a defense of drag show/drag queens..

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

seeds wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:56 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:21 pm
Flannel Jesus wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:34 pm Right, so what you quoted is only showing what I said, really. Being trans is entirely orthogonal to being in drag. A person in drag CAN be a trans person, just like a person playing tennis CAN be a trans person. But issues about people in drag aren't trans issues, in the same way that issues about tennis players aren't trans issues.

The concern about the bathrooms people in drag use, because you're concerned about trans people, makes as much sense as being concerned about what bathrooms tennis players use, because some tennis players are trans.

"Tennis players are going into the wrong bathroom!" No, you're focusing on some aspect of them that is completely irrelevant to the problem you have with their bathroom choice. The problem you have with their bathroom choice is related to their transness, and not the fact that they play tennis, or are in drag.

Most tennis players are not trans, and they use the bathroom that you would expect them to. Most drag performers are not trans, and they use the bathroom that you expect them to.
You could really do with more work in the analogy usage department...
Right!

I mean, I can't keep count of all the times I mistook these three guys...

Image

...for these three guys...

Image

...and thus, was concerned about those tennis players using the women's restrooms.
_______
Wow. It's amazing what make-up can do.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

men who are truly secure with who they are and their sexuality,
have no fear about drag shows... it doesn't bother us if men
wear dresses... who cares? but conservatives who fear everything
and I mean everything, are afraid of other men cross dressing,
they will find any excuse to ban it....to "protect" the children
is a lie.... conservatives don't care about children, if they did
they would do something about the fact that over half the homeless
population in America is children and they would do something
about childhood hunger, or help children get better medical care,
nah, the GOP/MAGA crowd couldn't give a shit about children...
they hide behind children to cover up the fact that they
are afraid of everything.. fear drives them to hate drag shows
and men who cross dress...
The real issue, the underlying issue, is a general explosion in what I might call 'deviant sexuality' and deviant sexual practices. The real issue that those who oppose drag queen story hour and a great deal more has to do with the intrusion of what they define as deviancy into the public sphere. How did this come about? Why is it happening? What will be the end result? And how will what is happening now be assessed? Value questions.

The liberal sorts here, naturally, fall into line behind permissiveness. And they have their reasons and their reasoning. Their reasoning, in regard to sexuality (and *deviancy*) is that 'consenting adults can do what they want'. But this entire issue is really different. It hinges on who controls, or dominates, at a moral and ethical level, the public sphere. Libraries, schools, downtown, the streets -- the entire public sphere -- is what those concerned about sexual deviancy are concerned about.

They see the intrusions, the slow creep, and they also see where it all goes. It gets more and more extreme, just as it is now getting more and more extreme.

This is not about men's 'security'. That is an old tactic to attach blame (and pathology) to those who react to deviancy.

Who cares? Many people care. And they have well-reasoned arguments. Their caring is not a pathology. It may be quite the opposite. That you say "who cares?" could be examined, also, as pathological.

If conservatives have fears (apprehensions, concerns, etc.) the same is true for the liberal and the hyper-liberal set. What is it that they fear? That can be talked about, explored.

The homeless situation is completely separate. How and why it has come about a completely separate issue. And the solution, if there is one, is complex.
the GOP/MAGA crowd couldn't give a shit about children...
This qualifies as a genuinely stupid statement. If you actually believe such a thing, I would say that your belief is pathological. You simply cannot say such a thing simply because it is not true.
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Sculptor
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by Sculptor »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:12 pm
men who are truly secure with who they are and their sexuality,
have no fear about drag shows... it doesn't bother us if men
wear dresses... who cares? but conservatives who fear everything
and I mean everything, are afraid of other men cross dressing,
they will find any excuse to ban it....to "protect" the children
is a lie.... conservatives don't care about children, if they did
they would do something about the fact that over half the homeless
population in America is children and they would do something
about childhood hunger, or help children get better medical care,
nah, the GOP/MAGA crowd couldn't give a shit about children...
they hide behind children to cover up the fact that they
are afraid of everything.. fear drives them to hate drag shows
and men who cross dress...
The real issue, the underlying issue, is a general explosion in what I might call 'deviant sexuality' and deviant sexual practices. The real issue that those who oppose drag queen story hour and a great deal more has to do with the intrusion of what they define as deviancy into the public sphere. How did this come about? Why is it happening? What will be the end result? And how will what is happening now be assessed? Value questions.

