Why is slavery wrong?
- Alexis Jacobi
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
I have no idea how to respond to that Henry. I can't take you seriously and I suspect you are bing outrageous for effect.
-
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:35 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Slavery is wrong, due to the logical conclusion of slavery, which means nobody having the ability to move.
- henry quirk
- Posts: 14706
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
- Location: Right here, a little less busy.
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
nah, just callin' it as I see itAlexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:32 pm I have no idea how to respond to that Henry. I can't take you seriously and I suspect you are bing outrageous for effect.
- Immanuel Can
- Posts: 22265
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Slaves don't have contracts.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:59 am ...the website is about 'forced labor' in its various forms but it is not about 'chattel' slavery where humans are traded as a property contractually.
What are you smoking?
So? Nobody else has reason to. You haven't provided any.I believe the intuition
You're missing the point: the enslavers know darn well there will be suffering. But you haven't shown that causing suffering is wrong. So they have no reason to be concerned.The practice of slavery and the consequences of sufferings are very obvious.The enslavers don't care. And you haven't given them any reason to do so.It is obvious the consequences of chattel-slavery is terrible mental and physical sufferings to the slave.
Not everywhere, and not nearly everywhere. You need to give us a reason to know that it should be.... 'chattel-slavery' is legally wrong.
Irrelevant. But if it were done, and included all the "adults" of history, it would fail anyway. Even today, it would not be nearly universal. That doesn't "test" anything except opinion, and opinions aren't binding morally.I believe I wrote it in one of the post, i.e.So what are the tests?
1. Do a personal survey
Fake answer. "Various" is not a description of any particular neurological test. You have nothing in mind, obviously.2. Do various neuro-psychological test
Sure I will. So will a lot of people.you will not doubt my proposals that such tests are possible in the future
There is no "neurological testing" to prove a value question. Rightness and wrongness is a value assessment. There will never be a physical test for a metaphysical entity. That's obvious.
-
- Posts: 12376
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
What are you smoking???Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:36 amSlaves don't have contracts.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:59 am ...the website is about 'forced labor' in its various forms but it is not about 'chattel' slavery where humans are traded as a property contractually.
What are you smoking?
So? Nobody else has reason to. You haven't provided any.I believe the intuition
How can you be so naive to expect a slave to sign a contract with the enslaver??
Didn't you read the link I provided that differentiated between 'chattel slavery' from 'forced labors' and other forms of slavery??
Your deliberate avoidance on the above information reflect your low intellectual integrity.
Read this again, slowly this time to allow the knowledge to sink in.
Chattel slavery
As a social institution, chattel slavery denies the human agency of people, by legally dehumanising them into chattels (personal property) owned by the enslaver;
therefore slaves give birth to slaves; the children of slaves are born enslaved, under legal doctrines, such as the 2100 BCE, Code of Ur-Nammu ("4. If a slave marries a slave, and that slave is set free, he does not leave the household. 5.
If a slave marries a native [i.e. free] person, he/she is to hand the firstborn son over to his owner. ...") or 1662 CE partus sequitur ventrem ("That which is brought forth follows the womb").[16] Like livestock, they can be bought and sold at will.[17]
Legally a chattel slave could be used sexually in any way her owner desired; females had no right to refuse, and in the Antebellum period in the United States many enslaved females were forced to become pregnant and give birth repeatedly, with no say about who impregnated them; their children were usually taken from them and sold, as if they were calves. (See children of the plantation for this practice in the United States.)
While some form of slavery was common throughout human history, the specific notion of chattel slavery described above reached its modern extreme in the Americas.[18]
Beginning in the 18th century an abolitionist movement saw slavery as a violation of everyone's right as a person ("all men are created equal"), and sought to abolish it.
This movement was successful; the last Western country to abolish slavery, Brazil, did so in 1888.[19]
The last third-world country to abolish slavery, Mauritania, did not do so until 1981
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Chattel_slavery
I never claimed the ALL enslaver are not aware the slave are not suffering. Some are aware but chose to ignore it for profit and personal interests sake.You're missing the point: the enslavers know darn well there will be suffering. But you haven't shown that causing suffering is wrong. So they have no reason to be concerned.The practice of slavery and the consequences of sufferings are very obvious.The enslavers don't care. And you haven't given them any reason to do so.
But any enslaver who is a psychopath will never understand and feel the sufferings of others.
That there are laws that punishes evil acts is implicit 'inflicting sufferings on others' is wrong. Note this is implied in the statement below.
- The last third-world country to abolish slavery, Mauritania, did not do so until 1981
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Chattel_slavery
Note again and implied in the below;Not everywhere, and not nearly everywhere. You need to give us a reason to know that it should be.... 'chattel-slavery' is legally wrong.
- The last third-world country to abolish slavery, Mauritania, did not do so until 1981
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Chattel_slavery
I won't waste time justifying the above.Irrelevant. But if it were done, and included all the "adults" of history, it would fail anyway. Even today, it would not be nearly universal. That doesn't "test" anything except opinion, and opinions aren't binding morally.I believe I wrote it in one of the post, i.e.So what are the tests?
