In defense of PC speech..

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Peter Kropotkin
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In defense of PC speech..

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

In reading the IAM thread about the queen and there were
several comments about PC and the monarchy reaction...

for those who whine about PC speech, apparently have no understanding
of history... given historical reality, we are, right now, have far greater
ability to have open and free speech than at any other time in history..
the only historical time that allowed more free and open speech was
during Ancient Athens...

Think about one's ability to openly say whatever is on your mind....
until recently, you couldn't do that... you had both political and
religious censorship.. or do think one before the French Revolution
one could say that the Catholic church was corrupt, or that god was
dead or that the King was an idiot? Hardly... To openly say what was on
your mind was an excellent way to be sent to prison or even executed...

Why do you think that Descartes was so worried about what he wrote?
Galileo was put on house arrest during Descartes life.. and Descartes
noticed... you were putting your life in your hands if you spoke ill
of king, nation, god or the pope... and this was just as true in
France and England, Italy, Spain and the small German states...
(of course, different places had variations of what one could disrespect)

But at no point, during the last 2000 years, could one freely and openly
say what was on one's mind....or do you think you could doubt god
or the pope during any point in time during the Middle ages?
or trash Mohammed in the Muslim world even today?

Today we are more able to speak our minds than any other time in
history...Unlike earlier times, I can trash Biden, IQ45, the U.S.,
the church, god, Mohammed, Jesus, and have no political, religious
or social blowback....

which is vastly different than at any other time in history...

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: In defense of PC speech..

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm In reading the IAM thread about the queen and there were
several comments about PC and the monarchy reaction...

for those who whine about PC speech, apparently have no understanding
of history... given historical reality, we are, right now, have far greater
ability to have open and free speech than at any other time in history..
the only historical time that allowed more free and open speech was
during Ancient Athens...

Think about one's ability to openly say whatever is on your mind....
until recently, you couldn't do that... you had both political and
religious censorship.. or do you think one before the French Revolution
one could say that the Catholic church was corrupt, or that god was
dead or that the King was an idiot? Hardly... To openly say what was on
your mind was an excellent way to be sent to prison or even executed...

Why do you think that Descartes was so worried about what he wrote?
Galileo was put on house arrest during Descartes life.. and Descartes
noticed... you were putting your life in your hands if you spoke ill
of king, nation, god or the pope... and this was just as true in
France and England, Italy, Spain and the small German states...
(of course, different places had variations of what one could disrespect)

But at no point, during the last 2000 years, could one freely and openly
say what was on one's mind....or do you think you could doubt god
or the pope during any point in time during the Middle ages?
or trash Mohammed in the Muslim world even today?

Today we are more able to speak our minds than any other time in
history...Unlike earlier times, I can trash Biden, IQ45, the U.S.,
the church, god, Mohammed, Jesus, and have no political, religious
or social blowback....

which is vastly different than at any other time in history...

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
Posts: 1455
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am

Re: In defense of PC speech..

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

my duplicate post shows what happens when I post
before breakfast...

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: In defense of PC speech..

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

ok, ate breakfast, let's try some more..

ok, now note I live in a very blue state...
about a half hour drive from San Francisco..
and I could stand on a street corner around my small
town and shout pretty much anti-everything and not
get bothered.. during the last two elections, 2020 and 2016, we had
pro-trump people standing on the main drag of our town and
be very anti-democratic, anti-Clinton, anti- Biden.. and no one
said a word.. it was no big deal... but try saying anti-IQ45 stuff in
small town red state.... you might get arrested but more likely
you will get harassed and/or threaten by some pro-IQ45er...
or try saying anti-god stuff in a red state.. it won't end well for you...

but that is my point... the blue states are far more forgiving and
tolerant... one might talk about PC speech but denying free speech
is a red state thing than a blue state thing.. and as the country and
state become more conservative, the less likely one will be able to
engage in free speech or speak bad of god, country, IQ45, or even guns...

or said another way, it is red states that practice the cancel culture,
not the blue states..

Kropotkin
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attofishpi
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Re: In defense of PC speech..

Post by attofishpi »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:12 pm my duplicate post shows what happens when I post
before breakfast...

Kropotkin
<big delete>

...sorry Peter, I always feel guilty in the morning, not sure Y, maybe I'll start a thread about it...maybe it's the same way chicks feel guilty about having slept with me.
Age
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Re: In defense of PC speech..

Post by Age »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm In reading the IAM thread about the queen and there were
several comments about PC and the monarchy reaction...

for those who whine about PC speech, apparently have no understanding
of history... given historical reality, we are, right now, have far greater
ability to have open and free speech than at any other time in history..
"ANY"?

How far back do you ACTUALLY GO?
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm the only historical time that allowed more free and open speech was
during Ancient Athens...
So, there WAS now an ACTUAL OTHER TIME, REALLY.

And, which was just relatively only a VERY, VERY SHORT time ago.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm Think about one's ability to openly say whatever is on your mind....
until recently, you couldn't do that...
What place do you imagine one could do this, FULLY?

Is one able to OPENLY say to the so-called "president" of "some states" in a place labeled "america", for example, and OPENLY say whatever they want to say, without ANY repercussions AT ALL?

