Perception is Absolute

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Skepdick
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Skepdick »

bobmax wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:17 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:34 pm
bobmax wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:43 pm Existence is communication.
Some guy in the 40s had a different take...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Mathema ... munication
Yes, I am aware of it.

In fact, I have a degree in communication engineering.

That was what I thought for many years too.
And communication is still normally understood as such.

But then i realized the limitations of this idea.

Maxwell's equations, for example, are actually a real mystery. They work, but why?
And the messenger particles, imagined to make sense of what is happening, are they not the result of this limited idea of ​​what communication is?

I am convinced that communication is nothing more than a confused and impatient search for God.
Directly from the book you are "aware of". Communication is any method/procedure by which one mind influences another.

It's literally the opening paragraph of the book.

It makes no sense to ask why somethign works any more than it makes sense to ask why Mathematics works. Because we invented it to work and we subjected it to selection bias. if it didn't work - it wouldn't be in use.

Instrumentalism is about utility, not truth.
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bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:41 am In a way, communication is fundamental but one might as well claim 'breathing' is existence because if there is no life, nothing can be done including communication.
Existence is communication not in the sense that communication is necessary for existing.
But that existence is, and is only, communication!

And there is no one who communicates, communication comes from nothing.

I know this can be really absurd.

But that can only be the case.
Once you truly have faith in the absolute Truth.

Because the Truth is not somewhere.
There is no place where Truth can be there and another not there.

So that communication is nothing but the effort of awakening.
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:19 pm
bobmax wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:17 pm
Skepdick wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:34 pm Directly from the book you are "aware of". Communication is any method/procedure by which one mind influences another.

It's literally the opening paragraph of the book.

It makes no sense to ask why somethign works any more than it makes sense to ask why Mathematics works. Because we invented it to work and we subjected it to selection bias. if it didn't work - it wouldn't be in use.

Instrumentalism is about utility, not truth.
I haven't read the book, I just took a look at the page, where the definition of communication appears.

And I agree, functionality is only about utility, not truth
Fja1
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Fja1 »

bobmax wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:23 amAnd for this reason: Being = Nothing.
"Being is behind nothing"?
bobmax wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:23 am That being there, and therefore existence, is communication can be established simply by canceling all communication: existence is also canceled.
Saying that canceling all communication cancels existence amounts to just saying communication (among other things) is necessary to existence, without a clue about whether communication is sufficient for existence or whether something else is sufficient for existence.
bobmax wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:23 am In fact, even just to think I have to divide myself in two and talk to myself.
Thought is a dialogue, a communication.
Do we know that there isn't anything behind communication; a more basic level if you will? (Inequilibrium, conflict, negation, repulsion etc.? Or is it unknowable?)

Do we know that there isn't anything behind truth? What could be a more basic level? Such as knowledge, synchronicity (Leibniz), what?
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Fja1 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:45 pm Saying that canceling all communication cancels existence amounts to just saying communication (among other things) is necessary to existence, without a clue about whether communication is sufficient for existence or whether something else is sufficient for existence.
Yes, but what I'm trying to say is that communication is existence itself. Existence is nothing more than communication.
In fact, existence is the original subject-object split.
And this split is communication.
Do we know that there isn't anything behind communication; a more basic level if you will? (Inequilibrium, conflict, negation, repulsion etc.? Or is it unknowable?)

I think love is behind communication.

In fact, the other is none other than the beloved.
Unattainable as long as the split persists.
But precisely the split itself is such as a communication.
Which is the continuous search for the One.

Existence, communication, confirm the One.

If the multiple were Truth, existence would not be possible. No communication would be possible
popeye1945
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by popeye1945 »

Perception is reaction, object is reaction, consciousness is reaction, apparent reality is reaction.
Fja1
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Fja1 »

bobmax wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:09 pm I think love is behind communication.

In fact, the other is none other than the beloved.
Unattainable as long as the split persists.
But precisely the split itself is such as a communication.
Which is the continuous search for the One.

Existence, communication, confirm the One.

