Philosophy

For all things philosophical.

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Iwannaplato
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Iwannaplato »

Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:49 pm You could be right but I still think gender is a social role. Secondary sex characteristics don't include voluntary behaviours.
Well, the endocrine system is different and different during puberty. Hormones affect the nervous system and there are already neurological and hormonal differences going all the way back. These will lead to tendencies in relation to stress and all sorts of behaviors. Tendencies. I don't think anyone should be barred from anything due to sex/gender. I don't think anything should be assumed or pushed on an individual. But there are different tendencies, with a lot of overlap also. Then on top of this you have cultural expectations.

But even fetal brains are different between boys and girls.
https://angelusnews.com/arts-culture/ne ... -in-utero/
Wizard22
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Wizard22 »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:26 amAll are individuals; without exception.
I disagree,

Most people hold 'common' thoughts, beliefs, and ideas. People who have unique thoughts, beliefs, and ideas, are rare. An individual is so, directly proportional to how he or she sets himself apart from the norm and the commonplace. Exceptional thought, and the individuals who produce them, are rare.

Sculptor wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:26 amOn the one hand you claim there is no independence :lol: ; on the other you don't know if you are thinking for yourself, or I ma doing all your thinking for you.
Even you can work out what is really going on surely?
I asked you first. If you start this thread, asking others the Meaning of Life, then I'd be answering your questions before you answering mine. That said, yes, I believe I do know when I'm thinking for myself. Because I tend to have thoughts which other people don't have. For example, when I ask people the Meaning of Life, they say "The Meaning of Life, is to live!" That answer doesn't suffice me; most answers do not suffice me. They're insufficient answers. I need something much more powerful, motivating, and profound.

I need a better answer than I can produce for myself.

If people on a "philosophy" forum cannot answer this, cannot produce a marvel, then why are you and others even here?? Isn't this the #1 Philosophical imperative??
Wizard22
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Wizard22 »

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmAnd, 'psychology' literally means the 'study of the psyche' but so what?

My question is, obviously, asking for some thing ELSE, for clarification.

The studying of 'life', itself, does NOT mean that "science" is studying the 'meaning of life'.

Also, the branch of science known as 'biology' does NOT study ALL of 'Life' NOR ALL 'life'. The field of 'biology' only studies a part of 'Life', ONLY.
Wrong, Biology studies ALL parts of ALL life. This point was in response to your inquiry about an 'objective' analysis of Meaning of Life.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmLOL

ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of just how much these adult human beings would MAKE ASSUMPTIONS, and BELIEVE them to be true, BEFORE they would even just BEGIN TO SEEK OUT CLARIFICATION and True and FULL UNDERSTANDING.
Children don't know their Meaning of Life,
Most adults don't know their Meaning of Life, too.
Philosophers, and those interested in Philosophy, ought to have a clue, if not definitive and concrete answers.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmI HAVE ALREADY OWNED 'it'. But you appear to be completely and utterly BLIND to what the question is asking for, EXACTLY.

Are you NOT ABLE TO READ and SEE what this ACTUAL QUESTION is ASKING?
You brought up the topic of child abuse, not me.

You brought up the point of "learning from children", as-if they will offer some insight as to the Meaning of Life.

Along with your username, "Age", yes, I do believe you have some type of fixation on this point.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmSo, EVERY one of 'you', human beings, are eventually ALL LOSERS, right?
The question is whether Life has Meaning, and if there are better or worse forms of Meaning of Life.

Can one person live a 'better' life than another? If yes, then yes.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmBut 'Life', Itself, does NOT 'struggle' AT ALL, and in Fact IS ETERNAL. So, the word 'survival' does NOT even relate to 'Life', Itself.

However, 'life' is a completely different and other matter, which will be just as obvious and KNOWN to those who are Truly interested.
Death occurs to all Life, so what you said isn't true.

All life can hypothetically be destroyed; that is why there exists a survival instinct.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmBut when I asked you to CLARIFY this earlier, you stated:

The value of life is the importance, significance, and meaning that an organism deems to itself, and to others.


So, some times you SAY, 'the value of life', can NOT be boiled-down to 'mere opinion', but at other times you SAY, 'the value of life', comes down to how an organism 'deems itself'. Which, to me, is just about the same as 'mere opinion'. So, will you now CLARIFY what is the ACTUAL difference between how one 'deems itself' to 'mere opinion of oneself'?

