What is the meaning of life?

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DPMartin
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by DPMartin »

bahman wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:49 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 3:55 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:20 pm
So you are saying that being in the presence of God or walking in His spirit gives meaning to life?
words have meaning, life is received, lived, and given, more like, has purpose then meaning.
That does not follow.
sure it does

you received life via the will of others, you live the life you've received and if you are able you can give the life you've received.
thus it can be construed that the meaning of life is to live the life you've received and give the life you've received. all living thing receive life, live the life received, and give life it has, if it can.

so as mentioned before God restores the life of, son of God which which He gave Adam, via Jesus Christ the Son of God to the faithful (those who believe and trust the Word of God), a Life that is promised to be forever.

but to say there is meaning in a life that is a losing proposition, sorry ain't seeing it. though again one can argue that one can make up their own meaning to what they experience as life, but given enough time will be irrelevant.
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bahman
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by bahman »

DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:49 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 3:55 pm
words have meaning, life is received, lived, and given, more like, has purpose then meaning.
That does not follow.
sure it does
Sure it doesn't.
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm you received life via the will of others, you live the life you've received and if you are able you can give the life you've received.
thus it can be construed that the meaning of life is to live the life you've received and give the life you've received. all living thing receive life, live the life received, and give life it has, if it can.
Yeah, I received this life. So what?
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm so as mentioned before God restores the life of, son of God which which He gave Adam, via Jesus Christ the Son of God to the faithful (those who believe and trust the Word of God), a Life that is promised to be forever.
A forever life would be a Hell without meaning.
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm but to say there is meaning in a life that is a losing proposition, sorry ain't seeing it. though again one can argue that one can make up their own meaning to what they experience as life, but given enough time will be irrelevant.
Yes, I know that.
DPMartin
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by DPMartin »

bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:00 pm
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:49 pm
That does not follow.
sure it does
Sure it doesn't.
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm you received life via the will of others, you live the life you've received and if you are able you can give the life you've received.
thus it can be construed that the meaning of life is to live the life you've received and give the life you've received. all living thing receive life, live the life received, and give life it has, if it can.
Yeah, I received this life. So what?
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm so as mentioned before God restores the life of, son of God which which He gave Adam, via Jesus Christ the Son of God to the faithful (those who believe and trust the Word of God), a Life that is promised to be forever.
A forever life would be a Hell without meaning.
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm but to say there is meaning in a life that is a losing proposition, sorry ain't seeing it. though again one can argue that one can make up their own meaning to what they experience as life, but given enough time will be irrelevant.
Yes, I know that.
if you know that, then what's with the question?
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bahman
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by bahman »

DPMartin wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 6:25 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:00 pm
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm
sure it does
Sure it doesn't.
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm you received life via the will of others, you live the life you've received and if you are able you can give the life you've received.
thus it can be construed that the meaning of life is to live the life you've received and give the life you've received. all living thing receive life, live the life received, and give life it has, if it can.
Yeah, I received this life. So what?
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm so as mentioned before God restores the life of, son of God which which He gave Adam, via Jesus Christ the Son of God to the faithful (those who believe and trust the Word of God), a Life that is promised to be forever.
A forever life would be a Hell without meaning.
DPMartin wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:53 pm but to say there is meaning in a life that is a losing proposition, sorry ain't seeing it. though again one can argue that one can make up their own meaning to what they experience as life, but given enough time will be irrelevant.
Yes, I know that.
if you know that, then what's with the question?
I know that people make all sorts of different claims about meaning, happiness, peace, responsibility, etc, but I don't agree with any.
DPMartin
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by DPMartin »

bahman wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 8:49 pm
DPMartin wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 6:25 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:00 pm
Sure it doesn't.


Yeah, I received this life. So what?


A forever life would be a Hell without meaning.


Yes, I know that.
if you know that, then what's with the question?
I know that people make all sorts of different claims about meaning, happiness, peace, responsibility, etc, but I don't agree with any.
yea but what you think or i think is irrelevant, what the truth is, is relevant. and if you really want to know if there is a God, you're going to have to ask Him.
Dimebag
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by Dimebag »

bahman wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:47 pm
Dimebag wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:57 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:40 pm
How the consciousness can grant meaning to the life. The problem start with consciousness when you realize that something is missing.
You have hit the nail in the head there.

When you feel meaninglessness, you feel like something is missing, from YOU.

So, it stands to reason, that when you feel complete, that you have found the meaning you felt had been lost.

So, one should look for the one thing which gives a feeling of completion, which cannot be lost.

