Kropotkin's prejudice...

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Harbal
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Harbal »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:12 pm Yes. I think it is natural to identify with people when they do things. If I see someone fall down, I may wince. Those people who can pull their thumb down on their wrist, I hate seeing that. It's not a moral issue in those case.
If I see two men kissing, because I don't want to kiss a man, I react as if I am in the image. If I see two women kissing, no problem.
I've noticed a tendency for people to react negatively to when couples with the same sex as them kiss but not the opposite sex.

I see no reason to overcome my reaction. I have nothing against men kissing and would fight legislation trying to stop them kissing. But I have my reaction. No problem.
You've pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:19 pm Now for those who think I shared too much, I am simply following
Socrates in this thread..

and what are the two sayings of Socrates?

1. To know thyself
2. the unexamined life isn't worth living...

In this thread, I have followed the Socratic saying to a T....
have you followed Socrates advice?

Kropotkin
I, unreasonably I admit, don't like it when one of the guys at work cracks open a cheese and tomato sandwich and then somehow creates a symphonic racket by eating it, the noises he makes when consuming his dull and in proper circumstances more or less silent lunch kinda make my skin crawl. but like I say, I am aware that there's no particularly good reason for this hangup of mine.

What I don't do with this information is compare myself to fucking Socrates because that would be fatuous wankery.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Iwannaplato »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:50 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:19 pm Now for those who think I shared too much, I am simply following
Socrates in this thread..

and what are the two sayings of Socrates?

1. To know thyself
2. the unexamined life isn't worth living...

In this thread, I have followed the Socratic saying to a T....
have you followed Socrates advice?

Kropotkin
I, unreasonably I admit, don't like it when one of the guys at work cracks open a cheese and tomato sandwich and then somehow creates a symphonic racket by eating it, the noises he makes when consuming his dull and in proper circumstances more or less silent lunch kinda make my skin crawl. but like I say, I am aware that there's no particularly good reason for this hangup of mine.

What I don't do with this information is compare myself to fucking Socrates because that would be fatuous wankery.
LLOL.
Literally Laughing Out Loud. Sad to need to distinguish this from the mere LOL, but I think LOL is a non-literal trope most of the time, so I want to be clear. And good on ya.
bobmax
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by bobmax »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:37 pm
bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:56 pm I think the hardest thing is to see who we really are.
Even if who we are is being thrown into our faces all the time.

I thought I was basically good, but I was wrong.

I should take note of all that I really am.
But I'm afraid of it.

Yet I will never really be free if I don't face myself.
But every time I try, here I find myself in hell.
One does need to go step by step. And to be as nice and forgiving of oneself as possible. This is not to say one rationalizes away what one did or that one should try to say it wasn't that bad. But rather to try to understand why you did it and what might have led you to be in such a state or have such an attitude. Parenting, culture, trauma, neglect, mistreatment, bad influences, misinformation, confusion and much more can lead to us doing, believing and thinking all sorts of things that we later regret. If we can truly face not only what we did but also why we did it, then forgiveness or at least acceptance of ourselves can come in. And the most important thing is that we would not think or do it again, that we learned. Guilt and shame are worthless. Regret however can be part of a flow towards change. You wouldn't want to be like that or do that again. You face what you did and what it led to. You don't like that. That's who you are. You are the person who does not like that, not the person who did it.

Not that I find that easy, but that's how I think of it.
Thanks for these words of yours.
These are the words of a wise man with his feet on the ground.

However, what I am experiencing does not allow me to be realistic.
Because that's exactly what appears real, because that's the way the world goes, which doesn't suit me.

A person very close to me is now dead, and there is no rational reasoning that can make sense of this fact.

Nothing swallows up everything.

My only hope is that the purpose of all this is the death of my soul.
That is, the end of the illusion of my own self.

Only in this way can all evil be truly erased, because it never existed.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Iwannaplato »

bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:26 pm Thanks for these words of yours.
These are the words of a wise man with his feet on the ground.

However, what I am experiencing does not allow me to be realistic.
Because that's exactly what appears real, because that's the way the world goes, which doesn't suit me.

A person very close to me is now dead, and there is no rational reasoning that can make sense of this fact.

Nothing swallows up everything.

My only hope is that the purpose of all this is the death of my soul.
That is, the end of the illusion of my own self.

