The meaning of life

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Age
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:38 pm
Age wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:37 am
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:39 pm
You asked a question, and I answered it truthfully.
Maybe, but you did NOT now answer the ACTUAL question I asked you here.
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:39 pm
It depends on how important precision is in any given situation.
Within actual philosophical discussions could there really be ANY thing less than absolute precision necessary?
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:39 pm
No, I am already open to the possibility of God's existence.


The question of God's existence is not something I am interested in enough to have any firm beliefs about it.
Okay, pity you are not really that interested because if you were, and considering that you are ALREADY absolutely FULLY OPEN to the possibility of God's existence, then you could have VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY found out what the ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth IS, EXACTLY here.

Which, by the way, would STILL NOT hold ANY necessary NEED for BELIEF either way.
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:39 pm
No, I was going to mention the irony in what you said, but then decided it would be more tactful not to.
I REALLY WISH and would have MUCH PREFERRED you DID EXPRESS what and where you thought or BELIEVED the irony was here.

This began when you stated; Sometimes, what seems irrefutable today, ends up being refuted tomorrow.

I replied; Well then 'it' was OBVIOUSLY NEVER EVER 'irrefutable'. And, to think, assume, or BELIEVE that 'it' WAS, is AGAIN, just VERY DISTORTED and TWISTED thinking. ONLY 'that', which can be and IS IRREFUTABLE is what IS ACTUALLY IRREFUTABLE.

You responded; Exactly.

To which I asked you the question; So, WHY IMAGINE that 'it' IS IRREFUTABLE when 'it' could possibly BE REFUTED? and then stated; To me, this seems like a Truly bizarre AND absurd thing to do.

To which you did NOT answer the question and just instead stated; No comment, with some emoji thing.

I am STILL CURIOS as to WHY you would IMAGINE that some 'thing' that was REFUTABLE is IRREFUTABLE?

But if you STILL do NOT want to answer, or even comment, then so be it.
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:39 pm
Your claim that my behaviour is bizarre is your opinion, not a fact.
You talked about the behavior when one thinks or imagines that some 'thing' is IRREFUTABLE but which is later REFUTED. We BOTH AGREE that this behavior exists, which I talked about being this behavior you have done is an ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE Fact, so we BOTH AGREE on this behavior. Unless of course you want to now CLAIM that you have NEVER done this. But either way what would you call this behavior of BELIEVING or iMAGINING some 'thing' is IRREFUTABLE, but which was ACTUALLY REFUTABLE from the outset, if NOT a BIZARRE behavior, which is what I call and label this behavior?
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:39 pm
I neither believe nor disbelieve it.

I have noted your suggestion, and dismissed it as something of no interest to me.

In my opinion, you sometimes get things wrong. If you don't accept that, and regard yourself as infallible, so be it. It is simply one more thing that we disagree about.
WHY JUMP to ANOTHER False, Wrong, AND Incorrect ASSUMPTION here about me NOT accepting some 'thing', and then carrying on as though there was some sort of truth in it? Talk about just ANOTHER ATTEMPT at DISTRACTION and DEFLECTION.

LOOK, IF in YOUR OPINION I sometimes get things WRONG, THEN I would be VERY HAPPY and VERY PLEASED if you JUST MENTIONED those 'things', AND THEN EXPLAINED WHY, in YOUR OPINION, those 'things' ARE WRONG. THEN we, AT LEAST, would have SOME 'thing' to LOOK AT and DISCUSS here. BUT, if you think or BELIEVE that YOUR OPINIONS are just RIGHT, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT AT ALL, and so regard "yourself" as infallible and YOUR OPINIONS could NEVER be REFUTED, and so INSTEAD of continuing on with YOUR CLAIM that I sometimes get things wrong you INSTEAD JUMP to some OTHER TOPIC and OPINION of yours, then so be it. It is simply just ANOTHER 'thing' we could LOOK AT, and DISCUSS here.
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:39 pm
Okay, prove it to me, then.
Prove 'what', EXACTLY?