The liberal sorts here, naturally, fall into line behind permissiveness. And they have their reasons and their reasoning. Their reasoning, in regard to sexuality (and *deviancy*) is that 'consenting adults can do what they want'. But this entire issue is really different. It hinges on who controls, or dominates, at a moral and ethical level, the public sphere. Libraries, schools, downtown, the streets -- the entire public sphere -- is what those concerned about sexual deviancy are concerned about.

They see the intrusions, the slow creep, and they also see where it all goes. It gets more and more extreme, just as it is now getting more and more extreme.

This is not about men's 'security'. That is an old tactic to attach blame (and pathology) to those who react to deviancy.

Who cares? Many people care. And they have well-reasoned arguments. Their caring is not a pathology. It may be quite the opposite. That you say "who cares?" could be examined, also, as pathological.

If conservatives have fears (apprehensions, concerns, etc.) the same is true for the liberal and the hyper-liberal set. What is it that they fear? That can be talked about, explored.

The homeless situation is completely separate. How and why it has come about a completely separate issue. And the solution, if there is one, is complex.
the GOP/MAGA crowd couldn't give a shit about children...
This qualifies as a genuinely stupid statement. If you actually believe such a thing, I would say that your belief is pathological. You simply cannot say such a thing simply because it is not true.
It is true.
They are only really in fear of not having control and fear difference. Children are just an excuse. Children are not in danger in any sense by men in skirts. They have far more to fear from youth leaders and priests.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:47 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:12 pm
men who are truly secure with who they are and their sexuality,
have no fear about drag shows... it doesn't bother us if men
wear dresses... who cares? but conservatives who fear everything
and I mean everything, are afraid of other men cross dressing,
they will find any excuse to ban it....to "protect" the children
is a lie.... conservatives don't care about children, if they did
they would do something about the fact that over half the homeless
population in America is children and they would do something
about childhood hunger, or help children get better medical care,
nah, the GOP/MAGA crowd couldn't give a shit about children...
they hide behind children to cover up the fact that they
are afraid of everything.. fear drives them to hate drag shows
and men who cross dress...
The real issue, the underlying issue, is a general explosion in what I might call 'deviant sexuality' and deviant sexual practices. The real issue that those who oppose drag queen story hour and a great deal more has to do with the intrusion of what they define as deviancy into the public sphere. How did this come about? Why is it happening? What will be the end result? And how will what is happening now be assessed? Value questions.

The liberal sorts here, naturally, fall into line behind permissiveness. And they have their reasons and their reasoning. Their reasoning, in regard to sexuality (and *deviancy*) is that 'consenting adults can do what they want'. But this entire issue is really different. It hinges on who controls, or dominates, at a moral and ethical level, the public sphere. Libraries, schools, downtown, the streets -- the entire public sphere -- is what those concerned about sexual deviancy are concerned about.

They see the intrusions, the slow creep, and they also see where it all goes. It gets more and more extreme, just as it is now getting more and more extreme.

This is not about men's 'security'. That is an old tactic to attach blame (and pathology) to those who react to deviancy.

Who cares? Many people care. And they have well-reasoned arguments. Their caring is not a pathology. It may be quite the opposite. That you say "who cares?" could be examined, also, as pathological.

If conservatives have fears (apprehensions, concerns, etc.) the same is true for the liberal and the hyper-liberal set. What is it that they fear? That can be talked about, explored.

The homeless situation is completely separate. How and why it has come about a completely separate issue. And the solution, if there is one, is complex.
the GOP/MAGA crowd couldn't give a shit about children...
This qualifies as a genuinely stupid statement. If you actually believe such a thing, I would say that your belief is pathological. You simply cannot say such a thing simply because it is not true.
It is true.
They are only really in fear of not having control and fear difference. Children are just an excuse. Children are not in danger in any sense by men in skirts. They have far more to fear from youth leaders and priests.
It's none of your fucking business. It's about women's rights. Let me guess. You have a 'trans' offspring? Or perhaps your sexual partner does and you don't want to rock the boat? That's the only reason I can think of that could cause a generally rational person side with irrational idiocy.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:47 pm
My effort is generally just to accurately see the issue or problem, then to describe it fairly. I think it is as I said.

You are right: values defined through principles, and religiously defined principles, are part of the equation. You are within your rights to critique and reject them.

