Humanism: a lost word....

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Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

Humanism: a lost word....

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

My own writing is an example of humanism at work.....at
the heart of my writings, lies a profound belief in the human experience...

I hold to the human experience...of living, love, hope, beauty, sunsets,
knowledge... all of which translate onto philosophical areas...
Aesthetics, epistemology, finding a way of life (and finding a way of
life should be an area of philosophy) morals/ethics... are all areas of
the human experience....(and so much more) but note, I haven't discounted
those other areas, they are others who might engage in my areas of neglect..
language games, or Metaphysics or theology... those areas just have little or no
interest for me...

I am seeking to what it means to be human... not in connection to
god or to "being saved" which is at the heart of the religious experience..

(to be saved as a goal, as a point of existence, demeans and dehumanizes the
human experience... it turns the human experience into a performance for
being saved and thus diminishing the human experience)

I favor putting the human experience as the criteria for our understanding
of what it means to be human...with the understanding that within
the scope of being human lies hope, love, peace, beauty, sunsets,
knowledge..... as a means of exploring our human nature...

I am a humanist because I put the human experience first,
not god or religion or any ism/ ideology, but human
experiences..... which means I can defend the positive
activities of ecology and conservation of the earth as we
come from and form an integral part of the earth...
our experience of being human flow directly from
our experience of living on earth.....

I am human and that means, I come from earth....
so to say, I am human means I am earth.....

and that is the human experience... to come from earth..

Kropotkin
promethean75
Posts: 4932
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by promethean75 »

"Let your will say: the Petermensch is to be the meaning of the earth! I beseech you, my brothers, be true to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! They are poisoners, whether they know it or not." - FN
Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

a famous statement during the Middle Ages and thereafter:

" The spirit gives life, but the body is of no use"

and as I am of the earth, this is not true.....
I am body and not spirit...

because can I touch the body, I can hear the body, I can taste the body,
I can smell the body and I can see the body.. I cannot physically
touch, see, smell, taste or hear the spirit.. how can something be true if
it cannot be witness by the senses.... how can be something be true if I cannot
show it exists?

Now some pompous, pedantic will undoubtably try to bring up some sort of
silliness to prove me wrong.. instead of attempting to understand what I am
saying... trying to score points instead of seeking wisdom...

Kropotkin
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6675
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by Iwannaplato »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:36 pm Now some pompous, pedantic will undoubtably try to bring up some sort of
silliness to prove me wrong.. instead of attempting to understand what I am
saying... trying to score points instead of seeking wisdom...

Kropotkin
That's a pretty poor binary schema. When people disagree or criticize points that is a core part of both humanism and enlightenment practices.
Instead of people telling us the truth from pulpits and thrones, we the common people can debate, respond with our own ideas, interact with the ideas of others and test ideas.

What strikes me immediately in reading the op is that humanism is, like enlightenment philosophy, also focused very much on individualism and that conservatism, at least many versions of it came out of enlightenment and humanist ideals ALSO. Not just liberalism. And that earlier threads of yours have criticized conservatives for individualism, as if this was a sign of their not being part of an enlightement tradition.

That said there is something quite life denying in the religions that emphasize the transcendant. They are often body denying, sexy denying, and demand a great deal of emotinal control: the Abrahamic religions. Buddhism can follow this, though with a very different set of practices and beliefs.

But oddly these life-denying patterns are also mirrored in the history of civilization, which has also tried very hard to distinguish itself from barbarians/heathens/pagans by judging these groups as too sexual, too impulsive, too physical and too connected to natures.

Also when we are on this topic I think it's good to mention that women have been painted as bodies, closer than men to nature and generally as precisely for those reasons not being as rational or mature as men.

IOW this is very complicated.
Maia
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:11 am
Location: UK

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by Maia »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:02 am My own writing is an example of humanism at work.....at
the heart of my writings, lies a profound belief in the human experience...

I hold to the human experience...of living, love, hope, beauty, sunsets,
knowledge... all of which translate onto philosophical areas...
Aesthetics, epistemology, finding a way of life (and finding a way of
life should be an area of philosophy) morals/ethics... are all areas of
the human experience....(and so much more) but note, I haven't discounted
those other areas, they are others who might engage in my areas of neglect..
language games, or Metaphysics or theology... those areas just have little or no
interest for me...

I am seeking to what it means to be human... not in connection to
god or to "being saved" which is at the heart of the religious experience..

(to be saved as a goal, as a point of existence, demeans and dehumanizes the
human experience... it turns the human experience into a performance for
being saved and thus diminishing the human experience)

I favor putting the human experience as the criteria for our understanding
of what it means to be human...with the understanding that within
the scope of being human lies hope, love, peace, beauty, sunsets,
knowledge..... as a means of exploring our human nature...

I am a humanist because I put the human experience first,
not god or religion or any ism/ ideology, but human
experiences..... which means I can defend the positive
activities of ecology and conservation of the earth as we
come from and form an integral part of the earth...
our experience of being human flow directly from
our experience of living on earth.....

I am human and that means, I come from earth....
so to say, I am human means I am earth.....

and that is the human experience... to come from earth..

Kropotkin
That sounds like a fairly good description of Paganism. At least in my own opinion, that is.
bobmax
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:38 am

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by bobmax »

The spirit does not exist.

If it existed, it would not be spirit but body.

"We must be faithful to the earth".
But in what sense?

In the sense of not inventing another world that does not exist.

Why then is there this idea of ​​a spirit that cannot exist anyway?
Because this life is insufficient.
Here is evil.

And then we set out in search of what cancels all evil.
That is, the spirit, which cannot exist.

And yet the spirit must be, it does not exist but it is!

There is an immeasurable difference between being and existing.
And I can feel this incommensurability in every direction I deepen existence: it fades into nothingness.