What does the 'it' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

And, IF you or ANY "OTHER" of 'you', human beings, COULD REFUTE what I SAID and CLAIMED here, then PLEASE GO ON AHEAD.

ALSO, 'what' PROOF do you want or NEED, which would PROVE 'it' (whatever 'it' IS, EXACTLY)?

Furthermore, do you DISAGREE or DISPUTE what I SAID and CLAIMED here?
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:39 pm
Prove it.
Could ANY one REFUTE 'it'?

If yes, then GO ON and DO IT.

Also, do 'you' DISAGREE or DISPUTE that 'you' READ or HEARING THOSE WORDS that 'I' PUT IN FRONT of 'you', "harbal"
I can't continue with this. All the misunderstandings an misinterpretations make it too frustrating. Also, if I have to see the word, "irrefutable", one more time I think it will drive me mad. No hard feelings, let's just call it a day.
If you feel too frustrated and would like to finish up with me, then that is perfectly fine with me.

I REALLY ENJOY CLEARING UP misunderstandings AND misinterpretations and so would continue on for as long as you like. But, if you feel 'you' are going 'mad' and/or are just feeling too 'frustrated', then so be it. Just about ALL adult human beings, back in the days when this was being written, did just GIVE UP BEFORE they GAINED and OBTAINED the FULL and ACTUAL CLARITY of 'things', so do NOT feel to alone here.

GIVING UP and RUNNING AWAY was a VERY COMMON occurrence back in the days when this was being written.
Gary Childress
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Gary Childress »

Harbal wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:00 pm Yes, our existence is pointless, but the absurdity of life makes it well worth living.
Harbalpotkin
In an odd way, realizing how utterly pointless and absurd existence is can be kind of entertaining, especially when you think of how many people actually believe there is a loving God or some sort of rational creator behind the world. I mean, seriously, one of my friends is a pretty devoted Christian. He related to me the other day how he fell for a very attractive young woman who started warming up to him and then she seemed to suddenly start to feel guilty about it and withdrew when she suddenly told him she had a boyfriend who was in rehab for drug use to whom she was devoted. Absurdity doesn't get any better than that. I knew God must favor stoners and dope addicts. It's like you can't get a good date anymore unless you're one of those. Joy to the absurd world!

Seriously, though. I would love it if I thought there was a loving and just God, however, I'm not seeing any evidence of one at work in this fucked up world. What can I say. The only joy I seem to get anymore in life is debunking the stupidity of optimists and the theologically minded. :oops:
Gary Childress
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Gary Childress »

You know, I've come to the relatively speedy realization that absurdity is ultimately an unsatisfying state of affairs. You can get a few laughs out of it, have a little fun over it but in the end an absurd world just sucks bullocks. We're doomed.

Thanks God. Appreciate the shit fest. I mean, who wants happiness anyway? It's probably overrated. Despair and misery are clearly more satisfying. Sour grapes anyone???
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:43 am
To me, 'matter' AND 'space' is ESSENTIAL for suns, stones, planets, and ALL other named and labelled 'things' to exist.
Yes, I agree.

I would also like to add the idea that Matter and Space is empty of a separate thing. That means no thing can exist by itself alone. Each thing has to coexist, has to inter-be with all the other things. No thing can exist or be isolated, or independantly existing in and of itself alone, including the apparent ''separate self' aka the 'you' separate from the 'me'
Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:43 amWhich, by the way, 'matter' AND 'space' ALWAYS EXISTS, HERE and NOW.
Yes, I agree.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Dontaskme »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:55 am We're doomed.
There is no escape from this doom either.

No thing started the doom, so no thing to end the doom. Doom will ultimately go on infinitely for eternity.

That's why humans made up the idea of a Loving God who when worshipped will save you from the doom and lift you into the realms of heaven.

