Why is slavery wrong?

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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

I have no idea how to respond to that Henry. I can't take you seriously and I suspect you are bing outrageous for effect.
trokanmariel
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by trokanmariel »

Slavery is wrong, due to the logical conclusion of slavery, which means nobody having the ability to move.
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henry quirk
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

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Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:32 pm I have no idea how to respond to that Henry. I can't take you seriously and I suspect you are bing outrageous for effect.
nah, just callin' it as I see it
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:59 am ...the website is about 'forced labor' in its various forms but it is not about 'chattel' slavery where humans are traded as a property contractually.
Slaves don't have contracts.

What are you smoking?
I believe the intuition
So? Nobody else has reason to. You haven't provided any.
It is obvious the consequences of chattel-slavery is terrible mental and physical sufferings to the slave.
The enslavers don't care. And you haven't given them any reason to do so.
The practice of slavery and the consequences of sufferings are very obvious.
You're missing the point: the enslavers know darn well there will be suffering. But you haven't shown that causing suffering is wrong. So they have no reason to be concerned.
... 'chattel-slavery' is legally wrong.
Not everywhere, and not nearly everywhere. You need to give us a reason to know that it should be.

So what are the tests?
I believe I wrote it in one of the post, i.e.

1. Do a personal survey
Irrelevant. But if it were done, and included all the "adults" of history, it would fail anyway. Even today, it would not be nearly universal. That doesn't "test" anything except opinion, and opinions aren't binding morally.
2. Do various neuro-psychological test
Fake answer. "Various" is not a description of any particular neurological test. You have nothing in mind, obviously.
you will not doubt my proposals that such tests are possible in the future
Sure I will. So will a lot of people.

There is no "neurological testing" to prove a value question. Rightness and wrongness is a value assessment. There will never be a physical test for a metaphysical entity. That's obvious.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:36 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:59 am ...the website is about 'forced labor' in its various forms but it is not about 'chattel' slavery where humans are traded as a property contractually.
Slaves don't have contracts.

What are you smoking?
I believe the intuition
So? Nobody else has reason to. You haven't provided any.
What are you smoking???
How can you be so naive to expect a slave to sign a contract with the enslaver??

Didn't you read the link I provided that differentiated between 'chattel slavery' from 'forced labors' and other forms of slavery??
Your deliberate avoidance on the above information reflect your low intellectual integrity.

Read this again, slowly this time to allow the knowledge to sink in.
Chattel slavery
As a social institution, chattel slavery denies the human agency of people, by legally dehumanising them into chattels (personal property) owned by the enslaver;
therefore slaves give birth to slaves; the children of slaves are born enslaved, under legal doctrines, such as the 2100 BCE, Code of Ur-Nammu ("4. If a slave marries a slave, and that slave is set free, he does not leave the household. 5.

If a slave marries a native [i.e. free] person, he/she is to hand the firstborn son over to his owner. ...") or 1662 CE partus sequitur ventrem ("That which is brought forth follows the womb").[16] Like livestock, they can be bought and sold at will.[17]

Legally a chattel slave could be used sexually in any way her owner desired; females had no right to refuse, and in the Antebellum period in the United States many enslaved females were forced to become pregnant and give birth repeatedly, with no say about who impregnated them; their children were usually taken from them and sold, as if they were calves. (See children of the plantation for this practice in the United States.)

While some form of slavery was common throughout human history, the specific notion of chattel slavery described above reached its modern extreme in the Americas.[18]
Beginning in the 18th century an abolitionist movement saw slavery as a violation of everyone's right as a person ("all men are created equal"), and sought to abolish it.
This movement was successful; the last Western country to abolish slavery, Brazil, did so in 1888.[19]
The last third-world country to abolish slavery, Mauritania, did not do so until 1981
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Chattel_slavery

The enslavers don't care. And you haven't given them any reason to do so.
The practice of slavery and the consequences of sufferings are very obvious.
You're missing the point: the enslavers know darn well there will be suffering. But you haven't shown that causing suffering is wrong. So they have no reason to be concerned.
I never claimed the ALL enslaver are not aware the slave are not suffering. Some are aware but chose to ignore it for profit and personal interests sake.
But any enslaver who is a psychopath will never understand and feel the sufferings of others.

That there are laws that punishes evil acts is implicit 'inflicting sufferings on others' is wrong. Note this is implied in the statement below.
... 'chattel-slavery' is legally wrong.
Not everywhere, and not nearly everywhere. You need to give us a reason to know that it should be.
Note again and implied in the below;
The above reflected your ignorance. Suggest you do more reading and research on the related issue.
So what are the tests?
I believe I wrote it in one of the post, i.e.

