactly matches my engagement with Sculpture. These are their own rewards. I have not sold, nor do I expect or seek to sell a sculpture.
I was a pretty lazy middle class brat and naturally fell on hard times once I left the safety of home. I found the hard work I did to get out of that situation freeing.
I personally haven't found a job I didn't enjoy and whilst I have received welfare I do think that a person is better off working for their money than just receiving it.
I distinctly remember thinking that if life didn't go my way I could just exit anytime. I think it is far better fr me to stop such silly talk and get on with living and that means working.
Much of my transformation and ability to preservere I attribute to Jesus.
Wootah wrote:I was a pretty lazy middle class brat and naturally fell on hard times once I left the safety of home. I found the hard work I did to get out of that situation freeing.
I personally haven't found a job I didn't enjoy and whilst I have received welfare I do think that a person is better off working for their money than just receiving it.
I distinctly remember thinking that if life didn't go my way I could just exit anytime. I think it is far better fr me to stop such silly talk and get on with living and that means working.
Much of my transformation and ability to preservere I attribute to Jesus.
Whether working and getting pay, or being on the dole and finding things to do with the leisure time whilst having little money, I have never been in a position for long where I even had to think about 'ending it' (at least no due to work/leisure anyway).
I disagree entirely that you are better off working. Only a person with a lack of imagination who has trouble filling time would say such a thing. When a person's life is self directed, not working is not a problem. being out of work only becomes a problem is you are a follower. And only a person whose lack of imagination would make him need the continual direction of work would attribute such nonsense to a long dead 'prophet'.
Thankfully I enlightened myself to think without the need for the crutch of religion or any imaginary deity, having learned how to engage with the world in my own terms and not those dictated by religious instruction.
Wootah wrote:I was a pretty lazy middle class brat and naturally fell on hard times once I left the safety of home. I found the hard work I did to get out of that situation freeing.
I personally haven't found a job I didn't enjoy and whilst I have received welfare I do think that a person is better off working for their money than just receiving it.
I distinctly remember thinking that if life didn't go my way I could just exit anytime. I think it is far better fr me to stop such silly talk and get on with living and that means working.
Much of my transformation and ability to preservere I attribute to Jesus.
Chaz:And only a person whose lack of imagination would make him need the continual direction of work would attribute such nonsense to a long dead 'prophet'.
Thankfully ....
Wootah wrote:I was a pretty lazy middle class brat and naturally fell on hard times once I left the safety of home. I found the hard work I did to get out of that situation freeing.
I personally haven't found a job I didn't enjoy and whilst I have received welfare I do think that a person is better off working for their money than just receiving it.
I distinctly remember thinking that if life didn't go my way I could just exit anytime. I think it is far better fr me to stop such silly talk and get on with living and that means working.
Much of my transformation and ability to preservere I attribute to Jesus.
Chaz:And only a person whose lack of imagination would make him need the continual direction of work would attribute such nonsense to a long dead 'prophet'.
Thankfully ....
AS: Who or what are you being "thankful" to?
My late grandmother, my partner, my friends, the luck of having a halfway decent brain and curious outlook and questioning mind.
Being born in the West, shall I go on?
chaz wyman wrote:
C:My late grandmother, my partner, my friends, the luck of having a halfway decent brain and curious outlook and questioning mind.
Being born in the West, shall I go on?
But that tells us nothing of why you are more enlightened than wootah. It tells us only that you "believe" that your source of enlightenment is better than Wootahs. You do not give any reason why your late grandma, partner, friends or being born in the west, make you more "enlightened" than Wootah who attributes his thankfulness to Jesus. So you were enlightened by a different person than wootah, big deal. What makes your "People" any more capable of enlightening a person than wootahs? You are saying nothing here...you are only thinking on a simplistic aesthetic level. Same old...same old....me vs. them attitude. You might as well slap a cross on your forehead, call yourself "the church of Chaz", and get a tax exemption.
chaz wyman wrote:
C:My late grandmother, my partner, my friends, the luck of having a halfway decent brain and curious outlook and questioning mind.
Being born in the West, shall I go on?
But that tells us nothing of why you are more enlightened than wootah.
