YOU are Abrahamic

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phyllo
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by phyllo »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:25 pm
phyllo wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:11 pmThese are not your own original thoughts. You copied this from Satyr. :lol:
...pretty sure he hasn't said this. Can you quote him?
https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/t2330-abrahamism
Wizard22
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Wizard22 »

Will Bouwman wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:24 pm
Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 11:41 am
Will Bouwman wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 11:22 amDrawing on an example in another thread; I don't have faith that a brick will fall down a well; I can watch it happen.
You can watch God happen too.
No. You can watch things happen and attribute them to God.
Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 11:41 amBut this is a much more difficult proposition to prove than dropping a brick down the well. It's more like test detonating a nuclear bomb. It's difficult to setup and prove...not impossible though.
What conceivable experience could you have that could only be attributed to God?
You're passing over the point that the 'Cause' of you dropping the brick down the well, and "God did it" are the same.
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Wizard22 »

So where does Satyr equivocate between Creationism and the Big Bang? Between Abrahamism and Secularism?

Can you be specific?
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phyllo
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by phyllo »

So where does Satyr equivocate between Creationism and the Big Bang? Between Abrahamism and Secularism?
Try this thread:
Secularizing religious concepts is as simple as renaming and redefining the exact same concepts, and then seeking empirical evidence to support this redefinition so as to pretend to be something new and different.
This is quintessential Top<>Down emoting.
The idea is taken for granted as an absolute truth, and what remains is to use language to integrate new scientific insights and philosophical positions into the same unquestionable absolute truth.
https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/t252 ... sm+secular
Wizard22
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Wizard22 »

So do you agree or disagree?
Will Bouwman
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Will Bouwman »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:29 pmYou're passing over the point that the 'Cause' of you dropping the brick down the well, and "God did it" are the same.
And you are missing the point that the "'Cause'" of me dropping the brick down the well might well be that God did it, but there are alternative explanations. There are always alternative explanations.
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Wizard22 »

Will Bouwman wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:49 pmAnd you are missing the point that the "'Cause'" of me dropping the brick down the well might well be that God did it, but there are alternative explanations. There are always alternative explanations.
Yes...and Philosophers want more choice than "pepsi and coke" ... "or root beer".

Could it be that BOTH the Abrahamics AND Secularists got it wrong when it came to Causality?? Or, at least, they misunderstand the mechanical or organic sources of Causation?
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Agent Smith
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Agent Smith »

It probably isn't the food, in a manner of speaking. The search for a missing person in the great forests of the north terminates at some point for one reason or another. Which reason maybe as or more important than the systematic methodology adopted - fan out in a circle, an advancing line of volunteers, trained dogs, chopper, iron birds, drones, and even your local psychic - and thereby hangs a tale.

It's not only people, what kinda people? The land, it hides bones and the bones, they tell stories, and the stories, they enrich our lives - from Thanatos, we have Eros and the cycle cycles; there are no ghosts/spirits/demons/dare I say it? god(s).

Tartaglia, only bones, bones that tell a tale, a tale than enriches me life, a life that has ... out, out, brief candle!
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Harbal
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Harbal »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:22 pm
Harbal wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:02 pmBut when I, or anyone, reject religion, you just assume that I replace it with something else, and you also seem to assume what that something else is. All you know about me is that I have no use for religion, because I have told you so, but you don't know anything beyond that.
I do know that you and no other Secularist has provided an 'Alternative' to Abrahamism.
My alternative to any religion is to have no religion. What do you claim religion to have that I need, and which I must look for elsewhere if I don't look to religion for it?
Where is it? Where are the 'unique' beliefs which set you apart from them?
I don't think I have beliefs in the sense I take you to mean. Obviously, I believe some things to be true, and others not, but I don't believe in any ideology. That includes political or any other ideology. We are all influenced by our upbringing, prevailing social attitudes, and various other things, and I daresay we live our lives without even questioning many of these influences, but to the extent to which it is possible, I need to be the one who figures out how I ought to conduct myself, and what values I should to uphold. It is not for any religious authority to tell me these things.
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Iwannaplato »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:24 pm You're missing the point.