If no, then WHY NOT?
Here's a problem. A person can live a Meaningful life, and not know it. The point is to live a Meaningful life, and know it, AND not be deluded. That's a challenge. I don't think it's a common occurrence, at all. In fact, it's probably the rarest thing in existence. Why? Because people often delude themselves the importance of their accomplishments, deeds, achievements, and all such of their lives, when it may not be so. There is an issue with Selfishness, self-centered-ness, Egotism, Narcissism, and the like. Then there are all those with depression, who may have done amazing and influential things, gave Meaning to others in life, but themselves become depressed and maybe commit suicide.

So there are countless factors to consider.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmBut the EXACT reason WHY 'you', human beings, commit suicide is for a far more fundamental reason.

As there are a countless number of 'you'', human beings who see absolutely NO meaning in their lives, and they do NOT commit suicide, NOR even have suicidal impulses, what you said and claimed here does NOT follow.

Also, according to your so-called "logic" above, ALL 'life' that is NOT a 'human being life' would have NO 'value' and NO 'meaning' and absolutely NONE of them have suicidal impulses, which you just CLAIMED would manifest as a suicidal impulse.

I have also NEVER observed the life of young child, which OBVIOUSLY has NO sense of ANY value nor of ANY meaning, manifesting into a suicidal impulse.
Humans have a heightened capacity to have and learn of the Meaning of Life, which other, less intelligent animals, simply do not have.

Simple animals may have a Meaning of Life. What is it? What is their Value? What is their Purpose? What is their Significance?

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmBECAUSE they are NOT YET responsible for their actions.

Oh hang on, are you one of these adult human beings who MAKES children RESPONSIBLE for what they do, and so PUNISHES them for when they do what you call "wrong"?
Wizard22 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:10 am I'm not going to ask a third time.
You ONLY had to ask the FIRST time. BECAUSE what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is that that is WHEN I answered YOUR QUESTION, ALREADY.

If you want to 'try' and CLAIM that children ARE RESPONSIBLE for their behaviors, actions, and/or for what they do, then PLEASE go ahead and CLAIM this here.

We would ALL LOVE to SEE this PRESENTED.
Is it not Existence that makes children "responsible" for their actions?

If a young child sticks a fork in a light socket, then who is responsible for that? The child, or, somebody else?

People say "the parent is responsible", but why or how? Why must another be responsible, for you?

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmIn whose eyes?
Not in the "eyes", but in the stomach.

Children are not fed equally. It's never happened in history. It will never happen. Therefore, 'Equality' does not exist. Will you feed a large man 'equal' amount of calories as a petite woman?? Shouldn't different people be fed differently, therefore, NOT equally?!

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmAh okay. So, you only LIE to those who you do NOT care about, correct?

Also, is there a human being who you have NOT LIED to?

If yes, then WHO was that, EXACTLY?

In fact, have you EVER LIED to "yourself"?

If yes, then are you SAYING that 'you' do NOT care about 'you', NOR "yourself"?

Or, do 'you' ACTUALLY BELIEVE that 'you' have NOT LIED to, and thus NOT DECEIVED, "yourself" NOR some "others"?

By the way, BECAUSE 'I' can CLEARLY SEE that 'you' are LYING here, does this mean that 'you' do NOT care for 'I'?
That's the rub, isn't it?
What does this EVEN MEAN, EXACTLY?
It means that self-deception is a challenge for everybody.

Even in this discussion and debate about Meaning of Life, people can easily fall into deception. I made the point above. If a person lives a Meaningful life, and doesn't know it, then that possibility must be considered. People may not be aware of whether their entire lives are Meaningful, or not. So then deception is another problem, to clarify and avoid. Honesty is a very profound challenge, in this context. Anybody can say and claim "MY LIFE IS MEANINGFUL!" but merely exclaiming it, doesn't make it so.

There needs to be a proof of some kind, some demonstration, some type of reason. If a Life is meaningful, then how is it so? This should be something easy to demonstrate...unless Meaning in Life is rare, and NOT common.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmBut now you are implying that you do NOT tell "others" NOR even "yourself" the Truth (capital T), which therefore, according to your OWN "logic" here, MEANS that you do NOT care of "others" NOR even "yourself".
In a way, yes, what a person knows of capital T Truth, does demonstrate their ability to care, for others and himself.