While we are already here in the doom, we might as well try to make it as comfortable as we possibly can.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:55 am You know, I've come to the relatively speedy realization that absurdity is ultimately an unsatisfying state of affairs. You can get a few laughs out of it, have a little fun over it but in the end an absurd world just sucks bullocks. We're doomed.
There are many experiences. Some days we might see from one kind of perspective... another day we might see from another kind of perspective. Same world... different focus... different experience.
Age
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:53 am
Harbal wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:00 pm Yes, our existence is pointless, but the absurdity of life makes it well worth living.
Harbalpotkin
In an odd way, realizing how utterly pointless and absurd existence is can be kind of entertaining, especially when you think of how many people actually believe there is a loving God or some sort of rational creator behind the world. I mean, seriously, one of my friends is a pretty devoted Christian. He related to me the other day how he fell for a very attractive young woman who started warming up to him and then she seemed to suddenly start to feel guilty about it and withdrew when she suddenly told him she had a boyfriend who was in rehab for drug use to whom she was devoted. Absurdity doesn't get any better than that. I knew God must favor stoners and dope addicts. It's like you can't get a good date anymore unless you're one of those. Joy to the absurd world!

Seriously, though. I would love it if I thought there was a loving and just God, however, I'm not seeing any evidence of one at work in this fucked up world. What can I say. The only joy I seem to get anymore in life is debunking the stupidity of optimists and the theologically minded. :oops:
Maybe the reason you are so miserable and depressed "gary childress" is because you are NOT actually 'debunking' what 'you' are PRESUMING 'you' are here.
Age
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:47 am
Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:43 am
To me, 'matter' AND 'space' is ESSENTIAL for suns, stones, planets, and ALL other named and labelled 'things' to exist.
Yes, I agree.

I would also like to add the idea that Matter and Space is empty of a separate thing. That means no thing can exist by itself alone.
EXCEPT for the One and ONLY EXISTING Thing, known as, and called, 'The Universe'.

This One Thing is ALONE and SINGLE and thus is NOT dependent upon ANT thing else.

This One Thing, however, is dependent upon the TWO things called 'space', and, 'matter'. Which are just what the Universe is FUNDAMENTALLY and ESSENTIALLY made up of, ALONE.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:47 amEach thing has to coexist, has to inter-be with all the other things.
BOTH 'matter' AND 'space' have ALWAYS co-existed together FOREVER, and this is because there can NOT be ANY OTHER way. 'They' HAVE TO ALWAYS BE inter-being.

This continually ALWAYS CHANGING in the HERE-NOW 'co-existence' is what IS causing and creating EVERY 'thing'. 'Matter' being able to move ABSOLUTELY FREELY ALLOWS itself to REACT WITH its self, which is what IS CREATING thee Self.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:47 am No thing can exist or be isolated, or independantly existing in and of itself alone, including the apparent ''separate self' aka the 'you' separate from the 'me'
EXCEPT, AGAIN, for thee One and Only Self, called 'The Universe', Itself. This One is thee ONLY REAL and True 'Self'.

ALL of the "other" APPARENT 'separated selves' are just labels that 'you', individual DIFFERENT 'human beings', have placed upon "yourselves".
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:47 am
Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:43 amWhich, by the way, 'matter' AND 'space' ALWAYS EXISTS, HERE and NOW.
Yes, I agree.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Iwannaplato »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:55 am You know, I've come to the relatively speedy realization that absurdity is ultimately an unsatisfying state of affairs. You can get a few laughs out of it, have a little fun over it but in the end an absurd world just sucks bullocks. We're doomed.

Thanks God. Appreciate the shit fest. I mean, who wants happiness anyway? It's probably overrated. Despair and misery are clearly more satisfying. Sour grapes anyone???
Looking at everything and finding no solution for everything is to set oneself an enormous mental task and a quite route to hopelessness. But it might be a less painful hopelessness (and fear and pain and rage and grief) than the specific things we have experienced and are experiencing. What the hell happened? How did it feel? What didn't you express then? Going into that can be unbelievably painful. On the other hand tiny changes in suffering and the quality of life can happen.