Literally where are the "alternative" beliefs??? Where's the option, the choice?
Really, you don't know any other positions between being an Abrahamist and the atheist person you contrasted it with in the OP?
Creationism or The Big Bang...how are they not the same thing, the same preposition?
They potentially share some similarities. And it was a religious person who first proposed the latter. I don't know what you think the Big Bang or creationism means. They both cover a range of positions.
which versions are you referring to? Different creationisms accept and dismiss, for example, different parts of scientific theories. Some Big Bang theory versions have treated it as the beginning, period. Others do not.
So what versions are we comparing?
You presume it yourself, a "choice" between coke and pepsi is not a choice, and I agree!
Well, it's rare that I drink soda, but if I do, it's coke. But other drinks exist obviously. And do people with positions that don't fit on what seems like a binary schema.
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Iwannaplato »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:27 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:19 pmI had a similar, less specific reaction. I don't see Wizard having original thoughts. He may have them, but so far, he seems to be keeping them to himself.
Correct...I am not proposing an alternative here, only the possibility of one.

Why can't there be an alternative? Why can't we make a new choice?
I certainly didn't say that we can't. I don't fit in your schema in the OP. There are lots of options


How about instead of "God did it" and "The Big Bang", how about... NO beginning, NO end? Why not this simple hypothesis?
There are Big Bang versions that have this idea. That idea has been around in and outside of science in many forms. That tends to be my belief, but I don't claim to know. You think humanists all believe in some single version of the Big Bang and are closed to anything. Or atheists. You're tilting at windmills.
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phyllo
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by phyllo »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 12:48 pm So do you agree or disagree?
Let's say that he has identified a pattern.

Then the questions are ... Which ideas and concepts are "non-Abrahamic"? Why would or should we use or adopt them? Why are they better than "Abrahamic"?

For example ... Created universe, Bing Bang universe, cyclical universe ... so what?
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Age »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:27 am Instead of Faith in God, you have Faith in Science.

Instead of The Church, you have The State.

Instead of "Trust the Priest/Rabbi/Imam", you have "Trust the Experts".

Instead of Creationism, you have The Big Bang.

Instead of Fall from Providence, you have Systemic Oppression.

Instead of Manifest Destiny, you have Determinism.
What you call "experts" here I certainly would NOT.
Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:27 am
So I have to ask you self-proclaimed "Atheists", "Agnostics", "Secularists", "Humanists", where exactly is your hypothetical Philosophy? Where are you different than those "religious zealots" you presume to be so much better than, superior to? How is your ideology any different, when your self-proclaimed, proud beliefs, are the exact same pattern?
GREAT QUESTIONS you ASK here.
Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:27 am Are you still not a mind-slave of Catholic Rome after 2000 years? Where is your Resistance? Where is your Freedom? Where are your "New" Ideas?

This is your Buck-Breaking from thousands of years ago: that your parents, grand-parents, great-grand-parents, g-g-g-parents, g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-parents succumbed to.

YOU are Abrahamic.

YOU have NO philosophy, no resistance, no original thoughts.

YOU are still Subject to those who have ruled above you for Millenniums now.

YOU have not...freed your mind.



You have never even touched Philosophy once in your short lives. So close...yet so far away.
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by attofishpi »

Fuck its got to the point of the night where I even tried to get an A.I. to produce an Abrahamic (an A_bra_hammock) - it's shit

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Age
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Re: YOU are Abrahamic

Post by Age »

Will Bouwman wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 11:22 am
Wizard22 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:27 amInstead of Faith in God, you have Faith in Science.
Drawing on an example in another thread; I don't have faith that a brick will fall down a well; I can watch it happen.
But you have FAITH that the Universe BEGAN and IS EXPANDING, right? Or can you SEE 'this' happening AS WELL?
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