"Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

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Veritas Aequitas
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"Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

This aphorism "Know Thyself" is commonly thrown about.
However I believe this maxim had not been used effectively in modern times and here in this forum.
  • The Ancient Greek aphorism "know thyself" is the first of three Delphic maxims inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi according to the Greek writer Pausanias (10.24.1).[1]
    In Latin the phrase, "know thyself", is given as nosce te ipsum[3] or temet nosce.[4]
This aphorism is generally attributed to 'Socrates' but as indicated in the WIKI article it had been attributed to many people,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself
1 Attribution
2 Usage
2.1 By Aeschylus
2.2 By Socrates
2.3 By Plato
2.4 Later usage
2.5 In other cultures

In the later usage [2.4] the common theme is related to 'God' e.g. "Who knows himself, knows his Lord."

Most of the other interpretations of 'know thyself' do not appear to be effective for the progress of humanity.

I believe the most relevant is this one from Carl Linnaeus;
In 1735, Carl Linnaeus published the first edition of Systema Naturae in which he described humans (Homo) with the simple phrase "Nosce te ipsum"

The above leads the way for 'Know Thyself' into knowing "human nature" which should cover the following;

1. Biology, Human anatomy, etc.
2. Biochemistry
3. Genetics
4. Epigenetic
5. Molecular biology
6. Human Evolution
7. Evolutionary psychology
8. General psychology
9. Neuroscience
10. Cognitive Science
11. Human entanglement with reality
12. The inherent existential crisis within oneself
13. One's physical nature in terms of Physics
14. One's physical nature in terms of Chemistry
15. Philosophy of the Self
16. ???

I am sure I have left many others.
any others?

My point is, how can members herein be so sure of their views if they do have have reasonable knowledge of their own nature, i.e. 'know thyself'.
For example, Peter Holmes [& others] will claim 'morality is about right and wrong' but how solid [even self-confidence] is this claim if he does not know his own nature [know thyself] that is driving such a view?

As such, members must make a point to "know thyself" in terms of the above.

Views?
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

I have familiarity with many of the above listed topics and to cover whatever knowledge gap of 'know thyself';
currently I am taking taking a few courses simultaneously in Biochemistry, Genomics, Genetics, Epigenetics, Molecular Biology & Nutrition from MIT and other universities.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=35421
Skip
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Skip »

It's not from the perspective of biology or genetics that self-knowledge comes. That's all theoretical, generic knowledge; it's not about yourself.
You can know all those sciences and still be deluded about how pompous you sound when telling the same dull anecdote to the same people you dine with every couple of months. It's not about "human nature" (which doesn't exist as a discrete entity anyway); it's about your own personal virtues and vices, strengths and weaknesses, capabilities, foibles, flaws and charms.
Simply: stop lying about who and what you are, what and why you believe, what and how you feel.
bobmax
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by bobmax »

Knowing your nature can help, but not to know who you are.

Instead, it can be useful for understanding what you are not.
Because what you find will always be something you have, not something you are.

You will then begin to suspect that you are really there...

Who am I?

Only love can answer.
Impenitent
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Impenitent »

if knowledge is even possible...

-Imp
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:28 am 1. Biology, Human anatomy, etc.
2. Biochemistry
3. Genetics
4. Epigenetic
5. Molecular biology
6. Human Evolution
7. Evolutionary psychology
8. General psychology
9. Neuroscience
10. Cognitive Science
11. Human entanglement with reality
12. The inherent existential crisis within oneself
13. One's physical nature in terms of Physics
14. One's physical nature in terms of Chemistry
15. Philosophy of the Self
16. ???
Has anyone ever told this chump the story about the group of blind men trying to answer the question "what is an elephant" by touch?
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Skip wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:31 am It's not from the perspective of biology or genetics that self-knowledge comes. That's all theoretical, generic knowledge; it's not about yourself.
You can know all those sciences and still be deluded about how pompous you sound when telling the same dull anecdote to the same people you dine with every couple of months.

It's not about "human nature" (which doesn't exist as a discrete entity anyway); it's about your own personal virtues and vices, strengths and weaknesses, capabilities, foibles, flaws and charms.

Simply: stop lying about who and what you are, what and why you believe, what and how you feel.
Btw, do you have knowledge of genetics, the human genome, how your brain works, etc.?

