Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

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cyberstone
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Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by cyberstone » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:02 am

If a group of dolphins, or apes, or bees, or big feet, evolved to possess mental and social skills that rivaled man's, such animals would recognize the threat humans posed. Conflicts would be inevitable. We humans, having thousands of years of technological advances in our pockets, would end up killing such beings.

Is it possible that evolution, from an order of beings prior to the human towards the human, is dead?

I think the answer is clearly yes. When we evolved, we began killing mammoths for food, and we began protecting ourselves from animals much more physically powerful than us, all because nothing was nearly as smart with complicated divisions of labor, possession of tools such as fire and weapons, etc. But this was tens if not hundreds of thousands of years ago. We now have that much of a head start on the next animal who might be plunged by nature into the world of analytical, abstract planning. The type of brutal self-preservation that led to the invention of the city park and the tempurpedic pillow, just isn't going to happen again while we are around. True, meaningful evolutionary advances below us, are dead.

Any way out?

Impenitent
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by Impenitent » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:50 pm

as if humanity is the goal of evolution...

-Imp

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thalarch
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by thalarch » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:04 pm

cyberstone wrote:Is it possible that evolution, from an order of beings prior to the human towards the human, is dead?


Even the horde of chemical and environmental conditions in other planetary systems isn't bursting at the seams to produce such anthropic (or even terrestrial) tool-making characteristics that lead to EM broadcasts and visible signs of civilization / space exploration. Isaac Asimov was perhaps prophetic in his novels by making humans alone in the Milky Way galaxy.

I suppose Daniel Dennett and some others may have submitted a broader view of evolution that absorbs the biological kind as a subset, and in that context there was cosmological self-organization and is now artificial, guided development -- the latter wherein humans or posthumans could engineer animals to be sapient (not to mention AI, robots, nanotech life, virtual life, etc). But there's no "attractor" in the pure biological process drawing organisms toward intelligence or even metazoan complexity. Life remained in a monocellular rut for billions of years, not entirely due to lower oxygen levels as was once proposed, if some research now suggests it could have been higher in earlier times, and cells can even utilize alternatives. Earth also is something of a rocky-planet freak in having a huge satellite which --according to some theorists -- provides stability benefits in terms of climate, etc., for macroscopic entities.

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Chessmaster
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by Chessmaster » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:35 am

we can no more kill evolution than we can kill the universe, or any other universe.

we cannot even kill evolution of humans, unless we would all commit suicide.

cyberstone
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by cyberstone » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:54 pm

Chessmaster wrote:we can no more kill evolution than we can kill the universe, or any other universe.

we cannot even kill evolution of humans, unless we would all commit suicide.
Sure we can. A group of apes starts using spears, takes over a village to steal food and kills everyone. We could easily put a stop to that with a bomb. We can't stop mutation and natural selection, but we could deselect anything that began to rival human beings.

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HexHammer
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by HexHammer » Sat May 21, 2011 10:26 pm

All the weird chemicals we stuff ourselves with, will push the evolution further, also all our farfetched BMI ideas also makes changes to our genes.

chaz wyman
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by chaz wyman » Tue May 24, 2011 5:05 pm

cyberstone wrote:If a group of dolphins, or apes, or bees, or big feet, evolved to possess mental and social skills that rivaled man's, such animals would recognize the threat humans posed. Conflicts would be inevitable. We humans, having thousands of years of technological advances in our pockets, would end up killing such beings.

Is it possible that evolution, from an order of beings prior to the human towards the human, is dead?

I think the answer is clearly yes. When we evolved, we began killing mammoths for food, and we began protecting ourselves from animals much more physically powerful than us, all because nothing was nearly as smart with complicated divisions of labor, possession of tools such as fire and weapons, etc. But this was tens if not hundreds of thousands of years ago. We now have that much of a head start on the next animal who might be plunged by nature into the world of analytical, abstract planning. The type of brutal self-preservation that led to the invention of the city park and the tempurpedic pillow, just isn't going to happen again while we are around. True, meaningful evolutionary advances below us, are dead.