Personally, I’ve determined that that is not wise and I also believe I can explain, fairly and rationally, why.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:37 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:47 pm
My effort is generally just to accurately see the issue or problem, then to describe it fairly. I think it is as I said.

You are right: values defined through principles, and religiously defined principles, are part of the equation. You are within your rights to critique and reject them.

Personally, I’ve determined that that is not wise and I also believe I can explain, fairly and rationally, why.
Don't bring fucking religion into it. Stick to facts, science and reason. As soon as you bring religion into it you lose.
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by Sculptor »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:37 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:47 pm
My effort is generally just to accurately see the issue or problem, then to describe it fairly. I think it is as I said.

You are right: values defined through principles, and religiously defined principles, are part of the equation. You are within your rights to critique and reject them.

Personally, I’ve determined that is not wise and I also believe I can explain, fairly and rationally, why.
People of every human culture for thousands of years have cross-dressed.
WHy do you think this is a problem NOW?
Are we not just being manipulated by the media who are looking to keep ordinary people divided and distracted?
Do you think it is any co-incidence that this has blown up recently?
If Ronald Reagan can appear alongside drag queens in major film production in 1943 for public consumption why is it now so scary?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:41 am
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:37 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:47 pm
My effort is generally just to accurately see the issue or problem, then to describe it fairly. I think it is as I said.

You are right: values defined through principles, and religiously defined principles, are part of the equation. You are within your rights to critique and reject them.

Personally, I’ve determined that is not wise and I also believe I can explain, fairly and rationally, why.
People of every human culture for thousands of years have cross-dressed.
WHy do you think this is a problem NOW?
Are we not just being manipulated by the media who are looking to keep ordinary people divided and distracted?
Do you think it is any co-incidence that this has blown up recently?
If Ronald Reagan can appear alongside drag queens in major film production in 1943 for public consumption why is it now so scary?
No one HAS cared, until some misogynistic weirdos realised that they can actually erase women by BECOMING women, and gain access to their 'secret spaces' by claiming to BE women. JFC, what a fucking convoluted mess you wokies have created for the rest of us.

I suppose you think it's fine that women are being referred to as 'cervix owners' by Govt. depts. because 'woman' is now meaningless? Of course, the word 'man' remains intact.
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by Sculptor »

We have nothing to fear from drag queens, but every thing to fear from religions.

https://www.tiktok.com/@newgirlny_fl/vi ... 2672222510
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:50 pm We have nothing to fear from drag queens, but every thing to fear from religions.

https://www.tiktok.com/@newgirlny_fl/vi ... 2672222510
Are you calling a woman (i.e. man wearing a wig) a 'drag queen'? Shame on you, you TRANSPHOBE!

And priests aren't trying to get into women-only spaces. Plus, EVERYONE has something to fear from the religious cult of wokism.
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

seeds wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:01 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:01 pm as I am old, I recall watching TV in the old days,
and one of the set pieces of variety shows in the
1950' and 60's were men dressing as women....
if you were a movie or TV star back in the day,
you would, at one point or another appear in drag on TV...
Milton Berle for example, appear in drag in multiple shows
and being old, I can remember people like Dean Martin and
I seem to recall even John Wayne doing a show in drag with
multiple other male movie stars...

I grew up with that, it wasn't a scary thing like it is today,
and it was humorous, taken for laughter, it wasn't the life and
death thing it is today.... and one of the best rated comedy
movies of all time, was based on men dressing as women,
"Some like it hot".... and it is still a hilarious movie..

but why has men dressing as women created so much fuss
and downright unpleasantness?

it has nothing to do with cross dressing, it has everything to do
with men feeling insecure... Ron DeSantis who clearly hates
drag shows, really is pointing out that he has a image problem...
he is insecure with being a man...it has nothing to do with drag
shows and everything to do how these people feel about themselves...

men who are truly secure with who they are and their sexuality,
have no fear about drag shows... it doesn't bother us if men
wear dresses... who cares? but conservatives who fear everything
and I mean everything, are afraid of other men cross dressing,
they will find any excuse to ban it....to "protect" the children
is a lie....
I too am old, and I too grew up watching the shows you mentioned, and I have no problem with them.

As other examples, I loved Curley Howard's and Stan Laurel's comedic portrayals of females...

Image
Image

However, are we to understand that you personally would have no problem taking your 4-year-old grandchild (perhaps a little girl) to this drag queen's library reading show...