If yes, then are you REALLY SURE?

But if no, then one's ability to OPENLY say whatever they like might not be as true as you first thought or realized.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm you had both political and
religious censorship.. or do think one before the French Revolution
one could say that the Catholic church was corrupt, or that god was
dead or that the King was an idiot? Hardly... To openly say what was on
your mind was an excellent way to be sent to prison or even executed...
Well you could OPENLY say those 'things', what would happen next may, however, be unwelcome.

Just like in the place and period that 'you' are living in, one is NOT able to say OPENLY absolutely EVERY thing they may want to, because of some 'unwelcome repercussion'.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm Why do you think that Descartes was so worried about what he wrote?
I NEVER knew that human being was. Did "descartes" SAY that they were 'worried' about what they wrote?
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm Galileo was put on house arrest during Descartes life..
Just like people are put on 'banned list' on forums, in the days when this is being written, for just SAYING what "others", with "power", do NOT want to HEAR, let alone LOOK AT and DISCUSS.

Most of the people in this forum are here, I think, because they have been kicked out of other forums, where here, in this forum it seems near IMPOSSIBLE to be 'banned', put on "house arrest", and/or SHUT UPPED.

But I am pretty sure together we could think of a few things that, if said, would get us ALSO kicked out of this forum, and thus SHUT UP as well.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm and Descartes
noticed... you were putting your life in your hands if you spoke ill
of king, nation, god or the pope...
Go to parts of BOTH "muslim" and "christian" countries, "afghanistan" and "america" alike, and speak ill of God, and then see what REALLY happens.

Some of the people in "america" are EXACTLY like some of the people in "afghanistan". In fact some so-called "christians" WILL KILL 'you' DEAD quicker than the people do in "muslim" countries, for just telling the Truth, OPENLY, about "their (so-called) God". And, if you do NOT believe me, then just ask "henry quirk" about just how quick some "americans" WILL KILL "others", including "their" OWN 'selves'.

Being able to say OPENLY whatever one likes is NOT as easy, and REALLY as possible, as some may BELIEVE it is. That was; back in the days when this was being written anyway.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm and this was just as true in
France and England, Italy, Spain and the small German states...
(of course, different places had variations of what one could disrespect)
Of course, just like different states in that place called "america" has variations of what one could disrespect.

In some places, in that country, one could disrespect the WHOLE so-called "democratic" voting system.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm But at no point, during the last 2000 years, could one freely and openly
say what was on one's mind....or do you think you could doubt god
or the pope during any point in time during the Middle ages?
or trash Mohammed in the Muslim world even today?
So, if there was NOT one actual point, hitherto when this is being written, that one could ACTUALLY OPENLY say WHATEVER, then WHY do 'you' think or believe that in those times when this was being written 'you', human beings, had a greater ability to OPEN and FREE speech?

In the days when this was being written, 'you' were KEPT CLOSED and CHAINED just like in those other days. 'you' are just KEPT CLOSED and BLOCKED from Truly OPEN FREE speech because of DIFFERENT 'things'.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm Today we are more able to speak our minds than any other time in
history...
Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE?

And, when 'you' say 'we', are you referring to ALL of 'you', or just SOME of 'you', and WHERE are 'you' referring to, EXACTLY?

The WHOLE planet or just in some small or narrowed parcels, on this planet?

See, what some people REALLY have and hold are just VERY SMALL or NARROWED views of 'things', but 'try to' transfer that very small picture onto a much LARGER PICTURE of 'things'. But which does NOT REALLY WORK, I will add, when challenged through questioning.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm Unlike earlier times, I can trash Biden, IQ45, the U.S.,
the church, god, Mohammed, Jesus, and have no political, religious
or social blowback....
REALLY?

'Trash' "biden" to its children, 'trash' the "u.s" to a staunch "u.s. citizen", 'trash' the church and God to a strict "religionist", 'trash' "mohammed", to a "muslim", and 'trash' "jesus" to "immanual can", for examples, and see if there is REALLY NO political, religious, NOR social blow back AT ALL.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm which is vastly different than at any other time in history...

Kropotkin
How narrowed and small some people's views REALLY ARE.
Age
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Re: In defense of PC speech..

Post by Age »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:45 pm ok, ate breakfast, let's try some more..

ok, now note I live in a very blue state...
about a half hour drive from San Francisco..
and I could stand on a street corner around my small
town and shout pretty much anti-everything and not
get bothered..
Although you would be 'bothering' "others" correct?

Also, when you say, "pretty much anti-everything", what you REALLY MEAN is NOT absolutely 'anti' EVERY thing, correct?

What are the things that you could NOT shout in that one very small and particular spot?

And, WHY, EXACTLY, could you NOT shout 'those things'?

And, what is the ACTUAL DIFFERENCE between you NOT being able to do this, in 'your' time, compared to the other times?
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:45 pm during the last two elections, 2020 and 2016, we had
pro-trump people standing on the main drag of our town and
be very anti-democratic, anti-Clinton, anti- Biden.. and no one
said a word..
Do you commonly base 'that', which happens on "the main drag" or on "the corner" of some, admittedly, 'small town', on what happens in the REST OF THE WORLD?

