Relational Truths Mean Nothing

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:56 am Change and temporality are the only things in the world guaranteed, all things are temporal.
This makes temporality intemporal and a contradiction ensues.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:31 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:47 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:45 pm
If you don't know that then you have no argument at all.
You are avoiding answering the question. If "relational truths mean nothing" are false then "relational truths mean something". What is this "thing"?
The idea of a "thing" is non problematic. We all have learned to live with the idea from the context given by language. You seem to have lost connection with the most basic human understandings. Your posts are confused, diffuse, self defeating and generally meaningless, even to yourself.
If you do not know what "thing" means then use a fucking dictionary. If you have a problem with the definition then do tell us why.
1. Saying a "thing" is non-problematic is to give an unclear definition of said thing as there are an indefinite number of unclear phenomena.

2. "an object that one need not, cannot, or does not wish to give a specific name to."
https://www.google.com/search?q=thing+d ... e&ie=UTF-8

This above definition contradicts itself as to reduce an object to a "thing" is to give a specific name to it that is able to be universally applied; a "thing" is a single name to a universal set of phenomena thus is specific due to this singularness. To apply a universal name is to reduce a phenomena to a single phenomenon thus necessitating specificness.

"an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being."
https://www.google.com/search?q=thing+d ... e&ie=UTF-8

This above definition contradicts itself through a false dichotomy considering the category of "inanimate" and "animate" cannot be fully seperated as both interacts with the other and composes the other. They can only be defined according to intuition, but intuition is not only irrational but not universal otherwise people would not be disagreeing over basic self-evident truths.


3. The problem is that one thing is defined by another thing thus leading to a self-referential non-contrast of "the thing" which further leaves it as indefinite therefore "no-thing". "Thing" is a vague idea only assumed and it requires contrast. Without contrast there is no thing. When reducing "things" we are eventually led to a common source, ie "atoms" or "space" or "form". This common source necessitates sameness and with this sameness comes indefiniteness therefore one can say "all things are reducible to "nothing"" as "nothingness" is sameness. We only account for multiple atoms/spaces/forms because of a multiplicity of positions, but without these positions there is no contrast amidst these "things". Contrast is thus seperation, but given the continuity of forms necessitating sameness what connects said "things" is no-thing.
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:29 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:56 am Change and temporality are the only things in the world guaranteed, all things are temporal.
This makes temporality intemporal and a contradiction ensues.
Eodnhoj7,

Intemporal means not temporal, no contradiction, temporality is a constant, and change infers the temporal.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8535
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Sculptor »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:37 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:31 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:47 pm

You are avoiding answering the question. If "relational truths mean nothing" are false then "relational truths mean something". What is this "thing"?
The idea of a "thing" is non problematic. We all have learned to live with the idea from the context given by language. You seem to have lost connection with the most basic human understandings. Your posts are confused, diffuse, self defeating and generally meaningless, even to yourself.
If you do not know what "thing" means then use a fucking dictionary. If you have a problem with the definition then do tell us why.
1. Saying a "thing" is non-problematic is to give an unclear definition of said thing as there are an indefinite number of unclear phenomena.

2. "an object that one need not, cannot, or does not wish to give a specific name to."
https://www.google.com/search?q=thing+d ... e&ie=UTF-8

This above definition contradicts itself as to reduce an object to a "thing" is to give a specific name to it that is able to be universally applied; a "thing" is a single name to a universal set of phenomena thus is specific due to this singularness. To apply a universal name is to reduce a phenomena to a single phenomenon thus necessitating specificness.

"an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being."
https://www.google.com/search?q=thing+d ... e&ie=UTF-8

This above definition contradicts itself through a false dichotomy considering the category of "inanimate" and "animate" cannot be fully seperated as both interacts with the other and composes the other. They can only be defined according to intuition, but intuition is not only irrational but not universal otherwise people would not be disagreeing over basic self-evident truths.


3. The problem is that one thing is defined by another thing thus leading to a self-referential non-contrast of "the thing" which further leaves it as indefinite therefore "no-thing". "Thing" is a vague idea only assumed and it requires contrast. Without contrast there is no thing. When reducing "things" we are eventually led to a common source, ie "atoms" or "space" or "form". This common source necessitates sameness and with this sameness comes indefiniteness therefore one can say "all things are reducible to "nothing"" as "nothingness" is sameness. We only account for multiple atoms/spaces/forms because of a multiplicity of positions, but without these positions there is no contrast amidst these "things". Contrast is thus seperation, but given the continuity of forms necessitating sameness what connects said "things" is no-thing.
Ecmandu,
Please refer to my previous posts as these issues have already been taken care of.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:42 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:29 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:56 am Change and temporality are the only things in the world guaranteed, all things are temporal.
This makes temporality intemporal and a contradiction ensues.
Eodnhoj7,

Intemporal means not temporal, no contradiction, temporality is a constant, and change infers the temporal.
Infinite time necessitates time without time.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Sculptor wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:40 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:37 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:31 pm

The idea of a "thing" is non problematic. We all have learned to live with the idea from the context given by language. You seem to have lost connection with the most basic human understandings. Your posts are confused, diffuse, self defeating and generally meaningless, even to yourself.
If you do not know what "thing" means then use a fucking dictionary. If you have a problem with the definition then do tell us why.
1. Saying a "thing" is non-problematic is to give an unclear definition of said thing as there are an indefinite number of unclear phenomena.

2. "an object that one need not, cannot, or does not wish to give a specific name to."
https://www.google.com/search?q=thing+d ... e&ie=UTF-8

This above definition contradicts itself as to reduce an object to a "thing" is to give a specific name to it that is able to be universally applied; a "thing" is a single name to a universal set of phenomena thus is specific due to this singularness. To apply a universal name is to reduce a phenomena to a single phenomenon thus necessitating specificness.