I was told what to believe just like Wootah, but I rejected it. I can't tell you how to think for yourself, I can only exhort you to Sapere Aude.
There are really no answers to why, only how.
It tells us only that you "believe" that your source of enlightenment is better than Wootahs.
It tells you nothing whatever about what I believe.
You do not give any reason why your late grandma, partner, friends or being born in the west, make you more "enlightened" than Wootah who attributes his thankfulness to Jesus.
No - you asked me who I had to thank, not why I was enlightened. Those listed gave the opportunity. If Wootah wants to cling on to a dead prophet, I cannot explain why, but he is much like millions of others that find shallow and superficial explanations satisfying. I do not.
So you were enlightened by a different person than wootah, big deal.
Der, no! That's the whole point. No one can enlighten you. That you have to do for yourself.
What makes your "People" any more capable of enlightening a person than wootahs? You are saying nothing here...you are only thinking on a simplistic aesthetic level.
Calm down or I won't play.
Same old...same old....me vs. them attitude. You might as well slap a cross on your forehead, call yourself "the church of Chaz", and get a tax exemption.
Well excuse me for being alive and having an opinion.
c:I was told what to believe just like Wootah, but I rejected it.
AS: How does rejecting one "belief" for another make a "belief" the truth?
C: I can't tell you how to think for yourself, I can only exhort you to Sapere Aude.
There are really no answers to why, only how.
AS: OKay, so "dare to be wise" ...again, you haven't told us why your rejecting one belief make another "belief" "the truth." Wootah believe Jesus is to thank for his "wisdom"...you believe the people in your life and where you are from is to thank for your "wisdom" Big whoop. You have said nothing. You are only stating your personal preference.
AS: It tells us only that you "believe" that your source of enlightenment is better than Wootahs.
C:It tells you nothing whatever about what I believe.
AS: Well at least this thought is a little more interesting if you mean it. So tell me, are you saying that you think wootah's enlightenment is better than yours or the same? If so then I stand corrected and will admit that I was wrong about thinking you "believe" your source of enlightenment is better than wootahs.
C:No - you asked me who I had to thank, not why I was enlightened.
AS: Yes, first I asked who or what you were thankful to ...based on what you wrote here you:
"Thankfully I enlightened myself to think without the need for the crutch of religion or any imaginary deity, having learned how to engage with the world in my own terms and not those dictated by religious instruction."
You explained who you thanked for your enlightenment:
"My late grandmother, my partner, my friends, the luck of having a halfway decent brain and curious outlook and questioning mind.
Being born in the West, shall I go on?"
.... then I went on to ask why you feel that makes you more enlightened than wootah.
C: If Wootah wants to cling on to a dead prophet, I cannot explain why, but he is much like millions of others that find shallow and superficial explanations satisfying. I do not.
AS: But you "cling on" to a dead grandmother and others . Why is your personal preference better than wootah clinging on to a dead prophet and the church?
C:Der, no! That's the whole point. No one can enlighten you. That you have to do for yourself.
AS: Why do you think you did this for yourself and wootah did not? How can you know that for sure? How can you know that wootah didn't come to the "enlightenment"by means of a "halfway decent brain, curious outlook and questioning mind"? I suggest we can have no such knowledge of Wootah based on a few of his comments in this forum.
C:Calm down or I won't play.
AS: I am not upset. I am only asking questions. If you don't want to answer it's alright with me.
artisticsolution wrote:c:I was told what to believe just like Wootah, but I rejected it.
AS: How does rejecting one "belief" for another make a "belief" the truth?
We are not talking about truth, but a belief. I don't do belief.
C: I can't tell you how to think for yourself, I can only exhort you to Sapere Aude.
There are really no answers to why, only how.
We have personal whys. That is enough.
AS: OKay, so "dare to be wise" ...again, you haven't told us why your rejecting one belief make another "belief" "the truth." Wootah believe Jesus is to thank for his "wisdom"...you believe the people in your life and where you are from is to thank for your "wisdom" Big whoop. You have said nothing. You are only stating your personal preference.
Wootah is not stating his own personal preference but the preference of tradition.
Sapere is not necessarily wisdom, but thinking. I dare to think otherwise. I dare to un-think. I dare to challenge.