The human genome has about 20000 to 25000 identified genes.
Many of these genes by themselves [nature] or in entanglement with environmental conditions [nature] as expressed within current conditions will influence "your own personal virtues and vices, strengths and weaknesses, capabilities, foibles, flaws and charms."

Thus understanding the above mechanisms can facilitate to manage, modulate and mitigate any negative impact and promote the positives.

Btw, do you have any idea what is the basis of your nature that drive you to respond in the above manner in disregarding thinking deeper and wider on the issue?
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bobmax wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:08 pm Knowing your nature can help, but not to know who you are.

Instead, it can be useful for understanding what you are not.
Because what you find will always be something you have, not something you are.

You will then begin to suspect that you are really there...

Who am I?

Only love can answer.
As you agreed, "Knowing your nature can help" which is my point for this thread.

My intent here is to avoid the black-box approach, i.e.
In science, computing, and engineering, a black box is a system which can be viewed in terms of its inputs and outputs (or transfer characteristics), without any knowledge of its internal workings.

The term can be used to refer to many inner workings, such as the ones of a transistor, an engine, an algorithm, the human brain, or an institution or government.

To analyse an open system with a typical "black box approach", only the behavior of the stimulus/response will be accounted for, to infer the (unknown) box. The usual representation of this black box system is a data flow diagram centered in the box.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
The opposite of 'black-box' is the 'white-box' approach.
The opposite of a black box is a system where the inner components or logic are available for inspection, which is most commonly referred to as a white box (sometimes also known as a "clear box" or a "glass box".
[ibid]
This OP is not about 'Who am I' in the ontological sense.
For that refer to;
The Self - Hume
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume#The_'self'
I don't want to veer off topic on this in this OP.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Impenitent wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:21 pm if knowledge is even possible...
-Imp
Btw, do you have any idea what is the detailed basis of your nature that drive you to respond in the above manner with emphasis on the usual 'one-liners' and disregarding thinking deeper and wider on the issue?
Skip
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Skip »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:52 am Btw, do you have knowledge of genetics, the human genome, how your brain works, etc.?
Some. Not extensive.
The human genome has about 20000 to 25000 identified genes.
Many of these genes by themselves [nature] or in entanglement with environmental conditions [nature] as expressed within current conditions will influence "your own personal virtues and vices, strengths and weaknesses, capabilities, foibles, flaws and charms."
Yes
Thus understanding the above mechanisms can facilitate to manage, modulate and mitigate any negative impact and promote the positives.
I don't see how a large theoretical background knowledge would outweigh simple observation of one's immediate environment.
Btw, do you have any idea what is the basis of your nature that drive you to respond in the above manner in disregarding thinking deeper and wider on the issue?
Yup. Disdain for pretentious twaddle.
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Hermit Philosopher
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Hermit Philosopher »

Dear @Veritas Aequitas,

Yes, the advice to ”Know Thyself” is an extensive one and they who follow it through extensively, often learn that they are not what, nor whom, they once believed themselves to be.

The more one understands about one’s own nature and person, the more one will seek to understand that of one’s fellow beings and, the more one understands about them, the greater one’s interest in understanding one’s own relation to others and to all that one encounters is, will become.

The more one understands about all that, the more one will know that word like “reality” or “truth” have many sides to them and that, while some of those sides are misinterpretations, many are simply different perspectives on what is encountered.

And so it is, that they who get to know themselves extensively, often know not to claim possession of much objective “reality” or “truth” at all.


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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Skip wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:10 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:52 am Btw, do you have knowledge of genetics, the human genome, how your brain works, etc.?
Some. Not extensive.
To manage and modulate one's behavior there is no compromise for in depth knowledge of our what we are made up and the mechanisms involved internally, at least to the extent for processes that are pertinent and relevant to ordinary life.
Thus understanding the above mechanisms can facilitate to manage, modulate and mitigate any negative impact and promote the positives.
I don't see how a large theoretical background knowledge would outweigh simple observation of one's immediate environment.
Observation of one's immediate environment without knowing one's own internal mechanisms will not enable one to achieve a higher level of one's well being.

Let say you own and drive a car.
It is obvious you will be a better driver and be able to ensure the car is in good conditions if you understand the full details of the elements the car is made up and all its mechanisms and operation.

