Would you rather die than work?

For all things philosophical.

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chaz wyman
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by chaz wyman » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:36 pm

lancek4 wrote:
tbieter wrote:What is the source of Duszek's livelihood? Welfare? A husband?

I learned early that I would have to work to support myself. I loved practicing law. I was glad that I was alive and not dead.
The choice presented there is would I rather exist or not exist.

Work itself is necessary to have life.
I think the sentiment might be referring to a few items of our society more that mere 'work'.

The cullture of luxury. The 'you can have the life/career that you want' culture, which really has its basis in a 'albeit mach frie' (sp): work will set you free, as if freedom has to do with the luxury of not having to work, or, doing the work that one wants to (that one feels is worthy of them).
Arbeit macht frei - the welcoming slogan for the concentration camps; free being death.

duszek
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by duszek » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:49 pm

Nazis used the saying in a cynical way but they might have quoted someone else who meant it in a different sense.
Work can be good for you health, there is even occupational therapy (Beschäftigungstherapie).
Monks used to follow the good principle of "ora et labora" (pray and work) in order to stay in good shape.

Barbara keeps going even if attacked by hooligans, which is amazing. Not only social workers could watch and learn from her.

I am not going to give any private information about me on a public forum. Désolée.

chaz wyman
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by chaz wyman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:03 pm

duszek wrote:Nazis used the saying in a cynical way but they might have quoted someone else who meant it in a different sense.
Work can be good for you health, there is even occupational therapy (Beschäftigungstherapie).
Monks used to follow the good principle of "ora et labora" (pray and work) in order to stay in good shape.

Barbara keeps going even if attacked by hooligans, which is amazing. Not only social workers could watch and learn from her.

I am not going to give any private information about me on a public forum. Désolée.
Then you can't really support you weak claim about your life and work balance can you?

Arbeit has not made you Free; it has made you paranoid and secretive.

duszek
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by duszek » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:09 pm

Arbeit has made me resilient.
No degree of bullying has a chance to make me change my mind.

I also learn from Barbara. :D

chaz wyman
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by chaz wyman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:12 pm

duszek wrote:Arbeit has made me resilient.
No degree of bullying has a chance to make me change my mind.

I also learn from Barbara. :D

You must be really ashamed of your job.

lancek4
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by lancek4 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:20 pm

chaz wyman wrote:
lancek4 wrote:
tbieter wrote:What is the source of Duszek's livelihood? Welfare? A husband?

I learned early that I would have to work to support myself. I loved practicing law. I was glad that I was alive and not dead.
The choice presented there is would I rather exist or not exist.

Work itself is necessary to have life.
I think the sentiment might be referring to a few items of our society more that mere 'work'.

The cullture of luxury. The 'you can have the life/career that you want' culture, which really has its basis in a 'albeit mach frie' (sp): work will set you free, as if freedom has to do with the luxury of not having to work, or, doing the work that one wants to (that one feels is worthy of them).
Arbeit macht frei - the welcoming slogan for the concentration camps; free being death.
Yes; I was being a bit ironic. It reminds meof some analyses that suggest - freud, I think - the 'death drive'.

And also, in counter point, there is a proposition : production builds morale. Which in its context says that merely Doing something frees us from negativity.

Between these two I am sugesting that 'I would rather dies than work' points to both, but that when work is oriented upon my idea of what is worthy of my station is actually the former 'drive'.

lancek4
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by lancek4 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:43 pm

chaz wyman wrote:
duszek wrote:Arbeit has made me resilient.
No degree of bullying has a chance to make me change my mind.

I also learn from Barbara. :D

You must be really ashamed of your job.
Right to the point, Chaz.
Indeed, I must admit my life in the past 10 yrs has not gone the way I wished. I have had to do what I must. To me this is life, living.

Indeed, a good freind of mine is a surgeon. He make more money in a year than I have in my life time so far, and prabably more than ill make in my lifetime. On the outside he is a great person and gives as a good heart and acts like everything is great. He loves his work but I know cuz he's my friend that he is miserable. He is not free. His work, what he felt and feels is/ was worthy of him and that he has worked for, is/has granted him a type of freedom that is not really free. For he hates his life.

He is the epitoome of cultural sucess, but he does not feel sucessful.

Indeed, how about our current cultural/economic situation? How many people grudgingly take a lass paying job or choose to take the dole because they feel 'better' than because of pay?

What is freedom here? What is death ?

Barbara Brooks
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by Barbara Brooks » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:26 pm

duszek

You are a sweetheart.

Barbara

chaz wyman
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by chaz wyman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:56 pm

lancek4 wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:
duszek wrote:Arbeit has made me resilient.
No degree of bullying has a chance to make me change my mind.

I also learn from Barbara. :D

You must be really ashamed of your job.
Right to the point, Chaz.
Indeed, I must admit my life in the past 10 yrs has not gone the way I wished. I have had to do what I must. To me this is life, living.

You would do well not to allow others to judge you by what you do.
It is a failing of theirs not yours.

Indeed, a good freind of mine is a surgeon. He make more money in a year than I have in my life time so far, and prabably more than ill make in my lifetime. On the outside he is a great person and gives as a good heart and acts like everything is great. He loves his work but I know cuz he's my friend that he is miserable. He is not free. His work, what he felt and feels is/ was worthy of him and that he has worked for, is/has granted him a type of freedom that is not really free. For he hates his life.

