Perception is Absolute

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Eodnhoj7
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Perception is Absolute

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Perception is absolute as perception occurs through perception and is conditioned on nothing but itself, perception is universal, even the reaction of atoms to other atoms is the atom as perceiving other atoms because of its reaction.
Fja1
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Fja1 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:07 pm Perception is absolute as perception occurs through perception and is conditioned on nothing but itself, perception is universal, even the reaction of atoms to other atoms is the atom as perceiving other atoms because of its reaction.
In hegelian terms, perception is being, ie. absolute ? In terms of hierarchy, perception is a constituent in a chain, a chain of perception and expression, or rather, of synthetization and composition, and that's all there is to it. Is not expression also absolute? (Benjamin Walter (influenced by Hamann) had some fun with the concept of expression.) Decomposition, on the other hand, wouldn't fall into absolute.
Last edited by Fja1 on Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
popeye1945
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:07 pm Perception is absolute as perception occurs through perception and is conditioned on nothing but itself, perception is universal, even the reaction of atoms to other atoms is the atom as perceiving other atoms because of its reaction.
Eodnho,

Sounds like you and I are on the same page, perception is reaction as is consciousness as is adaptation as is our apparent reality as it is a biological readout, a reactionary interpretation of energy waves/frequencies indeed reaction is everything. We however do not sense/perceive all of what is termed ultimate reality. There must be aspects of this ultimate reality that we do not sense but affects us nonetheless, so the mystery is forever fantastic.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:07 pm Perception is absolute as perception occurs through perception and is conditioned on nothing but itself, perception is universal, even the reaction of atoms to other atoms is the atom as perceiving other atoms because of its reaction.
In terms of philosophy, 'absolute' is totally unconditional upon anything i.e. existing by itself.

How can perception emerge without a brain and what-is-perceived?
Perception is conditioned by the person, brain and what-is-perceived.
As such it cannot be absolute.

In any case that 'perception is absolute' has no practical philosophical value at all.

When a theist claim 'god is absolute' it meant God is untainted by anything thus it pure to be believed for one's salvation to avoid the inherent fear of death and hellfire. This is irrational and for that purpose only, but there are rational alternatives to resolve the fundamental psychological problem that drives irrational theism.

On the other hand to accept all perception are conditioned by the person, brain and what-is-perceived [no absolute] is highly useful because we can then develop models and strategies to improve perception where there are its related issues.
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Perception is absolute, but only insofar as perception is existence itself.

In fact, existence is pure communication, therefore pure perception.
That is, where the subject and the object are functional to the same communication.
They do not exist by themselves!
But, let's put it this way, they appear due to communication.

At this point it would be necessary to deepen the communication...

Because no "truth" can ever be communicated, that would be absurd. Communication is therefore only possible because the truth is already everywhere.

Then communication is nothing but an awakening.
Fja1
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Fja1 »

bobmax wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:19 am Perception is absolute, but only insofar as perception is existence itself.

In fact, existence is pure communication, therefore pure perception.
That is, where the subject and the object are functional to the same communication.
They do not exist by themselves!
But, let's put it this way, they appear due to communication.

At this point it would be necessary to deepen the communication...

Because no "truth" can ever be communicated, that would be absurd. Communication is therefore only possible because the truth is already everywhere.

Then communication is nothing but an awakening.
As with many of Eodnhoj7's mental exercizes, these sort of statements leave broad gaps in understanding due to a lack of serious pursuit to adopt more expressive terms, rather opting to recycle terms from textbooks. "Pure" is hardly the most expressive of terms. What is really meant by "pure"; do you mean to say irreductible, do you mean to say that existence is reductible to communication, or that existence is reductible to perception? We're not on a mathematics forum, where "pure" might pertain to a pure function. If we decomposed "truth", isn't there a more expressive term for what you're wanting to say, for instance "cohesion"?
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Fja1 wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:06 pm As with many of Eodnhoj7's mental exercizes, these sort of statements leave broad gaps in understanding due to a lack of serious pursuit to adopt more expressive terms, rather opting to recycle terms from textbooks. "Pure" is hardly the most expressive of terms. What is really meant by "pure"; do you mean to say irreductible, do you mean to say that existence is reductible to communication, or that existence is reductible to perception? We're not on a mathematics forum, where "pure" might pertain to a pure function. If we decomposed "truth", isn't there a more expressive term for what you're wanting to say, for instance "cohesion"?
Yes, the choice of terms is very important.