And while you are in a lot of pain - unless I am misinterpreting this and other posts - other people's responses, here, will often come at this abstract, life is meaningless, life is suffering, death is the end type of utterly useless generalities.

As horrible as death is or seems and lonliness and generalized hopelessness, focuing on the whole thing can be a way of avoiding terrifying specifics. Unfortunately or fortunately, the only way to reduce suffering is to go through specifics: specific events and relations.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Belinda »

Harbal wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:07 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:52 pm
Harbal wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:45 am

Absolutely anything that wants to include itself.
So, our existence is valuable as well as meaningful, and making perfect sense of just being alive and living was besides being a very simple and easy thing to do is also an absolutely very reasonable thing to do. Or, in other words, comprehending and understanding the purpose and meaning of 'Life', Itself, fully, was and is able to be reasoned.
I am saying that there is no objective purpose behind, or to, our existence, or that of anything else, but that is no reason not to make the most of being alive.


Neither you nor Age explain the life of an individual, and human life as a concept , are not the same. Age seems to refer to the concept of human life, and Harbal seems to refer to individual lives. You would probably agree with each other if you were both more explicit.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Harbal »

Belinda wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:43 am
Neither you nor Age explain the life of an individual, and human life as a concept , are not the same. Age seems to refer to the concept of human life, and Harbal seems to refer to individual lives. You would probably agree with each other if you were both more explicit.
I was mainly talking about my life. I don't think I was put here for a purpose, and even if I was, I can't see the point when I don't know what it is. Age only seems to either tell people they are wrong, or hint at something he knows, but no one else appears to. It would be interesting to hear a proper account of some of his irrefutable truths, but I sense he doesn't think humanity is ready for them yet.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Belinda »

Harbal wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:05 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:43 am
Neither you nor Age explain the life of an individual, and human life as a concept , are not the same. Age seems to refer to the concept of human life, and Harbal seems to refer to individual lives. You would probably agree with each other if you were both more explicit.
I was mainly talking about my life. I don't think I was put here for a purpose, and even if I was, I can't see the point when I don't know what it is. Age only seems to either tell people they are wrong, or hint at something he knows, but no one else appears to. It would be interesting to hear a proper account of some of his irrefutable truths, but I sense he doesn't think humanity is ready for them yet.
That's clear enough and should satisfy Age. If Age want to discuss human life, or the biosphere, in general he should explain.

Maybe purposing is not reasoned but felt, and reasoning if any follows upon feelings.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:43 am
Harbal wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:07 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:52 pm

So, our existence is valuable as well as meaningful, and making perfect sense of just being alive and living was besides being a very simple and easy thing to do is also an absolutely very reasonable thing to do. Or, in other words, comprehending and understanding the purpose and meaning of 'Life', Itself, fully, was and is able to be reasoned.
I am saying that there is no objective purpose behind, or to, our existence, or that of anything else, but that is no reason not to make the most of being alive.


Neither you nor Age explain the life of an individual, and human life as a concept , are not the same. Age seems to refer to the concept of human life, and Harbal seems to refer to individual lives. You would probably agree with each other if you were both more explicit.
What?

"harbal" thinks, sees, or BELIEVES that there is ABSOLUTELY NO 'objective purpose' behind 'Life' or 'existing'. Whereas, I SAY and CLAIM that I ALREADY KNOW, FOR SURE, EXACTLY what the 'objective purpose' IS for 'Life' and 'Existence'.

So, HOW EXACTLY could 'we' AGREE when 'one' STATES that there is NO 'objective purpose' and the "other one" STATES that 'they' have ALREADY found what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY?