Any way out?
We evolve in spite of ourselves.
People still die before they have viable progeny.
Others produce offspring into the next generation.
It is their traits that go forward.
Evolution is a consequence of that process.
It happens.

chaz wyman
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by chaz wyman » Tue May 24, 2011 5:07 pm

Chessmaster wrote:we can no more kill evolution than we can kill the universe, or any other universe.

we cannot even kill evolution of humans, unless we would all commit suicide.
That choice would be the consequence, and that consequence is evolution.
Evolving the means, or desire to suicide is simply one consequent fact of the evolution of the human species; extinction.
Extinction of one species is not the end of evolution but simply one aspect of it.

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Rortabend
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by Rortabend » Wed May 25, 2011 12:58 am

Big feet!

chaz wyman
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by chaz wyman » Wed May 25, 2011 9:27 am

Rortabend wrote:Big feet!
Big ears and nose - small body

Whistle whilst you work da da da da dum dum dum

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ForgedinHell
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by ForgedinHell » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:52 am

Look at the evolution of the wolf? All dogs are descended from wolves. Those wolves who eventually made close enough contact with humans to become domesticated have evolved considerably. Now, if a lower species made itself friends of humans, like the wolves did, then there is no reason to believe the lower species would be wiped out for developing higher intelligence. In fact, I think many people would like more intelligent pets than we now have.

Danielk
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by Danielk » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:00 am

We may have changed the course of evolution, but we didn't kill it. The animals and plants that are still alive will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

chaz wyman
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by chaz wyman » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:21 pm

Danielk wrote:We may have changed the course of evolution, but we didn't kill it. The animals and plants that are still alive will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
There is no 'course of evolution' as if it were predetermined. We are the result of evolution and so in that sense we, like all other forms of life determine the next steps. We are no more immune to taking a path that would destroy us than any other living thing.

Evolution is not a cause of change, it is a thing that happens when things change. Successful things are what have evolved. Thus evolution is a thing that cannot be killed. Species come and go, as do their environments, but evolution is a consequence of this regardless.

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ForgedinHell
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by ForgedinHell » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:49 am

chaz wyman wrote:
Danielk wrote:We may have changed the course of evolution, but we didn't kill it. The animals and plants that are still alive will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
There is no 'course of evolution' as if it were predetermined. We are the result of evolution and so in that sense we, like all other forms of life determine the next steps. We are no more immune to taking a path that would destroy us than any other living thing.

Evolution is not a cause of change, it is a thing that happens when things change. Successful things are what have evolved. Thus evolution is a thing that cannot be killed. Species come and go, as do their environments, but evolution is a consequence of this regardless.
I think the person was telling a joke, Comrade Chaz.

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Is it possible evolution is dead, and we killed it?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:48 pm

cyberstone wrote:If a group of dolphins, or apes, or bees, or big feet, evolved to possess mental and social skills that rivaled man's, such animals would recognize the threat humans posed. Conflicts would be inevitable. We humans, having thousands of years of technological advances in our pockets, would end up killing such beings.

Is it possible that evolution, from an order of beings prior to the human towards the human, is dead?

I think the answer is clearly yes. When we evolved, we began killing mammoths for food, and we began protecting ourselves from animals much more physically powerful than us, all because nothing was nearly as smart with complicated divisions of labor, possession of tools such as fire and weapons, etc. But this was tens if not hundreds of thousands of years ago. We now have that much of a head start on the next animal who might be plunged by nature into the world of analytical, abstract planning. The type of brutal self-preservation that led to the invention of the city park and the tempurpedic pillow, just isn't going to happen again while we are around. True, meaningful evolutionary advances below us, are dead.

Any way out?
Evolution is simply change. While I see no end to change in the universe, it doesn't mean there won't be. I also see, that of the billions of permutations, things, paths, that varying change has created, any particular path, thing, can be killed (stopped), but it's really just a matter of definition as to constitution.

Keep in mind that our evolution started with Hydrogen, as it fused (changed) to create all the other elements, compounds, and finally life forms, since the beginning of time.

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