I wrote "pure" meaning that it is just that.
(Sorry for my English)

Existence is communication.
It is just this, nothing but this.

What we are aware of is always and only communication.
To the point that the poles, between which communication takes place, exist only because of the same communication!

By themselves they do not exist.

This can be truly paradoxical.
Because it is usually believed to be the other way around.
That is, that there are entities that can possibly communicate with each other.
Instead the opposite is ready.
Fja1
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Fja1 »

bobmax wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:43 pmExistence is communication.
It is just this, nothing but this.
Is? Is reductible to, or identical to, or hereditary to (as in "belongs to a set or category")? And that's to say nothing about whether you're giving a statement or a proposition. (To programmers, there's an obvious difference between = and :=) I think to express themselves, people oughta learn to assign "is"-expressions with a qualifier, and generally pursue more expressive terms. I have a hard time to assimilate "poles" into anything intuitively philosophical, "poles" align with physics for me, although I sort of get what you're going for, and "awakening" intuitively aligns with, duh, quotidian activity done in the morning, in a philosophical discourse coming off as merely metaphorical.

"By themselves they do not exist." You mean in the same manner as governments do not exist by themselves, as entities? I wish I could recall whether it was Durkheim or Michea who said that the government is a fiction, something which can be conceived of only abstractly. Also, the topic of entities which can or cannot communicate with each others begs the epistemological question of how entities are tangent to consciousness, ie. do they enter our consciousness, analytically, or do we synthethize them, in other words, where do they begin?
Impenitent
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Impenitent »

esse est percipi...

the bishop has left the building

-Imp
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Thanks Fja1 for your criticism that pushes me to dig inside myself.

I think it is necessary first of all to clarify what is the motivation that leads me to make these statements.

The motivation is ethical.

It is in fact the suffering for evil that drives me. The evil in the world, the evil in me, the evil that I myself am!
Evidence of evil forces me to face the gaze of the Medusa.
Without being petrified, because ethics expects us to go all the way in the search for the Truth.

I learned from Karl Jaspers that existence is exclusively communication.
As well as that the Whole is not something.

All considerations that I struggled to understand but that in the end I made my own.
On the other hand, no idea is ever really mine, it only comes to me.

Another concept that I have studied in depth mainly thanks to Jaspers is that of the limit.
That is, the insuperable limit to which the rational mind which seeks the Truth inevitably reaches.

It is difficult to realize that you have come across a limit, because rational thinking does not admit the existence of any limit.
For rationality there is nothing that cannot be understood rationally sooner or later.
On the other hand, when rationality encounters it, within the insuperable limit, it does not pay attention to it, it bounces at it carelessly, for it there is no limit.

But if I hold firm my faith in the Truth, I can instead grasp its existence.
And then I can take advantage of the opportunity to stay on the edge, without the support of rationality, and resist there...

One of these limits is the same principle of identity.
Which is indispensable for determined thought, but which nevertheless is also an arbitrary forcing of our interpretation of reality.
A = A allows determined thought, but at the same time it is not True.

Another limit is the original subject-object split. That founds all perception.

Where does the split start?
When do the entities that appear to communicate with each other start to be?

It is only ethics that can answer, because rationality can only die here in front of the limit.