And this nothing is the Being, the Spirit.
Age
Posts: 20205
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by Age »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:36 pm a famous statement during the Middle Ages and thereafter:

" The spirit gives life, but the body is of no use"

and as I am of the earth, this is not true.....
I am body and not spirit...

because can I touch the body, I can hear the body, I can taste the body,
I can smell the body and I can see the body.. I cannot physically
touch, see, smell, taste or hear the spirit.. how can something be true if
it cannot be witness by the senses.... how can be something be true if I cannot
show it exists?

Now some pompous, pedantic will undoubtably try to bring up some sort of
silliness to prove me wrong.. instead of attempting to understand what I am
saying... trying to score points instead of seeking wisdom...

Kropotkin
Is it NOT possible that you could be expressing Falsehoods, Wrong, or Incorrect?
Age
Posts: 20205
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by Age »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:02 am My own writing is an example of humanism at work.....at
the heart of my writings, lies a profound belief in the human experience...

I hold to the human experience...of living, love, hope, beauty, sunsets,
knowledge... all of which translate onto philosophical areas...
Aesthetics, epistemology, finding a way of life (and finding a way of
life should be an area of philosophy) morals/ethics... are all areas of
the human experience....(and so much more) but note, I haven't discounted
those other areas, they are others who might engage in my areas of neglect..
language games, or Metaphysics or theology... those areas just have little or no
interest for me...

I am seeking to what it means to be human... not in connection to
god or to "being saved" which is at the heart of the religious experience..

(to be saved as a goal, as a point of existence, demeans and dehumanizes the
human experience... it turns the human experience into a performance for
being saved and thus diminishing the human experience)

I favor putting the human experience as the criteria for our understanding
of what it means to be human...with the understanding that within
the scope of being human lies hope, love, peace, beauty, sunsets,
knowledge..... as a means of exploring our human nature...

I am a humanist because I put the human experience first,
not god or religion or any ism/ ideology, but human
experiences.....
LOL I am a "humanist" who BELIEVES in 'humanism', but I do NOT put any 'ism' BEFORE human experience.

LOL Some human beings are SO BLINDED by their OWN human being BELIEFS, which are a direct result of human body experiences by the way, that they can NOT even SEE Truly BLATANTLY OBVIOUS CONTRADICTIONS in what they SAY, WRITE, and CLAIM. As PROVEN AGAIN, ONCE MORE, just here.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:02 am which means I can defend the positive
activities of ecology and conservation of the earth as we
come from and form an integral part of the earth...
our experience of being human flow directly from
our experience of living on earth.....
The Fact that human beings OBVIOUSLY come from earth does NOT necessarily mean that 'you' can 'defend' ANY thing here. Except for defending the Fact that 'you', human beings, CAME FROM earth.

But ,THEN, where did earth COME FROM?
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:02 am I am human and that means, I come from earth....
LOL If only 'you' KNEW "peter kropotkin". If only 'you' KNEW.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:02 am so to say, I am human means I am earth.....
And WHERE do 'you' think or BELIEVE 'earth' CAME FROM.

Also, to say, "I am human", does NOT mean that 'I' am earth. What that means IS, is 'I' am human. Which, if 'you' only KNEW, is about one of the most ABSURD and RIDICULOUS ASSUMPTIONS and CLAIMS made in this forum.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:02 am and that is the human experience... to come from earth..

Kropotkin
LOL

'you' say and CLAIM some of the WEIRDEST things here "peter kropotkin".

And what is Truly FUNNY here is that 'you' actual BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY, without ANY room for ANY thing else, in what you SAY and CLAIM here.
Age
Posts: 20205
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by Age »

bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am The spirit does not exist.

If it existed, it would not be spirit but body.
LOL
LOL
LOL

The spirit does NOT exist, but IF the spirit existed, then the spirit would NOT be spirit but would be body instead.

'you' make me LAUGH "bobmax".
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am "We must be faithful to the earth".
But in what sense?
First off WHO says and CLAIMS that 'we' MUST, and therefore HAVE TO BE, 'faithful' to the earth?

And then WHY?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am In the sense of not inventing another world that does not exist.
So, if ANY one does invent or even just imagines ANOTHER 'world' besides the 'earth world', then what is the earth going to actually do about it?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am Why then is there this idea of ​​a spirit that cannot exist anyway?
LOL More like WHY do 'you', "bobmax" BELIEVE with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that a spirit can NOT even exist let alone does NOT exist?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am Because this life is insufficient.
WHAT 'life', EXACTLY?

The one here on earth, which 'you', adult human beings, are rapidly DESTROYING, or the one here on earth where relatively speaking there is really not that much longer to go?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am Here is evil.
WHERE? In YOUR words here?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am And then we set out in search of what cancels all evil.
WHY do 'you', "bobmax", do this?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am That is, the spirit, which cannot exist.
So, 'you', "bobmax", go out SEARCHING for 'that', which 'you' BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY does NOT even exist, correct?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am And yet the spirit must be, it does not exist but it is!
WHY do you SAY and CLAIM this "bobmax"?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am There is an immeasurable difference between being and existing.
So, if you can NOT measure the difference, then HOW do you KNOW that there is even an ACTUAL DIFFERENCE?
bobmax wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:51 am And I can feel this incommensurability in every direction I deepen existence: it fades into nothingness.

And this nothing is the Being, the Spirit.
So, the Spirit ACTUALLY DOES EXIST, NOW, correct?
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Agent Smith
Posts: 1442
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:23 pm

Re: Humanism: a lost word....

Post by Agent Smith »

What is it like to be human?

Most interesting!

Perhaps we should make a list. Slavery, Genocide, etc. on one side and Love, Altruism, etc. on another and a continuum betwixt the two.
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