"an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being."
https://www.google.com/search?q=thing+d ... e&ie=UTF-8

This above definition contradicts itself through a false dichotomy considering the category of "inanimate" and "animate" cannot be fully seperated as both interacts with the other and composes the other. They can only be defined according to intuition, but intuition is not only irrational but not universal otherwise people would not be disagreeing over basic self-evident truths.


3. The problem is that one thing is defined by another thing thus leading to a self-referential non-contrast of "the thing" which further leaves it as indefinite therefore "no-thing". "Thing" is a vague idea only assumed and it requires contrast. Without contrast there is no thing. When reducing "things" we are eventually led to a common source, ie "atoms" or "space" or "form". This common source necessitates sameness and with this sameness comes indefiniteness therefore one can say "all things are reducible to "nothing"" as "nothingness" is sameness. We only account for multiple atoms/spaces/forms because of a multiplicity of positions, but without these positions there is no contrast amidst these "things". Contrast is thus seperation, but given the continuity of forms necessitating sameness what connects said "things" is no-thing.
Ecmandu,
Please refer to my previous posts as these issues have already been taken care of.
No, they have not.
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:24 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:42 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:29 pm

This makes temporality intemporal and a contradiction ensues.
Eodnhoj7,

Intemporal means not temporal, no contradiction, temporality is a constant, and change infers the temporal.
Infinite time necessitates time without time.
You need to deal with what is stated in the post you are responding to.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8535
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Sculptor »

popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 1:19 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:24 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:42 am

Eodnhoj7,

Intemporal means not temporal, no contradiction, temporality is a constant, and change infers the temporal.
Infinite time necessitates time without time.
You need to deal with what is stated in the post you are responding to.
That's what I keep saying.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 1:19 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:24 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:42 am

Eodnhoj7,

Intemporal means not temporal, no contradiction, temporality is a constant, and change infers the temporal.
Infinite time necessitates time without time.
You need to deal with what is stated in the post you are responding to.
I just did; the fact that it is unchanging that there is time means time exists without time.
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:15 am
popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 1:19 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:24 pm

Infinite time necessitates time without time.
You need to deal with what is stated in the post you are responding to.
I just did; the fact that it is unchanging that there is time means time exists without time.
Time is not something tangible there is not time without perception/experience. Time without time is a nonsense phrase.
CHNOPS
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:11 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by CHNOPS »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:56 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:15 am
popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 1:19 am

You need to deal with what is stated in the post you are responding to.
I just did; the fact that it is unchanging that there is time means time exists without time.
Time is not something tangible there is not time without perception/experience. Time without time is a nonsense phrase.
True.

El tiempo es la COMPARACIÓN entre 2 estados. Necesitás experimentar A y B para compararlos y eso es el "tiempo", el cambio de un estado a otro.

Time without time is like saying "change without change".

Time is not special. Is not a magic thing. Is not "an energy that moves the things". Is just that things, that we compare.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:56 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:15 am
popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 1:19 am

You need to deal with what is stated in the post you are responding to.
I just did; the fact that it is unchanging that there is time means time exists without time.
Time is not something tangible there is not time without perception/experience. Time without time is a nonsense phrase.
Time is tangible as it is inseparable from substance. When I am holding an apple I am holding a series of changes thus I am holding a portion of time. The rate of change in the apple necessitates the apple as its own time zone.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

CHNOPS wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:00 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:56 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:15 am

I just did; the fact that it is unchanging that there is time means time exists without time.
Time is not something tangible there is not time without perception/experience. Time without time is a nonsense phrase.
True.

El tiempo es la COMPARACIÓN entre 2 estados. Necesitás experimentar A y B para compararlos y eso es el "tiempo", el cambio de un estado a otro.

Time without time is like saying "change without change".

Time is not special. Is not a magic thing. Is not "an energy that moves the things". Is just that things, that we compare.
If it does not change that there is time then the phenomenon of time is not fully subject to time. Unending time is paradoxical.

The more things change the more they stay the same. The continual change in a series of apples dying and reproducing necessitates the apple as ever present thus unchanging. Change and no-change are intertwined.
popeye1945
Posts: 2130
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by popeye1945 »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 6:59 pm
CHNOPS wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:00 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:56 am

Time is not something tangible there is not time without perception/experience. Time without time is a nonsense phrase.
True.

El tiempo es la COMPARACIÓN entre 2 estados. Necesitás experimentar A y B para compararlos y eso es el "tiempo", el cambio de un estado a otro.
Time without time is like saying "change without change".
Time is not special. Is not a magic thing. Is not "an energy that moves the things". Is just that things, that we compare.
If it does not change that there is time then the phenomenon of time is not fully subject to time. Unending time is paradoxical.
The more things change the more they stay the same. The continual change in a series of apples dying and reproducing necessitates the apple as ever present thus unchanging. Change and no-change are intertwined.
All things are temporal, which makes your statement absurd.
CHNOPS
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:11 am

Re: Relational Truths Mean Nothing

Post by CHNOPS »

Simlpify the universe.

Dont think the universe as stars, galaxies, simplify it as it is 3 píxels. Red, Green, Blue and Yellow.

Think the first origin of the universe asi it has the Red and Green pixel are in top and Blue and Yellow below.

Then, "one second later", imagine that in the top now are the Red and Blue pixel and below is Green and Yellow.

What is "time"?....

There are just that 4 pixels. Nothing more. Just the pixels...
Post Reply