The result of all this as Socrates found was that there is very little to know for sure.
Wootah has accepted the unacceptable and washed his hands of his own responsibility in his self determination.
AS: It tells us only that you "believe" that your source of enlightenment is better than Wootahs.
C:It tells you nothing whatever about what I believe.
AS: Well at least this thought is a little more interesting if you mean it. So tell me, are you saying that you think wootah's enlightenment is better than yours or the same?
`Do you want to review this sentence?
If so then I stand corrected and will admit that I was wrong about thinking you "believe" your source of enlightenment is better than wootahs.
You are confused.
C:No - you asked me who I had to thank, not why I was enlightened.
AS: Yes, first I asked who or what you were thankful to ...based on what you wrote here you:
"Thankfully I enlightened myself to think without the need for the crutch of religion or any imaginary deity, having learned how to engage with the world in my own terms and not those dictated by religious instruction."
You explained who you thanked for your enlightenment:
"My late grandmother, my partner, my friends, the luck of having a halfway decent brain and curious outlook and questioning mind.
Being born in the West, shall I go on?"
.... then I went on to ask why you feel that makes you more enlightened than wootah.
Come back to me when you understand what I mean by enlightened.
Owing it all to Jesus has no evidence of enlightenment.
C: If Wootah wants to cling on to a dead prophet, I cannot explain why, but he is much like millions of others that find shallow and superficial explanations satisfying. I do not.
AS: But you "cling on" to a dead grandmother and others . Why is your personal preference better than wootah clinging on to a dead prophet and the church?
I'm not clinging on to anything. I told you who I had to thank for who I am.
C:Der, no! That's the whole point. No one can enlighten you. That you have to do for yourself.
AS: Why do you think you did this for yourself and wootah did not? How can you know that for sure? How can you know that wootah didn't come to the "enlightenment"by means of a "halfway decent brain, curious outlook and questioning mind"? I suggest we can have no such knowledge of Wootah based on a few of his comments in this forum.
Why the fuck don't you ask him?
C:Calm down or I won't play.
AS: I am not upset. I am only asking questions. If you don't want to answer it's alright with me.
Saying; "Much of my transformation and ability to preservere I attribute to Jesus."
Is an idiotic statement. My grandmother was real. I know who my grandmother was, I have evidence that she existed. All the other things that I am thankful for I can point to. If that is not good enough for you then okay, that is your problem, but don't give me the "same old, same old" shit. Because that is just a reflection of your lack of ability to make any value judgement between fantasy and reality.
Not my problem.
C:Wootah is not stating his own personal preference but the preference of tradition.
AS: How do you know this? What I mean is, you can't know if wootah explored the same avenues that you explored or had the same thoughts. You cannot know what wootah knows, even if wootah tells you what he knows, you might not be able to understand him...and visa versa. You do not know if Wootah dared to think "otherwise" and then came to the conclusion "otherwise" was not all that, and that traditional values were better.
C:I dare to un-think.
AS: Is this the same as typists "aphilosophy"?
AS: It tells us only that you "believe" that your source of enlightenment is better than Wootahs.
C:It tells you nothing whatever about what I believe.
AS: Well at least this thought is a little more interesting if you mean it. So tell me, are you saying that you think wootah's enlightenment is better than yours or the same?
C:
`Do you want to review this sentence?
AS: Where did I lose you?
C:Saying; "Much of my transformation and ability to preservere I attribute to Jesus."Is an idiotic statement. My grandmother was real. I know who my grandmother was, I have evidence that she existed. All the other things that I am thankful for I can point to. If that is not good enough for you then okay, that is your problem, but don't give me the "same old, same old" shit. Because that is just a reflection of your lack of ability to make any value judgement between fantasy and reality.
Not my problem.
AS: So you are saying that Jesus was not real? Are you confusing Jesus with God? I think history shows there was a man named Jesus who actually lived. If you do not believe there was a man named jesus who lived and died then what reason do you have to believe any other book written by a human? What reason do you have to believe that Socrates lived and said things? Or Caesar? or anyone else in history who you did not personally know?
Or can you not separate the two (God and Jesus) for the sake of debate?
. ).