Self-deception is simply self-hatred. So it is no small thing for a person to delude him or herself. I believe self-deception is the norm, not the exception. Because it's too easy to lie. It's too easy to claim anything, and not be held accountable to that claim. Think of what it would entail, if your words *MUST* align with reality. Think of how daunting and damning that would be. For example, that if you didn't know absolutely everything at all times, then your ignorance could be used against you, and it would be.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pm
Yes, and because life is Unequal, mistreating others has consequences. It is only under your presumed "Equality" that mistreating a person has NO CONSEQUENCE.
Well this is one Truly WEIRD and ABSURD ASSUMPTION. Besides being absolutely Wrong and Incorrect, it is just down right and out right PURE NONSENSE.
How is it nonsense?

If a person behaves Goodly, then you reward him or her. If a person behaves Evily, then you punish him or her.

Inequality is the norm. You don't treat Good and Evil "equally".

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmLet us NOT FORGET that 'that' was your OWN ASSUMPTION, and CONCLUSION here.

And, let us ALSO NOT FORGET that you just AGREED that it is CORRECT that 'you' can MISTREAT absolutely ANY one, ANY way 'you' like, just because 'you' BELIEVE that they are NOT EQUAL to 'you', and so, to 'you', there some people who are LESS than 'you' are.

Also, what are the consequences of MISTREATING people who are LESS THAN 'you'?

What were the 'consequences' to "slave" OWNERS, besides having FREE LABOR?

Or, what were the 'consequences' to those who STOLE land from "others", who were considered LESS THAN?

If, and WHEN, one BELIEVES that "others" are LESS THAN that one, and that one BELIEVES that they can MISTREAT "others" in ANY way they like, BECAUSE the "others" are LESS THAN that one, then, SERIOUSLY, what 'consequences' could or would exist?
I didn't imply that mistreating people will always reward the one who does so. Sometimes those who mistreat others are brought to Justice, but sometimes they're not.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmWHY DEFLECT here?

It was 'you' who SAID and STATED, VERY CLEARLY:

So, over-indulgence is the definition of addiction and abuse

Therefore, HOW MANY drinks can a man and/or a woman have BEFORE they so-call "over indulge"?

If you 'try to' DEFLECT, AGAIN, here, then what you REALLY KNOW, and REALLY DO NOT KNOW, becomes MORE OBVIOUS.

I ALREADY KNOW what the ANSWER here IS, but more and more are starting to CLEARLY SEE, and thus KNOW, ALSO.
It's common sense, that one person who imbibes a drug, does so medicinally, versus another person who is addicted to it and 'ABUSES' that drug.

This is why drug-"use" is not drug-"abuse". And with alcohol, it's obvious that some people have different tolerances and thresholds than others.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmBut there is NO so-called "negative claim"

You CLAIM that 'Life is NOT equal'. Thus, you are CLAIMING that the absolute Truth here IS: 'Life is NOT equal'.

And, I just PROVED this to be ABSOLUTELY True.

And, you WILL ALSO PROVE this to be ABSOLUTELY True, WHEN you are Honest and ADMIT that you BELIEVE absolutely and wholeheartedly that there is NO possibility that Life could be EQUAL, AT ALL, correct?
Look how easy it is to disprove what you say though!

All I have to do is demonstrate that not all life is fed EQUALLY, and I'm right and you're wrong.

*YOU* are the one claiming "Equality" in Life, not me. All I have to do is show that all life is not fed equally, and it's not.


So you are claiming something that does NOT exist, which is, "Equality" in Nature. It doesn't exist.

Now you can go feed two dogs an "equal" amount of food. But will you do it forever? Will you do it at the same time? Will you do it, for all dogs? Will you do it, for all life? No, therefore, No.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmLOL WHY do 'you', human beings, ADD the 'philosophical' word into places where it REALLY is NOT necessary?

And, WHY PRESUME that MOST people are lying, from the VERY start?

This is a CLEAR SIGN of just how MUCH DAMAGE has been done to you ALREADY.

Furthermore, WHO are in the 'MOST' group? And, how do you DISTINGUISH them apart, from the VERY start?
No, it's just a matter of Intelligence.

When I ask people, and most of them answer, "The Meaning of Life, is to live", then I can deduce from that, that they either do NOT have a significant or uncommon Meaning of Life, or they believe they do, but they're just not talking about it publicly. So this puts people into two groups: those that do not have any real Meaning of Life, versus those who believe they do, but won't speak publicly about that Meaning.

