Your Natural State is Happiness

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Dontaskme
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Dontaskme »

roydop wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:17 pm

You just said that there was no such state as thought free Awareness so I showed you someone in exactly that state.

What are you trying to not see?
Why can't you just engage in a two way dialog with the people you are attempting to prove something to...that you now doubt they will be able to see? and why do you think that? is it because you think those that don't see things the way you do are beneath you?

Why didn't you answer the question below? What are you trying to not see here?

When you say ''ThoughtFree Awareness'' - Do you mean the state of being where no more ''thoughts'' ever appear to this being ever again?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Dontaskme »

roydop wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:59 pm If you ever find yourself in the depths of despair, know that there is an infinite ocean of peace and absolute happiness within you at all times in/as thought free Awareness.

This is your natural state.

I wish all of you the best.

🙏
''thoughtfree'' implies thought.

When discussing the theory of knowledge, as in knowing....as in I know....I am someone who knows...There is no escape hatch for any entity who claims to be aware of thought. As if 'awareness' and the 'thought realm' were two separate states independant of each other. They are conjoined twins. When one is absent so is the other.

Awareness of thought, is a duality where there is an apparent illusory subject-object division, known as the awareness of the conception of I ...this is a duality...that cannot not be, because duality is all that can be known.

So your theory is flawed.
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by roydop »

Duality is all that can be known

Being, which is transcendent of thought (the potential for thought) is Happiness

There is SO much resistance to simply being thought free. Why? What are you holding onto?

You were declaring me as the greatest philosopher of all time until I suggested that you spend less time at this forum. Not even to leave it. That made you completely flip and now you oppose pretty much everything I say.

Why the change? Why are you so threatened by the idea of not engaging in this thinkiddy think place?

The reason why people here don't want conclusion to the debate is because they rely on thought as their inferred existence. They know they exist, not in and of themselves, but relative to their thoughts. If they stop thinking they believe they won't exist.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

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roydop wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:54 pm Duality is all that can be known

Being, which is transcendent of thought (the potential for thought) is Happiness

There is SO much resistance to simply being thought free. Why? What are you holding onto?
No, being is not transcendent of thought. That which appears to transcend never transcended.
roydop wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:54 pmYou were declaring me as the greatest philosopher of all time until I suggested that you spend less time at this forum. Not even to leave it. That made you completely flip and now you oppose pretty much everything I say.

Why the change? Why are you so threatened by the idea of not engaging in this thinkiddy think place?
I changed my mind about you that's all. We're allowed to change our minds about things, otherwise we'd all be rigidly stuck in one frame of mind forever.

In knowledge we are all the greatest philosophers, in the story we believe about ourselves we can be any hero we choose, and play any role.
In my story, Roy was for awhile, one of the greatest philosophers, who was then dismissed with immediate effect from my
friend zone, why, because you treated me as if I was an irritant to you, when I asked you for multiple clarifications as to what it was exactly that you wanted me to ask Rick regarding the ''Buddha at the Gas Pump'' issue. I had no idea what you were asking me to do, so you just dismissed me and said never mind, just forget it... which came across as an irritated impatient person, even though I was genuinely willing to help you out, even though you could have just sorted it out for yourself, but rather than do that, you seemed to have wanted me to do it, then got impatient with me when I didn't understand what it was you were asking me to do for you.

Your just not my type, and that's all there is to it. Nothing personal. Just not for me.
I changed my mind about you and your theory. Even though I already know what your theory is pointing to. But it's just another human man-made theory that's all, one of many.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Dontaskme »

roydop wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:54 pm
The reason why people here don't want conclusion to the debate is because they rely on thought as their inferred existence. They know they exist, not in and of themselves, but relative to their thoughts. If they stop thinking they believe they won't exist.
That's just the most ridiculous thought I've ever heard.

First of all as thinking beings, there is no way for this being to stop thinking just as there is no way for this being to stop the heart pumping or stop breathing, or for this being to stop itself from falling asleep at night, or from waking up each morning. Have you tried that Roy, have you tried stopping yourself from waking up in the morning? :lol:

The belief I won't exist without my thoughts is a ludicrous idea. Have you Roy, ever experienced your own absence, I mean have you really?

And who do you think is here right now experiencing it's own presence Roy, is that not just the Roy thought?


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Iwannaplato
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Iwannaplato »

roydop wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:54 pm Duality is all that can be known

Being, which is transcendent of thought (the potential for thought) is Happiness

There is SO much resistance to simply being thought free. Why? What are you holding onto?

You were declaring me as the greatest philosopher of all time until I suggested that you spend less time at this forum. Not even to leave it. That made you completely flip and now you oppose pretty much everything I say.

Why the change? Why are you so threatened by the idea of not engaging in this thinkiddy think place?

The reason why people here don't want conclusion to the debate is because they rely on thought as their inferred existence. They know they exist, not in and of themselves, but relative to their thoughts. If they stop thinking they believe they won't exist.
There may be someone or some like this but your mind reading skills are weaker than you think.