BUT, 'you' are EXACTLY Right "belinda" 'we', (and EVERY one), could and WOULD come to AN AGREEMENT with "each other" IF 'we' were BOTH, (or ALL), more EXPLICIT, and MORE Honest, OPEN, and Wanting to CHANGE as well I will add.
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:52 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:43 am
Harbal wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:07 pm

I am saying that there is no objective purpose behind, or to, our existence, or that of anything else, but that is no reason not to make the most of being alive.


Neither you nor Age explain the life of an individual, and human life as a concept , are not the same. Age seems to refer to the concept of human life, and Harbal seems to refer to individual lives. You would probably agree with each other if you were both more explicit.
What?

"harbal" thinks, sees, or BELIEVES that there is ABSOLUTELY NO 'objective purpose' behind 'Life' or 'existing'. Whereas, I SAY and CLAIM that I ALREADY KNOW, FOR SURE, EXACTLY what the 'objective purpose' IS for 'Life' and 'Existence'.

So, HOW EXACTLY could 'we' AGREE when 'one' STATES that there is NO 'objective purpose' and the "other one" STATES that 'they' have ALREADY found what the 'objective purpose' IS, EXACTLY?

BUT, 'you' are EXACTLY Right "belinda" 'we', (and EVERY one), could and WOULD come to AN AGREEMENT with "each other" IF 'we' were BOTH, (or ALL), more EXPLICIT, and MORE Honest, OPEN, and Wanting to CHANGE as well I will add.
Harbal has made it clear he is talking about his own life, and not 'life' in general.

There is no such thing as an objective purpose. There is no such THING as a purpose. To purpose is a verb. Purposing is something only people and other animals that have central nervous systems do, if they do it at all. Many people and other animals don't purpose they simply react.
Last edited by Belinda on Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Age
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Re: The meaning of life

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:05 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:43 am
Neither you nor Age explain the life of an individual, and human life as a concept , are not the same. Age seems to refer to the concept of human life, and Harbal seems to refer to individual lives. You would probably agree with each other if you were both more explicit.
I was mainly talking about my life. I don't think I was put here for a purpose, and even if I was, I can't see the point when I don't know what it is.
'you' speak here like 'you' think 'you' are somehow DIFFERENT than EVERY "OTHER" human being in regards to 'purpose', is this correct?

To me, absolutely NO human being has MORE, LESS, or DIFFERENT 'purpose' than ANY "OTHER" human being. To me, regarding ANY 'objective purpose' in Life, EVERY one 'you', human beings, ARE the EXACT SAME.
Harbal wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:05 pm Age only seems to either tell people they are wrong, or hint at something he knows, but no one else appears to.
AND, I do the latter for A VERY SPECIFIC PURPOSE, which, for those of 'you' who are Truly OPEN, Honest, and OBSERVANT, what THAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE IS, EXACTLY, would ALREADY BE KNOWN.
Harbal wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:05 pm It would be interesting to hear a proper account of some of his irrefutable truths, but I sense he doesn't think humanity is ready for them yet.
I INFORMED 'you' of SOME of 'them' ALREADY "harbal", that is; WHEN 'you' ASKED 'me' for 'them' BEFORE.

'you' INSTRUCTED 'me' to, Give you a couple of examples of irrefutable facts so you know what sort of things you need to eliminate from your list of things that can never be known for sure.

However, you seem to NOT be ABLE to DECIPHER 'PROOF' for and by "your" OWN 'self' and so NEED 'me' or "others" to PROVIDE 'PROOF' for 'you'. BUT, considering you have ALREADY CONCLUDED that there are NO IRREFUTABLE facts or truths 'I', at least, WONDER, HOW 'we' could PROVIDE 'you' with ANY ACTUAL 'PROOF'. That is, considering the Fact that 'PROOF', in and of itself, IS IRREFUTABLE, of which 'you' have ALREADY CONCLUDED does NOT exist ANYWAY.
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