Kropotkin's prejudice...

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Peter Kropotkin
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Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

It must be made clear that I am old, 63,
and raised in a different time and place.....

I have noticed that in seeing men kiss,
that I am very, very uncomfortable....
I am a long time married man..
and a far left liberal and yet, in I can't even look at two men kissing....
and I admit that that is a bias, a prejudice that I have.....
and I fully support gay rights, marriage, divorce, adapting kids,
all the rights that I have, gays should have.. and yet, my
discomfort at seeing men kiss cannot be denied...
it is a full-on emotional response that has nothing to do with
reason or logic or rationality...

This emotional response comes from my childhood indoctrinations,
my ''education", my place and time of birth... my family...
and the question arises, how do I "overcome" this emotional response?

my answer lies in an old trick I learned decades ago...
and I call it, "who has the problem?"

Perhaps the single most important lesson I ever learned was
this question of "who has the problem?"

To refer back to my problem, I ask, when seeing two men kiss,
who has the problem, the men kissing or me?
Quite clearly, the one with the problem is me...and I am the
one who must adapt, change....

Will I ever overcome my antipathy to seeing men kiss?

To be honest, I doubt it...But I am aware of my discomfort, and I attempt
to overcome it every single day... which is the best I can do...
awareness and control...my solution to my own bias and prejudice.

Kropotkin
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phyllo
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by phyllo »

You've been indoctrinated to be ashamed of your aversion and discomfort.
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

phyllo wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:31 pm You've been indoctrinated to be ashamed of your aversion and discomfort.
K: perhaps, perhaps, but I still need to, in modern language,
I need to "Own it"....before I can overcome it...

Kropotkin
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Harbal
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Harbal »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:25 pm Will I ever overcome my antipathy to seeing men kiss?
Perhaps, when you next see two men kissing, just imagine what they might be doing when they are behind closed doors. After that, the sight of them just kissing might not seem so bad. :|
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phyllo
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by phyllo »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:34 pm
phyllo wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:31 pm You've been indoctrinated to be ashamed of your aversion and discomfort.
K: perhaps, perhaps, but I still need to, in modern language,
I need to "Own it"....before I can overcome it...

Kropotkin
They tell you that you're supposed to overcome it ... that what you feel is wrong.

You don't need to overcome it.
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Harbal
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Harbal »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:34 pm I need to "Own it"....before I can overcome it...
Why are you making such a fuss about it? I mean, how often do you find yourself confronted by kissing men?
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

so, am I just supposed to be happy and comfortable with
being biased and prejudice? I don't think so...

Regardless if I was trained (educated) to biased
either way, including your suggestion, I must allow others the
exact same rights that I demand for myself and my wife...
We too kiss in public, and what if, for whatever reason,
others feel the same way about our kissing as I do about gays kissing,
in Iran, for example where public displays of affection are discouraged,
how should I deny to others, what I ask for myself?

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

Harbal wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:45 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:34 pm I need to "Own it"....before I can overcome it...
Why are you making such a fuss about it? I mean, how often do you find yourself confronted by kissing men?

K: It isn't necessarily about kissing per se, it is about confronting those
biases and prejudice that we ALL have and possible solutions to these
bias and prejudice and the second answer is I live in the San Francisco area..
on the Peninsula.. see it every day... but as I suggested, who has the problem
leads me to acknowledging that I have the problem, and not those men...

Kropotkin
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phyllo
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by phyllo »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:54 pm
Harbal wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:45 pm
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:34 pm I need to "Own it"....before I can overcome it...
Why are you making such a fuss about it? I mean, how often do you find yourself confronted by kissing men?

K: It isn't necessarily about kissing per se, it is about confronting those
biases and prejudice that we ALL have and possible solutions to these
bias and prejudice and the second answer is I live in the San Francisco area..
on the Peninsula.. see it every day... but as I suggested, who has the problem
leads me to acknowledging that I have the problem, and not those men...

Kropotkin
And what makes you think that your reaction is the problem and not that homosexuality is the problem?
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Harbal
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Harbal »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:54 pm
K: It isn't necessarily about kissing per se, it is about confronting those
biases and prejudice that we ALL have and possible solutions to these
bias and prejudice and the second answer is I live in the San Francisco area..
on the Peninsula.. see it every day... but as I suggested, who has the problem
leads me to acknowledging that I have the problem, and not those men...
But do you disapprove of men kissing each other? That is the point. If you do disapprove, then I agree, you should do something to address that, but if it is merely a distaste for witnessing it, just learn to put up with it. We all have to see things that aren't to our liking from time to time; it's just part of life.
promethean75
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by promethean75 »

"so, am I just supposed to be happy and comfortable with
being biased and prejudice?"

absolutely. you need not intellectually question and be suspicious of the natural repulsion you feel when observing and/or thinking about homosexual men. you go with your gut on this one, keter propotkin. and phyllo is right to say that you've also been indoctrinated to feel ashamed of those feelings.

but now none of this means you have to interfere with the rights of homosexual men. let em do whatever they want so long as the homosexuality doesn't interfere with you.

the philosophical questioning part is about the nature of that interference, what constitutes an interference, etc.

for example, you may not want a homosexual male around your family. that's not terribly unreasonable. on the other hand, not wanting a homosexual male to be in office or refusing to have one as a coworker might be a bit excessive.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:48 pm so, am I just supposed to be happy and comfortable with
being biased and prejudice? I don't think so...
You can opt to confront the problem instead. All you gotta do is pop out those dentures, kneel before the glory hole, and make Britain proud.
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Harbal
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by Harbal »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:03 pm
You can opt to confront the problem instead. All you gotta do is pop out those dentures, kneel before the glory hole, and make Britain proud.
I think they call that exposure therapy, or something. It might just work. :idea:
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Feelings can't be 'right' or 'wrong'. They just 'are'. So what if you don't like it?
I get more irritated than anything, because just about everything you watch on TV has token 'same sex' sex and kissing to 'educate' us about 'inclusivity' (or cynically pander to the powerful wokie lobby and disguise it as 'caring').
I don't like watching 'any' deep throat sexual kissing with tongues. Only a weirdo would enjoy it.
Actors do love to show how 'woke' they are as well. Have a look at this doozy (non gay actors). Starts at 1:18.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mmYVJ4 ... rkCalloway
promethean75
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Re: Kropotkin's prejudice...

Post by promethean75 »

holy crap the glory hole. yo i got a story for ya and i am totally not bullshitting you. sometime around nineteen years old i went into one of those sex shops with the beat off booths in the back. fuck it man i wanted to see what this was about. i had known of sex paraphernalia shops and whatnot but until a friend told me, i didn't know beat off booths existed. i think at the time - I say nineteen but I'm not certain - i wuz livin in my car, so the opportunity to see some good porn videos and maybe go ahead and pop one off if I'm locked and concealed in a booth and nobody's around, couldn't be passed up.

boy wuz I wrong.

so I'm standing in the booth clicking through the videos with one hand - there's like twenty playing and you can toggle through them - and jackin off with the other hand, and i hear this very faint 'yo' though the booth wall. so i look down and there's this fuckin hole in the wall waist high and about two inches in diameter. then another whisper: yo, lemme suck yo d**k!'

immediately i walked out, never to return to a sex shop again.

i dunno what happened. i don't know if this dude was already in the booth beside me and saw me through the hole or if he followed me in. needless to say i was freaked out.
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