If the multiple were Truth, existence would not be possible. No communication would be possible
Hmm. Communication/existence is a split, a conflict, an equilibrium. Consciousness is made possible by that split. Behind it is love: that's where the split/conflict ceases, that is, love cancels existence. (Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Schopenhauer, his vindication of existential suffering, Liebendstod.) So if I parse this right, communication is necessary for consciousness of the other, and love cancels that consciousness. For when that split is undone, there is no other, and no consciousness of the other.
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Fja1 wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:26 pm Hmm. Communication/existence is a split, a conflict, an equilibrium. Consciousness is made possible by that split. Behind it is love: that's where the split/conflict ceases, that is, love cancels existence. (Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Schopenhauer, his vindication of existential suffering, Liebendstod.) So if I parse this right, communication is necessary for consciousness of the other, and love cancels that consciousness. For when that split is undone, there is no other, and no consciousness of the other.
Yes, the split vanishes along with any opposition.
Which actually never was.

It all comes back...

But we need to radically change our worldview. By following what really matters in this life.
And what matters is the Good.

Everything, absolutely everything must be seen as secondary to the Good.

An absurd vision for our usual rational interpretation of the world.

And that therefore needs of ourselves, of our contribution.
Which is, to me, the only truly free act that is allowed to us, that is to say: the Good is!

Plotinus also made every effort not to deceive himself about the One, but finally he could not help but affirm that the One is the same Good.
CHNOPS
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by CHNOPS »

So, there is only one Perceptor...
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

CHNOPS wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:45 pm So, there is only one Perceptor...
Yes, and I suspect that this is the reason for the strange responsibility I feel from time to time in the face of the pain of the world.
It is as if I am at the origin of all things and this pain is due to me.

And even that nothingness, constant presence in my life, which I have tried in every way to exorcise, to ignore... that nothingness perhaps asked me precisely this: what is important in this life?
Fja1
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Fja1 »

@bobmax

I don't know what's really new here. Schopenhauer made similar claims. Niezsche saw them as life-negating, as a reluctance towards confrontation with life and the world.
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

Fja1 wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:56 pm @bobmax

I don't know what's really new here. Schopenhauer made similar claims. Niezsche saw them as life-negating, as a reluctance towards confrontation with life and the world.
I don't think there can ever be anything really new.
If anything, it is always a rediscovery.

Nothing is ever really our doing.
It is the demon, who is silent at times and takes over at others.

Even the encounters we make determine our thinking. Depending on our predispositions.
In my case, the mystique was a revelation.
CHNOPS
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by CHNOPS »

bobmax wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:45 pm
CHNOPS wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:45 pm So, there is only one Perceptor...
Yes, and I suspect that this is the reason for the strange responsibility I feel from time to time in the face of the pain of the world.
It is as if I am at the origin of all things and this pain is due to me.

And even that nothingness, constant presence in my life, which I have tried in every way to exorcise, to ignore... that nothingness perhaps asked me precisely this: what is important in this life?
And what about the funny parts of life? you are the only one who experiences all, the bad and the good.

Just do your part and have fun.
bobmax
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by bobmax »

CHNOPS wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:05 am And what about the funny parts of life? you are the only one who experiences all, the bad and the good.

Just do your part and have fun.
Yours are words of wisdom.
I think you are quite right.

But nevertheless I cannot follow them. While sharing them.

This situation of mine may seem really absurd.

But I think (I hope) it depends on the passage I am experiencing.
That is, my soul is about to die but still doesn't want to let go.

So I see where I should go but in the meantime I'm staying here.

Thank you!
Fja1
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Re: Perception is Absolute

Post by Fja1 »

bobmax wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:42 pmI don't think there can ever be anything really new.
If anything, it is always a rediscovery.

Nothing is ever really our doing.
It is the demon, who is silent at times and takes over at others.

Even the encounters we make determine our thinking. Depending on our predispositions.
In my case, the mystique was a revelation.
Funny you're not countering the claim that 'love' is life-negating.
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