And here you can see that other minds are not accessible to you, especially if you don't listen to them...
why, because you treated me as if I was an irritant to you, when I asked you for multiple clarifications as to what it was exactly that you wanted me to ask Rick regarding the ''Buddha at the Gas Pump'' issue. I had no idea what you were asking me to do, so you just dismissed me and said never mind, just forget it... which came across as an irritated impatient person, even though I was genuinely willing to help you out, even though you could have just sorted it out for yourself, but rather than do that, you seemed to have wanted me to do it, then got impatient with me when I didn't understand what it was you were asking me to do for you.
Meditate and meditate and sit in bliss, but you won't make a dent in your narcisissm or even potentially notice it.
Why do you think your affect is so diminished?
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

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roydop wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:54 pm

There is SO much resistance to simply being thought free.
No there is no form of resistance in naturally loving people - rather, the resistance is simply saying to someone else, stop that you are in your head, your thinking, and that's bad, stop it.

No resistance at all, because even intellectual and academically thinking people are LOVING.

True Loving people will know instinctively how to like themselves and will normally treat others as they would treat themselves.

A Man's way to a Womans heart, a way for him to get good sex from the Woman is simply effortless for a LOVING man...that's all it takes, it's so very simply and obvious.

Women are openly receptive to men who are LOVING.

If a man is not loving, there is no way in hell they are going to get anywhere remotely intimate or platonically friendly with a woman. No way.

Thinking people can still be LOVING, or deleriously happy. It's ok to think, and to always think for yourself, to be yourself, and not deny or reject anything regarding one's own thoughts because they are all part of you anyway and nothing to be ashamed of or told is bad.
Walker
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Walker »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:27 am Meditate and meditate and sit in bliss, but you won't make a dent in your narcisissm or even potentially notice it.
Why do you think your affect is so diminished?
I haven’t seen Roy’s videos if that’s what you’re referencing, but I did see this one awhile back, and I think you’ll like it.

To understand what you mean, do you see narcissism in this video?

(What I see is body, voice and mind moving as designed ...)

Iyengar breathing demonstration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcPjvp4La8A
Iwannaplato
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:54 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:27 am Meditate and meditate and sit in bliss, but you won't make a dent in your narcisissm or even potentially notice it.
Why do you think your affect is so diminished?
I haven’t seen Roy’s videos if that’s what you’re referencing, but I did see this one awhile back, and I think you’ll like it.
It's not my kind of spirituality, but I know them quite well and his mish mash mix of Eastern traditions is much less interesting than some of the traditions. Further, he's not an interesting speaker. His affect seemed dulled and I don't get the impression his ability to introspect if very good.
To understand what you mean, do you see narcissism in this video?
(What I see is body, voice and mind moving as designed ...)

Iyengar breathing demonstration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcPjvp4La8A
IInteresting in context, yoga is a metaphor based on a work meaning yoke. IOW one is compared with cattle in a yoke.

If you think these are mere metaphors, the ideas of service ( being in the serving class), surrender (being on the losing side in a war) and being yoked (being a work animal) actually match ideas and patterns in these traditions all over the place. And people like that speaker, expect and accept being treated precisely as narcissists want to be treated.
Walker
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Walker »

Yes, to yoke all things into one balanced being.

Old Iyengar looks to be about as cocky as Trump, and come to think of it, that's what folks don't like about Trump.
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:10 pm Yes, to yoke all things into one balanced being.

Old Iyengar looks to be about as cocky as Trump, and come to think of it, that's what folks don't like about Trump.
Cocky can be good. I don't know Ing. that well, though I did meet Gyatso whose name you seem to use as an exclamation. Different tradition, similar problems.
Try being cocky around a guru, however. Too bad Iyendar is dead or you could test that out.
The problem with narcissists is not that they are cocky, it's what they want others to be and how they go about ensuring that and punishing deviations.
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Walker »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:20 pmToo bad Iyendar is dead or you could test that out.
I did that after the change, but not with Iyengar.
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:28 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:20 pmToo bad Iyendar is dead or you could test that out.
I did that after the change, but not with Iyengar.
I love the drama of that sentence...but I don't know what you're referring to with 'change'.
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Walker »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:31 pm
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:28 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:20 pmToo bad Iyendar is dead or you could test that out.
I did that after the change, but not with Iyengar.
I love the drama of that sentence...but I don't know what you're referring to with 'change'.
Indeed.

*

These are facts observed by Iyengar, not beliefs.

The mind is the king of the senses!
The breath is the king of the mind!
The nerves have a rhythmic vibration!
And that, becomes the king of the breath.
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Re: Your Natural State is Happiness

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:36 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:31 pm
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:28 pm
I did that after the change, but not with Iyengar.
I love the drama of that sentence...but I don't know what you're referring to with 'change'.
Indeed.

*

These are facts observed by Iyengar, not beliefs.

The mind is the king of the senses!
The breath is the king of the mind!
The nerves have a rhythmic vibration!
And that, becomes the king of the breath.
Yeah, they don't really trust themselves, their desires, their emotions, their thoughts.....
so one part of the self, soul, brain takes over...like a king...and most of the person is a serf.
You don't even need an in-the-outside-world tyrant, you've given space to one inside.
And it tells you it's the real you.
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