1. Do a personal survey
Irrelevant. But if it were done, and included all the "adults" of history, it would fail anyway. Even today, it would not be nearly universal. That doesn't "test" anything except opinion, and opinions aren't binding morally.
2. Do various neuro-psychological test
Fake answer. "Various" is not a description of any particular neurological test. You have nothing in mind, obviously.
you will not doubt my proposals that such tests are possible in the future
Sure I will. So will a lot of people.

There is no "neurological testing" to prove a value question. Rightness and wrongness is a value assessment. There will never be a physical test for a metaphysical entity. That's obvious.
I won't waste time justifying the above.

Your ignorance of the above is due to your laziness in reading and researching further and I believe this hindrance is due to your theistic beliefs which generally deter the necessary progress for humanity.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:48 am How can you be so naive to expect a slave to sign a contract with the enslaver??
That's my question to you. You seem to think that if there's no contract, or no government approval, then what's happening doesn't count in your slavery statistics. Heck, you think that if people just prefer not to be enslaved, that should be enough to keep enslavers from doing it.

I have no idea how you can think either thing. But that's what you've claimed.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:39 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:48 am How can you be so naive to expect a slave to sign a contract with the enslaver??
That's my question to you. You seem to think that if there's no contract, or no government approval, then what's happening doesn't count in your slavery statistics. Heck, you think that if people just prefer not to be enslaved, that should be enough to keep enslavers from doing it.

I have no idea how you can think either thing. But that's what you've claimed.
How can you be so ignorant even when I have highlighted the difference between 'chattel' slavery and other forms of slavery?
Note you are the one who implied all forms of slavery are the same.

When I mentioned specifically 'chattel' slavery [re slavery convention] is fully ratified by all sovereign nations, you veered off and resorted to the what about 'forced labor' [site linked] etc.

Slavery is a loose term and I deliberately specified my point related to slavery is confined to 'chattel' slavery only in this case.

In the long term, all forms of slavery must be abolished legally by all sovereign nations, but what is most critical is, subsequently in the future, slavery must be spontaneously taken as morally wrong by each individual voluntarily and as such any laws of on slavery will lose its significance.

I am sure you [& many] understand that from personal experience, i.e. one do not need to rely on external laws to tell or deter them that slavery is wrong.
In this case, you (& the many] has their own private internal laws that reflect chattel slavery [& other forms of slavery] is wrong, i.e. morally, despite your God not condemning slavery explicitly.

So you need to ask, where did this private internal laws [not from your God] and similar with others that detested chattel slavery within you/them arise from?
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.
That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.

I commend you Veritas Aequitas.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

reasonvemotion wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 am Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.
That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.

I commend you Veritas Aequitas.
Please send your commendations to me.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:09 am ...you are the one who implied all forms of slavery are the same.
I said the opposite, actually. But all the forms of slavery in the statistics I sent you...you cannot possibly call "not slavery." Not if you're a reasonable person. Forced labour is slavery. So is sex slavery. The thing that makes a slave a slave is not the disposition of the government nor the existence of a "contract" as you imply, but rather the use of force to compel his/her servitude.

But you know that. You're just dogding the obvious facts again.
...in the future, slavery must be spontaneously taken as morally wrong by each individual...
Why "must" it? That's the question you just don't want to answer.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Post by Alexis Jacobi » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:35 pm
Please send your commendations to me.


Correction poster's name should read Alexis Jacobi.

Alexis Jacobi
wrote:
The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.

That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.

I commend you Alexis Jacobi
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

reasonvemotion wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:59 pm Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Post by Alexis Jacobi » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:35 pm
Please send your commendations to me.


Correction poster's name should read Alexis Jacobi.

Alexis Jacobi
wrote:
The reality of African American struggle is not and I suggest could never be intelligible to Whites at the most basic level. It is something those Whites can *gaze on* and muse about. But only the one who has lived it can be said to understand it.

That is the most palpable description of the African American struggle.

I commend you Alexis Jacobi
What a racist kunt.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

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vegetariantaxidermy

Your cynicism is your stumbling point.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:39 am That's my question to you.
Have you yet got an answer to the central question? Is enslavement of another human wrong (wrong, evil, sinful)? and if so Why?

I have not seen one so far.
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henry quirk
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?

Post by henry quirk »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:01 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:39 am That's my question to you.
Have you yet got an answer to the central question? Is enslavement of another human wrong (wrong, evil, sinful)? and if so Why?

I have not seen one so far.
not a fan of natural rights? interestin' considerin' your predilections

as I say in the amended opening: this thread is about why you think or know slavery is wrong (or why slavery is a-ok by you)

if you play, you pay: your take?
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