The problem is impermanence. Everything which depends on conditions and causes can cease to be. Chocolate cake can give a sense of completion, for maybe a second. Sex for maybe a few minutes.
I don't think that the problem is the lack of permanence. Suppose you could eat chocolate cake forever and enjoy it. Does that give meaning to your life?
Dimebag wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:57 pm Beyond that, what is there?

Some choose to live in constant striving, and call that meaning, yet, like the donkey with the carrot always just out of reach, they only fool themselves by kicking the can further and further down the road, not wanting to face the inevitable crash of motivation and everything which had previously kept them going.

One must find stability in instability. The only thing which can be relied on to provide any kind of inherent meaning, is awareness of awareness. Not as one’s identity, because, even that can go. But simply being aware of awareness.

Awareness can be nothing, and also everything. It can be the small self, and the large self. It can be emptiness. It can be god, Brahman, etc.

One does not need to acquire it. So one need not chase it.

It is complete self reliance, and therefore not dependent upon anything in the world of experience.

When one comes to rest, it is right here.

When one attempts to chase some goal, it remains always out of reach.

Meaninglessness is paradoxical in that, the thing one is searching for, one has never lost. Yet one is estranged from it, seemingly. So a search or question begins in the material world.

Once that search has been exhausted externally, the search naturally turns inwards. This natural turning is the very key to ending the struggle, yet, it can’t be done intentionally.

It is always the last place we look where we find what we were looking for. The only way out, is in.
Have you ever found the meaning?
I wouldn’t be talking about it if I hadn’t.

Your own existence, what is it?

What do you take yourself to be?

Are you the body? Are you the mind, the intellect? The thoughts?

Most people don’t think about this.

Some who do don’t have first hand knowledge about what they are, but rather use second hand knowledge. Maybe science says I am the body. But then neuroscience and psychology also say, what I essentially am, is a “construct”, a set of aggregates of the mind and body sensory system, and a reflective capacity of the mind.

But what is it in the mind that knows all? Is it not you? Your awareness.

Without awareness, you would not be.

Can you realise your essential nature experientially and not just as a matter of book knowledge, or a matter of logic?

That is what I am talking about.

Become aware of your essential nature, of your own existence.
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bahman
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by bahman »

Dimebag wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 11:32 am
bahman wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:47 pm
Dimebag wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:57 pm
You have hit the nail in the head there.

When you feel meaninglessness, you feel like something is missing, from YOU.

So, it stands to reason, that when you feel complete, that you have found the meaning you felt had been lost.

So, one should look for the one thing which gives a feeling of completion, which cannot be lost.

The problem is impermanence. Everything which depends on conditions and causes can cease to be. Chocolate cake can give a sense of completion, for maybe a second. Sex for maybe a few minutes.
I don't think that the problem is the lack of permanence. Suppose you could eat chocolate cake forever and enjoy it. Does that give meaning to your life?
Dimebag wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:57 pm Beyond that, what is there?

Some choose to live in constant striving, and call that meaning, yet, like the donkey with the carrot always just out of reach, they only fool themselves by kicking the can further and further down the road, not wanting to face the inevitable crash of motivation and everything which had previously kept them going.

One must find stability in instability. The only thing which can be relied on to provide any kind of inherent meaning, is awareness of awareness. Not as one’s identity, because, even that can go. But simply being aware of awareness.

Awareness can be nothing, and also everything. It can be the small self, and the large self. It can be emptiness. It can be god, Brahman, etc.

One does not need to acquire it. So one need not chase it.

It is complete self reliance, and therefore not dependent upon anything in the world of experience.

When one comes to rest, it is right here.

When one attempts to chase some goal, it remains always out of reach.

Meaninglessness is paradoxical in that, the thing one is searching for, one has never lost. Yet one is estranged from it, seemingly. So a search or question begins in the material world.

Once that search has been exhausted externally, the search naturally turns inwards. This natural turning is the very key to ending the struggle, yet, it can’t be done intentionally.

It is always the last place we look where we find what we were looking for. The only way out, is in.
Have you ever found the meaning?
I wouldn’t be talking about it if I hadn’t.

Your own existence, what is it?

What do you take yourself to be?

Are you the body? Are you the mind, the intellect? The thoughts?

Most people don’t think about this.

Some who do don’t have first hand knowledge about what they are, but rather use second hand knowledge. Maybe science says I am the body. But then neuroscience and psychology also say, what I essentially am, is a “construct”, a set of aggregates of the mind and body sensory system, and a reflective capacity of the mind.

But what is it in the mind that knows all? Is it not you? Your awareness.