1. Do a personal survey
Fake answer. "Various" is not a description of any particular neurological test. You have nothing in mind, obviously.2. Do various neuro-psychological test
Sure I will. So will a lot of people.you will not doubt my proposals that such tests are possible in the future
There is no "neurological testing" to prove a value question. Rightness and wrongness is a value assessment. There will never be a physical test for a metaphysical entity. That's obvious.
Your ignorance of the above is due to your laziness in reading and researching further and I believe this hindrance is due to your theistic beliefs which generally deter the necessary progress for humanity.
- Immanuel Can
- Posts: 22265
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
That's my question to you. You seem to think that if there's no contract, or no government approval, then what's happening doesn't count in your slavery statistics. Heck, you think that if people just prefer not to be enslaved, that should be enough to keep enslavers from doing it.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:48 am How can you be so naive to expect a slave to sign a contract with the enslaver??
I have no idea how you can think either thing. But that's what you've claimed.
-
- Posts: 12376
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
How can you be so ignorant even when I have highlighted the difference between 'chattel' slavery and other forms of slavery?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:39 amThat's my question to you. You seem to think that if there's no contract, or no government approval, then what's happening doesn't count in your slavery statistics. Heck, you think that if people just prefer not to be enslaved, that should be enough to keep enslavers from doing it.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:48 am How can you be so naive to expect a slave to sign a contract with the enslaver??
I have no idea how you can think either thing. But that's what you've claimed.
Note you are the one who implied all forms of slavery are the same.
When I mentioned specifically 'chattel' slavery [re slavery convention] is fully ratified by all sovereign nations, you veered off and resorted to the what about 'forced labor' [site linked] etc.
Slavery is a loose term and I deliberately specified my point related to slavery is confined to 'chattel' slavery only in this case.
In the long term, all forms of slavery must be abolished legally by all sovereign nations, but what is most critical is, subsequently in the future, slavery must be spontaneously taken as morally wrong by each individual voluntarily and as such any laws of on slavery will lose its significance.
I am sure you [& many] understand that from personal experience, i.e. one do not need to rely on external laws to tell or deter them that slavery is wrong.
In this case, you (& the many] has their own private internal laws that reflect chattel slavery [& other forms of slavery] is wrong, i.e. morally, despite your God not condemning slavery explicitly.
So you need to ask, where did this private internal laws [not from your God] and similar with others that detested chattel slavery within you/them arise from?
-
- Posts: 1813
- Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 1:22 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
I commend you Veritas Aequitas.
That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.
I commend you Veritas Aequitas.
- Alexis Jacobi
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Please send your commendations to me.reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 am Veritas Aequitas wrote:
That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.
I commend you Veritas Aequitas.
- Immanuel Can
- Posts: 22265
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
I said the opposite, actually. But all the forms of slavery in the statistics I sent you...you cannot possibly call "not slavery." Not if you're a reasonable person. Forced labour is slavery. So is sex slavery. The thing that makes a slave a slave is not the disposition of the government nor the existence of a "contract" as you imply, but rather the use of force to compel his/her servitude.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:09 am ...you are the one who implied all forms of slavery are the same.
But you know that. You're just dogding the obvious facts again.
Why "must" it? That's the question you just don't want to answer....in the future, slavery must be spontaneously taken as morally wrong by each individual...
-
- Posts: 1813
- Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 1:22 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Post by Alexis Jacobi » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:35 pm
Correction poster's name should read Alexis Jacobi.
Alexis Jacobi wrote:
The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.
That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.
I commend you Alexis Jacobi
Post by Alexis Jacobi » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:35 pm
Please send your commendations to me.
Correction poster's name should read Alexis Jacobi.
Alexis Jacobi wrote:
The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.
That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.
I commend you Alexis Jacobi
- vegetariantaxidermy
- Posts: 13983
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
- Location: Narniabiznus
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
What a racist kunt.reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:59 pm Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Post by Alexis Jacobi » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:35 pm
Please send your commendations to me.
Correction poster's name should read Alexis Jacobi.
Alexis Jacobi wrote:
The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.
That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.
I commend you Alexis Jacobi
-
- Posts: 1813
- Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 1:22 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
vegetariantaxidermy
Your cynicism is your stumbling point.
Your cynicism is your stumbling point.
- Alexis Jacobi
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Have you yet got an answer to the central question? Is enslavement of another human wrong (wrong, evil, sinful)? and if so Why?
I have not seen one so far.
- henry quirk
- Posts: 14706
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
- Location: Right here, a little less busy.
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
not a fan of natural rights? interestin' considerin' your predilectionsAlexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:01 pmHave you yet got an answer to the central question? Is enslavement of another human wrong (wrong, evil, sinful)? and if so Why?
I have not seen one so far.
as I say in the amended opening: this thread is about why you think or know slavery is wrong (or why slavery is a-ok by you)
if you play, you pay: your take?