As well as in Spinoza's Ethics, where no inadequate idea can really exist ...
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bobmax wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:43 pm Existence is communication.
It is just this, nothing but this.
Existence is never a predicate. [Kant]
It is merely a copula "is" to connect the subject with its predicate.

What-there-is predicates all-there-is [reality] and is conditioned within a specific Framework and System entangled with the human conditions.

'Communication' is merely one part that exists within of 'all-there-is' and cannot represent total reality.

Note Descartes' 'I think, therefore I AM [exists]' do not entail communication.

----------
The limitation with Eodnhoj7 presentations and views is they are very 'austically' like, i.e. presented from and confined only his personal views and do not take into account the general and other specific views.

It is too limited to argue "Perception is Absolute" without taking into the scientific and psychological and other views.
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:18 am
bobmax wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:43 pm Existence is communication.
It is just this, nothing but this.
Existence is never a predicate. [Kant]
It is merely a copula "is" to connect the subject with its predicate.

What-there-is predicates all-there-is [reality] and is conditioned within a specific Framework and System entangled with the human conditions.

'Communication' is merely one part that exists within of 'all-there-is' and cannot represent total reality.

Note Descartes' 'I think, therefore I AM [exists]' do not entail communication.

----------
The limitation with Eodnhoj7 presentations and views is they are very 'austically' like, i.e. presented from and confined only his personal views and do not take into account the general and other specific views.

It is too limited to argue "Perception is Absolute" without taking into the scientific and psychological and other views.
Descartes' phrase, on the other hand, ascertains precisely the communication.
Because its true meaning is: I think therefore I am there.

And to be there I have to objectify myself.

There is a fundamental difference between being and being there. Existence is being there.
That is, the original subject-object split.
While being is upstream of the split.

And for this reason: Being = Nothing.

That being there, and therefore existence, is communication can be established simply by canceling all communication: existence is also canceled.
In fact, even just to think I have to divide myself in two and talk to myself.
Thought is a dialogue, a communication.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bobmax wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:23 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:18 am
bobmax wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:43 pm Existence is communication.
It is just this, nothing but this.
Existence is never a predicate. [Kant]
It is merely a copula "is" to connect the subject with its predicate.

What-there-is predicates all-there-is [reality] and is conditioned within a specific Framework and System entangled with the human conditions.

'Communication' is merely one part that exists within of 'all-there-is' and cannot represent total reality.

Note Descartes' 'I think, therefore I AM [exists]' do not entail communication.

----------
The limitation with Eodnhoj7 presentations and views is they are very 'austically' like, i.e. presented from and confined only his personal views and do not take into account the general and other specific views.

It is too limited to argue "Perception is Absolute" without taking into the scientific and psychological and other views.
Descartes' phrase, on the other hand, ascertains precisely the communication.
Because its true meaning is: I think therefore I am there.

And to be there I have to objectify myself.

There is a fundamental difference between being and being there. Existence is being there.
That is, the original subject-object split.
While being is upstream of the split.

And for this reason: Being = Nothing.

That being there, and therefore existence, is communication can be established simply by canceling all communication: existence is also canceled.
In fact, even just to think I have to divide myself in two and talk to myself.
Thought is a dialogue, a communication.
In a way, communication is fundamental but one might as well claim 'breathing' is existence because if there is no life, nothing can be done including communication.
Skepdick
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Skepdick »

bobmax wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:43 pm Existence is communication.
Some guy in the 40s had a different take...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Mathema ... munication
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:34 pm
bobmax wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:43 pm Existence is communication.
Some guy in the 40s had a different take...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Mathema ... munication
Yes, I am aware of it.

In fact, I have a degree in communication engineering.

That was what I thought for many years too.
And communication is still normally understood as such.

But then i realized the limitations of this idea.

Maxwell's equations, for example, are actually a real mystery. They work, but why?
And the messenger particles, imagined to make sense of what is happening, are they not the result of this limited idea of ​​what communication is?

I am convinced that communication is nothing more than a confused and impatient search for God.
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