Image

...where he could "accidently" expose his nasty crotch to her???

Furthermore, in what way could it possibly be "healthy" to expose little children to the hideous vision of this grown man's bizarre and twisted lifestyle?...

Image

Let's hear your "defense" of these things.


K: where one COULD possible see a man's penis, and if pigs had wings,
they could fly...how about a women's dress where one COULD possible see
a woman's vagina? Do you feel any better about that? your coulda,
shoulda, woulda....can be thought about anything.... for example,
a woman who wears a white bikini runs the risk of having that
women's nipple and areola being shown... it might run the risk
of corrupting our children.. oh no, not corrupting our children!!!!!
and we already teach children to see grown men bizarre and
twisted lifestyle.. or have you forgotten about "Santa Claus" or
what about witches, in the female category......
you have forgotten that childhood is full of images of people dressing
and acting in bizarre and twisted ways..

how about the book, "Alice in Wonderland".... or what about Kabuki theatre...
should we ban that as being "unhealthy" for children? The entirety of
childhood literature from the beginning of time has been about
bizarre and twisted people... or have you forgotten the tales of
the Brother Grimm? The incredible cruelty and violence of the original
folktales are legendary... is that the type of twisted and bizarre
people you are talking about? most of Disney is about twisted
and bizarre people doing twisted and bizarre things...
or have you forgotten the recent movie, "The Beauty and the Beast"
or perhaps, the classic "Sleeping Beauty"... that is one sick fuck
who thought of that..... death is a common theme in these plays,
movies and books... is that something we want to have "innocent"
children think about.. because it might corrupt them into becoming
mass murderers? coulda, woulda, shoulda.....

or perhaps we should not engage in this modern mass of
twisted and bizarre books, movies, literature and engage
in the wholesome book, "the bible"
that ''the bible'' is one of the most pornographic books ever
written can't be denied... it has incest, mass murder,
masturbation, it defends slavery and the gruesome torture of
Job... because of a bet between god and Satan....
and you see that as being good and clean wholesome fun?

if you deny things because they might depict, might depict
twisted and bizarre people, you have basically shut down
all the literature and movies and plays ever made... watching
sports on TV.. no, that is showing children, violence between adults,
what about cartoons? even more graphic violence...

just exactly how far are you going in "protecting" the children?


Kropotkin
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by Sculptor »

GOD FORBID that American children were ever exposed to nay hint of sexualisation!

It would never happen at American cultural institutions like Hooters, or cheerleaders or beauty pageants
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:14 am GOD FORBID that American children were ever exposed to nay hint of sexualisation!

It would never happen at American cultural institutions like Hooters, or cheerleaders or beauty pageants

pagearnt.JPGhooters2.JPGhooters1.JPG
You find that 'sexual'? I would be looking inwards and questioning my own reaction if I were you.
And those children aren't being treated with hormones and sterilised.
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:00 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:14 am GOD FORBID that American children were ever exposed to nay hint of sexualisation!

It would never happen at American cultural institutions like Hooters, or cheerleaders or beauty pageants

pagearnt.JPGhooters2.JPGhooters1.JPG
You find that 'sexual'? I would be looking inwards and questioning my own reaction if I were you.
And those children aren't being treated with hormones and sterilised.
K: the entire point of a beauty pageant is to sexualize the women/children
involved.... so, yes, the point of a child's beauty pageant is to sexualize
them....and you seem to think that is ok, or no big deal...
but you bring up a point about hormones and being sterilized?
what the fuck are you talking about? how is that a big deal over
sexualizing children?

Kropotkin
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: a defense of drag show/drag queens..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:44 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:00 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:14 am GOD FORBID that American children were ever exposed to nay hint of sexualisation!

It would never happen at American cultural institutions like Hooters, or cheerleaders or beauty pageants

pagearnt.JPGhooters2.JPGhooters1.JPG
You find that 'sexual'? I would be looking inwards and questioning my own reaction if I were you.
And those children aren't being treated with hormones and sterilised.
K: the entire point of a beauty pageant is to sexualize the women/children
involved.... so, yes, the point of a child's beauty pageant is to sexualize
them....and you seem to think that is ok, or no big deal...
but you bring up a point about hormones and being sterilized?
what the fuck are you talking about? how is that a big deal over
sexualizing children?

Kropotkin
It doesn't even mean anything. You could dress children in a burlap sack and they would still be sex objects to fucking perverted kunts.
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