What is so thought provoking about Seed's objection?Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:54 amI find Seeds' objection to your premise in that other thread, linked above, a thought provoking one.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:42 amOne point I noted re Kant [mentioned] is;
Kant argued 'existence' or exists is not a predicate.
Realistically, the general format is 'Subject<->Predicate'
"Exists" is merely "is" which is a copula that joint [complement] the subject with its predicates.
If 'nothing exists' i.e. "nothing [subject] - exists [is] - ??? [predicate] " where is the predicate?
This is why the context [as predicate] is critical for the statement to make sense.
A predicate is always conditioned upon a specific Framework and System of Reality [FSR] or FSK [ F & S of Knowledge]. e.g.
Water [subject] exists as H20 [predicated on the Science-Chemistry FSR]
An apple exists as a fruit [predicated on the Science-Biology FSR or FSK.
The FSR and FSK are ultimately predicated unavoidably upon the human conditions.
This is why the claim,
"God exists" is not realistic because there is no predicate.
When the predicate for God is taken into account, it is impossible for God to be real.
God is Impossible to be Real
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704
There are probably thousands of gods [re Greeks, Chinese, Hindus, etc. God-of this or that] out there which are not claimed to be perfect, not omnipotent, or omni-whatever, some gods are claimed to be devil-like, full of shit, etc.
If Seed or any one wants to put their God is any of the above imperfect category, then, my argument do not apply to them.
However in general, the god of theists [80% of humans] by default are claimed to be perfect, supreme, an entity no greater can be conceived.
I had argued, whether theists are aware of it or not, why theists believe in a God is the subliminal impulses that drive theists to seek consonance to soothe the cognitive dissonances generated from the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.Whether or not there is a God, hinges on our definition of what God is? So far, some of the more convincing proofs I've seen of the existence of God have been along the lines of our belief that the universe had to have a beginning or an intelligent creator, that the idea of complexity and consciousness "accidentally" sprouting up out of inanimate space dust and atomic particles, seems incredibly counterintuitive to us.
I suppose it's possible that such is the case for whatever humanly inexplicable reason, however, something about the idea of consciousness just sprouting up out of nothing just doesn't sit well. Beyond that we have only speculation and conjecture: for example, "God is benevolent" or "omniscient" or an "angry and jealous God" resembling a deified Archie Bunker in the sky.
I'd say God serves at least 3 fundamental purposes to the human mind:
1. Origin of causality: It explains the origins of everything. Of course it also may beg the question of where did God come from.
2. Supreme Justice: It reconciles human experience giving us a sense that there is supreme justice in the world, making it conducive to the forming of more complex social interaction among humans. If a person thinks God is watching their behavior, then you don't have to watch your back as vigorously and can trust others with a little more confidence. The idea of "heaven" and "hell" awaiting after life, preserves a kind of economy of punishment and reward that extends beyond what happens in this world--should events in this world seem unjust or unfair.
3. Faith and Good will: It gives us a hope that things will be OK in the end, regardless of what we face in life. Your parents die leaving you homeless, then you can persevere better with the belief that God will help you along the way to make up for that horrible loss.
Of course, it could be that the world is a crap shoot and we humans have been fortunately tempered by our superstitions that have allowed us to create more sophisticated societies than gorillas or monkeys.
To me, all this brings up a vital question as to whether it may be better to delude ourselves with a fantasy that helps us function better in the world or else embrace a truth that maybe would lead to a collapse of human civilization as we know it.
OR maybe there's a God. My thought is that if there is, then that God must be found somewhere in the pages of all the various religions and such of the world and not only in a particular religion's texts. I just can't see God picking sides, like he's someone's personal bodyguard against everyone one else or something. I don't know.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To ensure the certainty and beyond any doubt that a God can eliminate the terrible cognitive dissonances pulsating from within, the God believed must be omnipotent and supremely perfect.
The slightest imperfections or cracks in God will trigger the terrible pains of the cognitive dissonances to exude to their consciousness.
Given the current psychological state of the existential crisis, I believe the idea of a God [albeit illusory - a useful illusion] is a critical necessity for the majority [theists] to soothe the inherent unavoidable pains from the cognitive dissonance.
At present, there are no better alternatives for them in that psychological state.
What I had proposed is;
the deeply embedded inherent existential crisis is unavoidable,
the only solution is to suppress and modulate this existential crisis effectively by increasing the strengths of the neural inhibitors to keep it a bay,
with the current trend of the exponential and expansion of knowledge and technology, I am optimistic [toward the future 50, 75 or >100 years time] we can enable individual[s] to self-develop in increasing the strength and efficiency of inhibitors, such that they will not resort to a belief in a perfect God.
My point remains;
God is Impossible to be Real
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704
but it is a useful illusion and fiction for the typical theists at present but not the future.