And then I investigated more. What people have told me privately, about their "Meaning of Life", is very protected. People guard that, because they want to be significant, important, loved, cared for, and especially, thought of as "unique individuals". So, if a person is "found out", or discovered, as not significant or not unique, then their "Meaning of Life" is destroyed.

So it's common sense why people would hide this, and be very cowardly about it. Because they safe guard their very Essence of Life Itself.

So, now, you have no cause to make such accusations and implications as you did. It's very disrespectful, especially when you do not present your own Meaning of Life as honestly and forthright as any other, who maybe much more cowardly. Because then you, and I, are compared to them.

I asked. I made this thread. I came here, and asked this forum, a "philosophy" forum, so I expect answers. I expect the best answers. If you cannot answer them, or others here cannot, then is it really a 'philosophy' forum?? I don't think it is.

Age wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:12 pmIf no, then HOW do you KNOW?

Have you gone and got 'your chromosomes' CHECKED?
It's basic scientific knowledge. Chromosomes program your gender/sex, XY is male, XX is female.
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Sculptor
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Sculptor »

Wizard22 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:22 am
Sculptor wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:26 amAll are individuals; without exception.
I disagree,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ
Wizard22
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Wizard22 »

lol, of course
Wizard22
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Wizard22 »

Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:49 pm You could be right but I still think gender is a social role. Secondary sex characteristics don't include voluntary behaviours.
A boy can pretend to be a girl; a girl can pretend to be a boy.
It doesn't mean they are what they pretend.
This used to be common sense, before 2008.
Sadly, times have changed for the worse.
Belinda
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Belinda »

Wizard22 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:44 am
Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:49 pm You could be right but I still think gender is a social role. Secondary sex characteristics don't include voluntary behaviours.
A boy can pretend to be a girl; a girl can pretend to be a boy.
It doesn't mean they are what they pretend.
This used to be common sense, before 2008.
Sadly, times have changed for the worse.
Is it worse that we may question traditional categories? No, it's better we can question whether or not traditional categories are making people happy.
Wizard22
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Wizard22 »

Belinda wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:15 pmIs it worse that we may question traditional categories? No, it's better we can question whether or not traditional categories are making people happy.
If somebody doesn't know his or her own biological gender, then rest assured, he or she also doesn't know the Meaning of Life.

If you can't figure out small things, then big things are far beyond you.


But, let's cut to the chase here. What you said, is about Lying. You are saying "it's okay to Lie", when you go after 5-year-old boys to teach them that "gender is fluid", and "it's YOUR CHOICE to cut your penis off". That's evil.
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Belinda »

Wizard22 wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:25 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:15 pmIs it worse that we may question traditional categories? No, it's better we can question whether or not traditional categories are making people happy.
If somebody doesn't know his or her own biological gender, then rest assured, he or she also doesn't know the Meaning of Life.

If you can't figure out small things, then big things are far beyond you.


But, let's cut to the chase here. What you said, is about Lying. You are saying "it's okay to Lie", when you go after 5-year-old boys to teach them that "gender is fluid", and "it's YOUR CHOICE to cut your penis off". That's evil.
Gender choice is not about self mutilation.

What in your opinion is "the Meaning of Life"?
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henry quirk
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Re: Philosophy

Post by henry quirk »

Gender choice is not about self mutilation.
Seems to me it can be. It depends on how far one takes the *charade or *delusion.




*trans-whatever is one or the other...it ain't about gender choice
Wizard22
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Wizard22 »

My response from the Online Philosophy Club Forum:
If Objective Reality were not accessible then it wouldn't be "Real". I think rationality, logic, and deduction are used to access Objective Reality. Existence exists, beyond human knowledge. Existence doesn't require you or I, to exist. If you fall asleep, the universe doesn't disappear with your unconsciousness.

That said,

It's pretty obvious that people are holding back what they really believe about the Meaning of Life when they say "The Meaning of Life, is to live" or "the meaning of a dog, is a dog". You can do better than stating the obvious. If you want to be honest, and say you don't know, then go right ahead. At least it's honest. Many people presume to know, but have doubts about what they believe.

Religious people are more convinced, about their Meaning of Life, which they believe comes from God. At the very least, with them, with the religious fundamentalist, they can give concise, relatively clear answers, by compared to what we see in this thread. Maybe non-religious people don't know the Meaning of Life. Maybe non-religious people don't have a Meaning of Life. Maybe, being non-religious, your life literally, phystically, spiritually, has NO MEANING.