Note Hermit Philosopher's points above which are the preferable views.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Hermit Philosopher wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:36 am Dear @Veritas Aequitas,

Yes, the advice to ”Know Thyself” is an extensive one and they who follow it through extensively, often learn that they are not what, nor whom, they once believed themselves to be.

The more one understands about one’s own nature and person, the more one will seek to understand that of one’s fellow beings and, the more one understands about them, the greater one’s interest in understanding one’s own relation to others and to all that one encounters is, will become.

The more one understands about all that, the more one will know that word like “reality” or “truth” have many sides to them and that, while some of those sides are misinterpretations, many are simply different perspectives on what is encountered.

And so it is, that they who get to know themselves extensively, often know not to claim possession of much objective “reality” or “truth” at all.


Humbly
Hermit
That's the way. The above are very good points.

On the last point I would add, there is no way to claim there is absolute objective reality or truth.
However there are objective-reality which are conditional upon a specific framework and system of knowledge [FSK] or reality, thus relative, not absolute.
For example scientific truths are objective but they are objective in the relative sense since they are conditioned upon the scientific FSK which is managed and sustained by humans, thus ultimately it is intersubjective.
Skip
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Skip »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:10 am
To manage and modulate one's behavior there is no compromise for in depth knowledge of our what we are made up and the mechanisms involved internally, at least to the extent for processes that are pertinent and relevant to ordinary life.
Nonsense! (pretentious nonsense) Many a factory worker has a better understanding of himself and fewer illusions than many a professor. The one thing has very little to do with the other. Self-knowledge is not about theory; it's about honesty.
Observation of one's immediate environment without knowing one's own internal mechanisms will not enable one to achieve a higher level of one's well being.
A lot more than the other way around!
Let say you own and drive a car.
It is obvious you will be a better driver and be able to ensure the car is in good conditions if you understand the full details of the elements the car is made up and all its mechanisms and operation.

Or have a competent mechanic and the good sense to keep up a maintenance schedule. Neither will make you a good driver; that's a different skill-set.
Note Hermit Philosopher's points above which are the preferable views.
You prefer somebody agreeing with you to somebody disagreeing with you? Astoundingly self-astute!
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: "Know Thyself" What does that Entail?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Skip wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:47 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:10 am
To manage and modulate one's behavior there is no compromise for in depth knowledge of our what we are made up and the mechanisms involved internally, at least to the extent for processes that are pertinent and relevant to ordinary life.
Nonsense! (pretentious nonsense) Many a factory worker has a better understanding of himself and fewer illusions than many a professor. The one thing has very little to do with the other. Self-knowledge is not about theory; it's about honesty.
Observation of one's immediate environment without knowing one's own internal mechanisms will not enable one to achieve a higher level of one's well being.
A lot more than the other way around!
Let say you own and drive a car.
It is obvious you will be a better driver and be able to ensure the car is in good conditions if you understand the full details of the elements the car is made up and all its mechanisms and operation.

Or have a competent mechanic and the good sense to keep up a maintenance schedule. Neither will make you a good driver; that's a different skill-set.
Note Hermit Philosopher's points above which are the preferable views.
You prefer somebody agreeing with you to somebody disagreeing with you? Astoundingly self-astute!
SKIP: "Many a factory worker has a better understanding of himself and fewer illusions than many a professor"
You are making a lot of noises with that which is too general.

Surely it has to depend on what are the issues involved.
In terms of nutrition & health, a professor on such a subject will have a better understanding than the factory worker and the potential to maintain better health with the knowledge he has.

True there are knowledgeable professors [or experts re health and nutritions] who do not do what they preach and ignorant factor-workers who are very healthy in the higher percentiles.
These are exception but on average, the knowledgeable profession or experts of health and nutrition are definitely in a healthier state than the factory workers who are ignorant of knowledge of health and nutrition.

Would you trust the village shaman surgeon or the modern day qualified surgeon to operate on you?

The above applies to all other subjects where re its theories [Pure] and practices [Applied].

Here is what I learned from the Biochemistry Course re the Metabolic Pathways of Humans which will provide details detailed knowledge of the impact of my food intake and its impact on my health.

Here is knowledge of the refined Metabolic Pathways of Humans
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Zooming in;
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zoom in further;
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