Only in this way can all evil be truly erased, because it never existed.
I'm sorry for your loss. I am not sure what you mean about not being allowed to be realistic.
I'll tell a little true story just to jog alongside you for a moment.
A couple of years ago I had a huge blow up with my best local friend (and it only got vastly more toxic after that). Then there was a life threatening illness in my family. Then the man who was my best friend for most of my life died. We had not had much contact for years, but luckily we contacted each other a few months before he died and I just wrote him a letter of thanks for what he had been to me. I didn't go into our problems. I didn't deny them, but I focused on how important he had been to me. He was pleased and hinted at upcoming contact. Then his communication got strange. Then I heard he died of a heart attack. I felt very lucky that we had some good contact before he left. That I had managed to say what I needed to say, not that I had any idea it would be a more permanent goodbye.
My guess is whatever your situation is, you didn't get lucky like I did.
But I do know how horrible it would have been if I hadn't. And I didn't get that chance with my mother. I sort of did with my father.
I know how horrible it was because even though I was lucky and I suppose sort of brave and open, I still feel a huge regret for my part in us drifting apart. I still get ripped up, every week, I would say now, but it was much more often before. Not just about what I did and didn't do. More that he is not in the world right now and all that entails.
bobmax
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by bobmax »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:38 pm
bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:26 pm Thanks for these words of yours.
These are the words of a wise man with his feet on the ground.

However, what I am experiencing does not allow me to be realistic.
Because that's exactly what appears real, because that's the way the world goes, which doesn't suit me.

A person very close to me is now dead, and there is no rational reasoning that can make sense of this fact.

Nothing swallows up everything.

My only hope is that the purpose of all this is the death of my soul.
That is, the end of the illusion of my own self.

Only in this way can all evil be truly erased, because it never existed.
I'm sorry for your loss. I am not sure what you mean about not being allowed to be realistic.
I'll tell a little true story just to jog alongside you for a moment.
A couple of years ago I had a huge blow up with my best local friend (and it only got vastly more toxic after that). Then there was a life threatening illness in my family. Then the man who was my best friend for most of my life died. We had not had much contact for years, but luckily we contacted each other a few months before he died and I just wrote him a letter of thanks for what he had been to me. I didn't go into our problems. I didn't deny them, but I focused on how important he had been to me. He was pleased and hinted at upcoming contact. Then his communication got strange. Then I heard he died of a heart attack. I felt very lucky that we had some good contact before he left. That I had managed to say what I needed to say, not that I had any idea it would be a more permanent goodbye.
My guess is whatever your situation is, you didn't get lucky like I did.
But I do know how horrible it would have been if I hadn't. And I didn't get that chance with my mother. I sort of did with my father.
I know how horrible it was because even though I was lucky and I suppose sort of brave and open, I still feel a huge regret for my part in us drifting apart. I still get ripped up, every week, I would say now, but it was much more often before. Not just about what I did and didn't do. More that he is not in the world right now and all that entails.
You were lucky to talk to your friend before it was too late.
Remembering what unites you and not what divides you.

Other times this pacification does not happen.
But both in one case and in the other, death always brings an insurmountable void.

Who, what did I love now that the object of love is gone?

If I keep my love still, because what really matters is precisely this love, it can happen that the suspicion arises in me that the beloved never really existed...

That is, no one died, because no one lived.
While what really there was, and there is, is precisely this love.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:50 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:19 pm Now for those who think I shared too much, I am simply following
Socrates in this thread..

and what are the two sayings of Socrates?

1. To know thyself
2. the unexamined life isn't worth living...

In this thread, I have followed the Socratic saying to a T....
have you followed Socrates advice?

Kropotkin
I, unreasonably I admit, don't like it when one of the guys at work cracks open a cheese and tomato sandwich and then somehow creates a symphonic racket by eating it, the noises he makes when consuming his dull and in proper circumstances more or less silent lunch kinda make my skin crawl. but like I say, I am aware that there's no particularly good reason for this hangup of mine.

What I don't do with this information is compare myself to fucking Socrates because that would be fatuous wankery.
Big 'up thumb' (I forget how to do them) :)
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:50 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:19 pm Now for those who think I shared too much, I am simply following
Socrates in this thread..

and what are the two sayings of Socrates?

1. To know thyself
2. the unexamined life isn't worth living...

In this thread, I have followed the Socratic saying to a T....
have you followed Socrates advice?

Kropotkin

FT: I, unreasonably I admit, don't like it when one of the guys at work cracks open a cheese and tomato sandwich and then somehow creates a symphonic racket by eating it, the noises he makes when consuming his dull and in proper circumstances more or less silent lunch kinda make my skin crawl. but like I say, I am aware that there's no particularly good reason for this hangup of mine.

What I don't do with this information is compare myself to fucking Socrates because that would be fatuous wankery.
K: I didn't compare myself with Socrates, I said I followed him..
big difference and one you may want to consider

Kropotkin
Iwannaplato
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Iwannaplato »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:53 am K: I didn't compare myself with Socrates, I said I followed him..
big difference and one you may want to consider

Kropotkin
You said you were following his sayings to a T. IOW you were doing what he did; following those two core principles perfectly( to a T) in this thread. I think that qualifies as comparing yourself to Socrates. You were doing what he was doing.
And you have little trouble comparing yourself to famous figures.....
I stand with
those who are considered to be heretics, troublemakers, traitors..
indeed, I stand with those like Luther, Washington, Adams, Jefferson,
Gandhi, MLK..
This, too...this feedback you are getting, also offers a chance to know thyself.
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