There was something on the 'news', if I recall correctly, about things being said, by some people, about there being anti-democratic, anti-clinton, anti-biden, or other anti-things being expressed by some so-called "pro-supporters", standing and marching on some "main drag", of some town, on some day in January 2022.

So, what this MEANS IS, 'that' what happens in 'your' small town does NOT necessarily provide an ACCURATE representation for the REST OF THE WORLD.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:45 pm it was no big deal... but try saying anti-IQ45 stuff in
small town red state.... you might get arrested but more likely
you will get harassed and/or threaten by some pro-IQ45er...
SO, is there MORE or LESS open and free speech, in the days when this is being written?

Or, are you just 'trying' ANOTHER WAY to, AGAIN, introduce your HATRED for the, supposed, OTHER "side", to you?
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:45 pm or try saying anti-god stuff in a red state.. it won't end well for you...
You started this thread 'trying to' argue that 'we', now, have MORE FREEDOM. But, since then, you have QUICKLY TURNED AROUND and are now saying and CLAIMING that REALLY 'we' do NOT have that OPENNESS and FREEDOM, AT ALL.
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:45 pm but that is my point... the blue states are far more forgiving and
tolerant...
If that IS YOUR POINT, then WHY did you NOT START OFF with THIS POINT?

WHY did you START with some OTHER POINT, and then just 'try to' "WEASEL" your REAL views and BELIEFS in here now?
Peter Kropotkin wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:45 pm one might talk about PC speech but denying free speech
is a red state thing than a blue state thing.. and as the country and
state become more conservative, the less likely one will be able to
engage in free speech or speak bad of god, country, IQ45, or even guns...

or said another way, it is red states that practice the cancel culture,
not the blue states..

Kropotkin
LUCKY THEN that 'you' are on the BLUE STATES "side", correct, hey?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: In defence of PC speech..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Another airhead American who doesn't understand what PC means and thinks that 'different' should be followed by 'than' :roll:
commonsense
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Re: In defence of PC speech..

Post by commonsense »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:56 am Another airhead American who doesn't understand what PC means and thinks that 'different' should be followed by 'than' :roll:
I don’t think I really know what PC means, and I don’t get what you’re saying about‘different’. Please explain.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: In defence of PC speech..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

commonsense wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:56 am Another airhead American who doesn't understand what PC means and thinks that 'different' should be followed by 'than' :roll:
I don’t think I really know what PC means, and I don’t get what you’re saying about‘different’. Please explain.
If you don't get it you don't get it. I'm not your mother.
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Re: In defence of PC speech..

Post by commonsense »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:27 pm
commonsense wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:56 am Another airhead American who doesn't understand what PC means and thinks that 'different' should be followed by 'than' :roll:
I don’t think I really know what PC means, and I don’t get what you’re saying about‘different’. Please explain.
If you don't get it you don't get it. I'm not your mother.
You think my dear, departed, deceased mother is the one to explain these things?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: In defence of PC speech..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

commonsense wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:53 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:27 pm
commonsense wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm

I don’t think I really know what PC means, and I don’t get what you’re saying about‘different’. Please explain.
If you don't get it you don't get it. I'm not your mother.
You think my dear, departed, deceased mother is the one to explain these things?
Probably
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Re: In defence of PC speech..

Post by commonsense »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:04 am
commonsense wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:53 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:27 pm

If you don't get it you don't get it. I'm not your mother.
You think my dear, departed, deceased mother is the one to explain these things?
Probably
:lol:
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: In defence of PC speech..

Post by Peter Kropotkin »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:27 pm
commonsense wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:56 am Another airhead American who doesn't understand what PC means and thinks that 'different' should be followed by 'than' :roll:
COMMON: I don’t think I really know what PC means, and I don’t get what you’re saying about‘different’. Please explain.
VE: If you don't get it you don't get it. I'm not your mother.
K: AH, the lazy defense of those who don't know what they are talking about...

"If you don't get it, you don't get it. I'm not your mother" as if common's mother
had anything to do with it.. that is just laziness on your part..
or are you afraid to actually attempt some real thought? Heaven forbid
you do some real thinking... I know your next move is to challenge me,
and if you are unable to fulfill this simple task I shall do so, but only because
you are unable to engage in real thought...

Kropotkin
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: In defence of PC speech..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Peter Kropotkin wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:26 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:27 pm
commonsense wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm

COMMON: I don’t think I really know what PC means, and I don’t get what you’re saying about‘different’. Please explain.
VE: If you don't get it you don't get it. I'm not your mother.
K: AH, the lazy defense of those who don't know what they are talking about...

"If you don't get it, you don't get it. I'm not your mother" as if common's mother
had anything to do with it.. that is just laziness on your part..
or are you afraid to actually attempt some real thought? Heaven forbid
you do some real thinking... I know your next move is to challenge me,
and if you are unable to fulfill this simple task I shall do so, but only because
you are unable to engage in real thought...

Kropotkin
There was really nothing else to be said, except that you are a pompous, self-important wanker
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