Without awareness, you would not be.
No, without my mind I would not be.
Dimebag wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 11:32 am Can you realise your essential nature experientially and not just as a matter of book knowledge, or a matter of logic?

That is what I am talking about.

Become aware of your essential nature, of your own existence.
I know my nature but that does not help me to get the meaning.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bahman wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:31 pm Whatever it is it cannot be in the thought and feeling category. Well, if there is such a thing as the meaning of life then one should be able to experience it.
ALL humans are "programmed" with an inherent meaning of life.
If one is suicidal one is losing grip on the inherent meaning of life.
If one has not commit suicide yet, then one is still in alignment with the inherent and fundamental 'meaning of life' in reality, not in mere words.
When one has committed suicide, the meaning of life just 'poof!!' and it is gone like a bubble bursting and then vanished in thin air.

Note my earlier post;
viewtopic.php?p=569364#p569364
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bahman
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:54 am
bahman wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:31 pm Whatever it is it cannot be in the thought and feeling category. Well, if there is such a thing as the meaning of life then one should be able to experience it.
ALL humans are "programmed" with an inherent meaning of life.
If one is suicidal one is losing grip on the inherent meaning of life.
If one has not commit suicide yet, then one is still in alignment with the inherent and fundamental 'meaning of life' in reality, not in mere words.
When one has committed suicide, the meaning of life just 'poof!!' and it is gone like a bubble bursting and then vanished in thin air.

Note my earlier post;
viewtopic.php?p=569364#p569364
I think we are cognitively not evolved enough to experience meaning.
popeye1945
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by popeye1945 »

bahman wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:31 pm Whatever it is it cannot be in the thought and feeling category. Well, if there is such a thing as the meaning of life then one should be able to experience it.
bahman,

Life is without meaning, a lot of protoplasma with an urge to reproduce but with one species that asks the question, the answer has to be you have to make it meaningful, or not. The fact that biology is the source of all meaning means we are creators in this world and thus it is within our power to make life meaningful. Nature should give you a good indication of just how meaningless life is in its nature of red in tooth and claw.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:35 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:54 am
bahman wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:31 pm Whatever it is it cannot be in the thought and feeling category. Well, if there is such a thing as the meaning of life then one should be able to experience it.
ALL humans are "programmed" with an inherent meaning of life.
If one is suicidal one is losing grip on the inherent meaning of life.
If one has not commit suicide yet, then one is still in alignment with the inherent and fundamental 'meaning of life' in reality, not in mere words.
When one has committed suicide, the meaning of life just 'poof!!' and it is gone like a bubble bursting and then vanished in thin air.

Note my earlier post;
viewtopic.php?p=569364#p569364
I think we are cognitively not evolved enough to experience meaning.
Point is the meaning of life is inherent and one effectively has to experience it spontaneously and naturally.

Are you familiar with 'Flow'
In positive psychology, a flow state, also known colloquially as being in the zone, is the mental state in which a person performing some activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. In essence, flow is characterized by the complete absorption in what one does, and a resulting transformation in one's sense of time.
In a flow state, one enable the inherent meaning to flow spontaneously and naturally without being conscious of what the meaning should be in accordance to one's beliefs.

Even the Bible advise one to be natural like the lilies in the field;
And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto [a]the measure of his life? 28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: [Mathew 6:27-28]

It is common wisdom in Eastern Spirituality not the be too bothered with the meaning of life but merely to allow it to flow and live it, but of course one must be serious in cultivating such a condition to achieve such a state of freedom;

Note the common wisdom; "Chop Wood, Carry Water" to denote spontaneous enlightenment without any concern to be conscious of what is the meaning of life. This has to come about after the effective rewiring of the brain to achieve such a state, not by intellectualizing what is the meaning of life.

What you want is for one to be conscious intellectually of such meaning. As such one can only be intellectually conscious to the degree of one's intellectual capacity but not one's spiritual capacity.
Unfortunately it is the suicidal who fall into this trapping, and when they failed to grasp the meaning of life in this intellectual sense, they commit suicide.
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bahman
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by bahman »

popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:19 am
bahman wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:31 pm Whatever it is it cannot be in the thought and feeling category. Well, if there is such a thing as the meaning of life then one should be able to experience it.
bahman,

Life is without meaning, a lot of protoplasma with an urge to reproduce but with one species that asks the question, the answer has to be you have to make it meaningful, or not. The fact that biology is the source of all meaning means we are creators in this world and thus it is within our power to make life meaningful. Nature should give you a good indication of just how meaningless life is in its nature of red in tooth and claw.
We are aware that something is missing in our lives, meaning, but we don't know what it is.
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bahman
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:44 am
bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:35 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:54 am
ALL humans are "programmed" with an inherent meaning of life.
If one is suicidal one is losing grip on the inherent meaning of life.
If one has not commit suicide yet, then one is still in alignment with the inherent and fundamental 'meaning of life' in reality, not in mere words.
When one has committed suicide, the meaning of life just 'poof!!' and it is gone like a bubble bursting and then vanished in thin air.