He is the epitoome of cultural sucess, but he does not feel sucessful.

Some people are never satisfied!

But you feel successful despite your work. I have ben in this position my self. In the 1980s I was unemployed for around 4 out of 10 years. Many people, and society at large wanted me to feel shame; I refused. Unemployment was around 4 million at the time I could have got a shit job but why deprive another who was more needy than I?
Being unemployed did not mean I was idle or a couch potato. I did stuff.


Indeed, how about our current cultural/economic situation? How many people grudgingly take a lass paying job or choose to take the dole because they feel 'better' than because of pay?

I'm guessing you are in the dole. There is nothing wrong in that.

What is freedom here? What is death ?

Death is allowing others to shame you for not working, freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery.


chaz wyman
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by chaz wyman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:56 pm

lancek4 wrote:
chaz wyman wrote:
duszek wrote:Arbeit has made me resilient.
No degree of bullying has a chance to make me change my mind.

I also learn from Barbara. :D

You must be really ashamed of your job.
Right to the point, Chaz.
Indeed, I must admit my life in the past 10 yrs has not gone the way I wished. I have had to do what I must. To me this is life, living.

You would do well not to allow others to judge you by what you do.
It is a failing of theirs not yours.

Indeed, a good freind of mine is a surgeon. He make more money in a year than I have in my life time so far, and prabably more than ill make in my lifetime. On the outside he is a great person and gives as a good heart and acts like everything is great. He loves his work but I know cuz he's my friend that he is miserable. He is not free. His work, what he felt and feels is/ was worthy of him and that he has worked for, is/has granted him a type of freedom that is not really free. For he hates his life.

He is the epitoome of cultural sucess, but he does not feel sucessful.

Some people are never satisfied!

But you feel successful despite your work. I have ben in this position my self. In the 1980s I was unemployed for around 4 out of 10 years. Many people, and society at large wanted me to feel shame; I refused. Unemployment was around 4 million at the time I could have got a shit job but why deprive another who was more needy than I?
Being unemployed did not mean I was idle or a couch potato. I did stuff.


Indeed, how about our current cultural/economic situation? How many people grudgingly take a lass paying job or choose to take the dole because they feel 'better' than because of pay?

I'm guessing you are in the dole. There is nothing wrong in that.

What is freedom here? What is death ?

Death is allowing others to shame you for not working, freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery.


artisticsolution
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by artisticsolution » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:19 pm

chaz wyman wrote: Death is allowing others to shame you for not working, freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery.
Some people do shame other people for not working. That is a true statement. Do you think that is a bad thing? The reason I am asking is because if you do think it is bad to shame people, then why do you turn around in the next breath and shame them for working? As I feel a statement like, " Freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery" was said to shame workers.

chaz wyman
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by chaz wyman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:37 pm

artisticsolution wrote:
chaz wyman wrote: Death is allowing others to shame you for not working, freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery.
Some people do shame other people for not working. That is a true statement. Do you think that is a bad thing? The reason I am asking is because if you do think it is bad to shame people, then why do you turn around in the next breath and shame them for working? As I feel a statement like, " Freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery" was said to shame workers.
You are talking bollocks.

It is wrong to shame a person for not having a job. I'll stick with that.
My second statement does not go anywhere near shaming people for working.
What I said was that freedom was managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery.", in which case you could be working or not.
You are at fault for assuming that all working is slavery- it is not.
I hope I have ended your confusion.

lancek4
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by lancek4 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:42 pm

I have a decent job.
I marvel at the attitude of wishing to die rather than work.

It expresses a type of indolence. As if one should have more than what they have. Rebellious - which is admired to extremes now a days. (Not that I am not a rebel ;). ).

artisticsolution
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Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by artisticsolution » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:51 pm

chaz wyman wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:
chaz wyman wrote: Death is allowing others to shame you for not working, freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery.
Some people do shame other people for not working. That is a true statement. Do you think that is a bad thing? The reason I am asking is because if you do think it is bad to shame people, then why do you turn around in the next breath and shame them for working? As I feel a statement like, " Freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery" was said to shame workers.
You are talking bollocks.

It is wrong to shame a person for not having a job. I'll stick with that.
My second statement does not go anywhere near shaming people for working.
What I said was that freedom was managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery.", in which case you could be working or not.
You are at fault for assuming that all working is slavery- it is not.
I hope I have ended your confusion.
You are childishly trying to back peddle.

Who do you think is trying to shame a person for not having a job? Does the person who does not have a job have any responsibility in allowing themselves to be shamed?

"Death is allowing others to shame you for not working, freedom is managing to stay afloat without compromising your self to slavery."

How melodramatic of you...but okay, let me ask you, if "death" is allowing others to shame you, then what must slavery be?! I think you are being dishonest here...I think you fully intended to shame people you think have shamed other people. You above statement is too melodramatic...but then again you are prone to allowing your emotions to control what you believe.

chaz wyman
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Would you rather die than work?

Post by chaz wyman » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:01 pm

lancek4 wrote:I have a decent job.
I marvel at the attitude of wishing to die rather than work.

It expresses a type of indolence. As if one should have more than what they have. Rebellious - which is admired to extremes now a days. (Not that I am not a rebel ;). ).
"Decent" - do you mean one you like?
Do other people have indecent jobs?

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