Of course the issue of sexuality is both social and biological.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:28 amI'll just go with the flow and accept that this thread is somehow about trans people now, lol.
I think, despite her last post being wrapped in sarcasm and thus impossible to meaningfully respond to, she does bring up an interesting point that comes up now and then among people talking about this topic seriously, and that is this:
To the people who think gender is entirely a social construct, the existence of trans people actually raises some interesting philosophical contradictions.
You see, if gender in fact is biological, then being trans imo can actually make sense and be meaningful. Gender, biologically, would be a fact about sometimes neurology, presumably. And one could imagine that it's possible that a person born with a penis could have, in some sense, a female-ish neurology. And that could give you context for why people with penises want to live as women, be recognized as women, and have surgeries to make their bodies more female, to match their neurology.
On the other hand, if gender is entirely a social construct, then a lot of that stuff above doesn't really make sense. If gender is a social construct, then there's no meaningful difference between "I was born with a penis and want to live as a woman" Vs "I'm a man but I like wearing dresses and doing and behaving in ways that are seen as traditionally feminine". Those two statements become almost indistinguishable. And someone in that boat doesn't need a sex change, or to be recognized as a woman, what they really would need, hypothetically, is to live in a society where men are allowed to have feminine preferences.
And yet if you talk to trans people, even trans people who insist that gender really is just a social construct, and you offer up that theoretical world where men are simply allowed, with no social penalty, to have entirely feminine behaviours and preferences, you'll find that that's not sufficient for them. A lot of them say they would still want to take hormones, say they might still seek sex change surgeries.
And that to me indicates that the "gender" of people who are "trans-gender" runs deeper than something that is just merely a social construct.
I'm not of course saying that every aspect of gender isn't a social construct, that every aspect of gender is biological. There are certainly parts of gender expression which are entirely cultural. But there does, I think, seem to be something deeper than the social and cultural aspects of gender that people who are trans-gender illuminate.
This probably should be its own thread though, it has nothing to do with drag queens. I've started a thread here viewtopic.php?t=39835
People like to divide it conveniently into one or the other and append words to describe one or the other.
Thus the phrase "gender is a social construct" is true, but ought not to imply that it is ONLY a social construct, which it certainly is not.
The notion that there can only be two genders male and female is, like marriage, a purely social construct. It not only ignores biology but masses of actual physical evidence.
It also ignores the history of the subject and is home to the bigot who lacks basic imagination, and seems to want their own twisted view of humanity to be imposed upon all others. This is a sort of xenophobia of the worst kind, and seems to grow in times of economic stress, not least because the rich and powerful wish to divert attention from their continuing looting of the economy to further enrich themselves. But that is another story.
I think you simply have to ask yourself did any of us actually chose their sexual orientation?
And given the fact the being off the "norm" of straight heterosexuality is seen as some sort of social crime, and those "afflicted" are evil pariahs - who the actual fuck would chose to be gay, or trans or anything other than straight?
If it were just a social construct then we could all be straight, monogamous, marriage seeking, parents or would be parents.
But the bigot has no imagination