Note my earlier post;
viewtopic.php?p=569364#p569364
I think we are cognitively not evolved enough to experience meaning.
Point is the meaning of life is inherent and one effectively has to experience it spontaneously and naturally.

Are you familiar with 'Flow'
In positive psychology, a flow state, also known colloquially as being in the zone, is the mental state in which a person performing some activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. In essence, flow is characterized by the complete absorption in what one does, and a resulting transformation in one's sense of time.
In a flow state, one enable the inherent meaning to flow spontaneously and naturally without being conscious of what the meaning should be in accordance to one's beliefs.

Even the Bible advise one to be natural like the lilies in the field;
And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto [a]the measure of his life? 28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: [Mathew 6:27-28]

It is common wisdom in Eastern Spirituality not the be too bothered with the meaning of life but merely to allow it to flow and live it, but of course one must be serious in cultivating such a condition to achieve such a state of freedom;

Note the common wisdom; "Chop Wood, Carry Water" to denote spontaneous enlightenment without any concern to be conscious of what is the meaning of life. This has to come about after the effective rewiring of the brain to achieve such a state, not by intellectualizing what is the meaning of life.

What you want is for one to be conscious intellectually of such meaning. As such one can only be intellectually conscious to the degree of one's intellectual capacity but not one's spiritual capacity.
Unfortunately it is the suicidal who fall into this trapping, and when they failed to grasp the meaning of life in this intellectual sense, they commit suicide.
Yes, I am familiar with positive psychology. So do you agree that we don't have the mental capacity to experience the meaning of life?
popeye1945
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by popeye1945 »

bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:58 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:19 am
bahman wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:31 pm Whatever it is it cannot be in the thought and feeling category. Well, if there is such a thing as the meaning of life then one should be able to experience it.
bahman,

Life is without meaning, a lot of protoplasma with an urge to reproduce but with one species that asks the question, the answer has to be you have to make it meaningful, or not. The fact that biology is the source of all meaning means we are creators in this world and thus it is within our power to make life meaningful. Nature should give you a good indication of just how meaningless life is in its nature of red in tooth and claw.
We are aware that something is missing in our lives, meaning, but we don't know what it is.
bahman,
Perhaps it is different for different people, for most of us I think it is others and the world in which we find ourselves, community love, and sense of feeling useful to ourselves and others. Whatever it is it's not something transcendent.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
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Re: What is the meaning of life?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:04 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:44 am
bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:35 pm
I think we are cognitively not evolved enough to experience meaning.
Point is the meaning of life is inherent and one effectively has to experience it spontaneously and naturally.

Are you familiar with 'Flow'
In positive psychology, a flow state, also known colloquially as being in the zone, is the mental state in which a person performing some activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. In essence, flow is characterized by the complete absorption in what one does, and a resulting transformation in one's sense of time.
In a flow state, one enable the inherent meaning to flow spontaneously and naturally without being conscious of what the meaning should be in accordance to one's beliefs.

Even the Bible advise one to be natural like the lilies in the field;
And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto [a]the measure of his life? 28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: [Mathew 6:27-28]

It is common wisdom in Eastern Spirituality not the be too bothered with the meaning of life but merely to allow it to flow and live it, but of course one must be serious in cultivating such a condition to achieve such a state of freedom;

Note the common wisdom; "Chop Wood, Carry Water" to denote spontaneous enlightenment without any concern to be conscious of what is the meaning of life. This has to come about after the effective rewiring of the brain to achieve such a state, not by intellectualizing what is the meaning of life.

What you want is for one to be conscious intellectually of such meaning. As such one can only be intellectually conscious to the degree of one's intellectual capacity but not one's spiritual capacity.
Unfortunately it is the suicidal who fall into this trapping, and when they failed to grasp the meaning of life in this intellectual sense, they commit suicide.
Yes, I am familiar with positive psychology. So do you agree that we don't have the mental capacity to experience the meaning of life?
I do not agree we don't have the mental capacity to experience the meaning of life.

I believe otherwise.
If it is only the suicidal and those who have committed suicide who don't have the mental capacity [due to brain defects] to experience the inherent meaning of life.
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