I'm open to that probability. In fact, I take people at their word. Many people, simply do NOT have a meaning of life. Their lives are meaningless. They are Nihilists. They don't believe in meaning, at all, in the first place. Maybe that's what we're working with, here?
Wizard22
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Wizard22 »

Belinda wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:45 pmGender choice is not about self mutilation.
Sure it is, with the rise of Liberal-Leftist-Democrat-Marists in the United States, the leader of Western "culture", groomers have infiltrated public schools throughout the country and encourage 5-year-old boys to "transition", which means, castration, cuckoldry...

...basically Postmodern Eunuchs, which are intended to serve the "Liberal World Order", in their own words.

I also consider unnecessary abortions as a form of self-mutilation.

Belinda wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:45 pmWhat in your opinion is "the Meaning of Life"?
I believe I've remarked about my own, personal, subjective Meaning of Life.

But in looking as much of 'Life' as possible, I believe Life is far beyond human awareness. I consider that intelligences far higher and above humanity may exist. If they do, then they might manage planets and solar systems, as a human manages farmland, industries, or corporations. The things that give common people Meaning, are common. Most people find enough 'meaning' in sex, love, family, which is decent. But, for some, some rare individuals need much 'more' meaning than the average and common.

Some individuals are remarkable, and so, find Meaning in rarer places. There is Meaning in Nature, for example. There are natural phenomena which is amazing, beautiful, captivating, and powerful. Investigation into that, is critical, for those seeking any 'Higher' Meaning of Life. The matter at hand, is what 'suffices' people.

I believe that people should raise their standards, not settle-for-less, when humanity could have much more.


Western Civilization needs to raise our standards to unreachable levels, not this Liberal-Leftist-Marxist drivel, of lowering cultural standards so that "all pass". No, we need unachievable goals, to make life worth living.
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Belinda »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:07 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:49 pm You could be right but I still think gender is a social role. Secondary sex characteristics don't include voluntary behaviours.
Well, the endocrine system is different and different during puberty. Hormones affect the nervous system and there are already neurological and hormonal differences going all the way back. These will lead to tendencies in relation to stress and all sorts of behaviors. Tendencies. I don't think anyone should be barred from anything due to sex/gender. I don't think anything should be assumed or pushed on an individual. But there are different tendencies, with a lot of overlap also. Then on top of this you have cultural expectations.

But even fetal brains are different between boys and girls.
https://angelusnews.com/arts-culture/ne ... -in-utero/
Okay, but what may be wrong with anyone acting feminine one day and masculine the next? Like one occasion calls for a traditionally masculine approach and another occasion calls for a traditionally feminine approach. If people can be flexible they can get things done more easily and more kindly.
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Wizard22 »

A young child, a boy, can pretend to be a girl one day, a tiger the next day, a warrior the next day, a space marine the next day, etc.

Children tend to dabble in imagination. Adults should be, hypothetically, immersed in Reality and leave imagination behind for the most part, due to adult responsibilities. However, these times we live in, Postmodernism, adults tend to be childish and infantile for much, much longer. Some are stuck in an infantile stage.

If you don't know the difference between male and female, man and woman, as an adult, then it's pretty obvious you are stuck in infantile development.


Even a young child knows the differences between men and women, their biological mother and father.

Oh, wait, we are living in Postmodernism, where biological fathers are very rare, and they have been replaced by homosexual couples.

Again, this is more childishness tolerated across the whole of society. You can 'Pretend' all you want, forever. It doesn't make pretending, reality.

Pretending to be the opposite gender, or a different animal specie, doesn't make you that specie.


You can pretend to be a banana; are you a banana now, Belinda?

Please spare this thread this level of inanity. We need to be moving onto more sophisticated and complicated, Philosophical concerns, such as the Meaning of Life.
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Re: Philosophy

Post by Belinda »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:48 am
Gender choice is not about self mutilation.
Seems to me it can be. It depends on how far one takes the *charade or *delusion.




*trans-whatever is one or the other...it ain't about gender choice
Your first sentence is true. I'm sympathetic to people acting how they see fit to act as long as they don't harm anyone else.
If anyone feels they have to mutilate their bodies in order to express themselves then they are misinformed. A woman with no breasts does not have to act masculine and a man with a penis can act feminine if he so chooses. Except in places like Saudi Arabia!
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