Can someone force us to do something unless we consent to doing it?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:23 pmI can't even figure out how this question is supposed to make sense, DAM.
"Being forced" and "consenting" are opposite propositions.
Why is slavery wrong?
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Why is involuntary, chattel-type slavery wrong?
okay...we can go with that...me, I think it's unnecessary overkill, but, alright
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Why is involuntary, chattel-type slavery wrong?
okay...we can go with that...me, I think it's unnecessary overkill, but, alright
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Why is involuntary, chattel-type slavery wrong?
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?
by definition, consent is freely givenDontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:24 pmCan someone force us to do something unless we consent to doing it?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:23 pmzI can't even figure out how this question is supposed to make sense, DAM.
"Being forced" and "consenting" are opposite propositions.
if joe, while holdin' a gun to her head, tells stella give up the trim or I blow your head off, stella is bein' coerced, her consent, her capacity to give it, is short circuited...she can't say no and walk away: she has to submit, die, or fight, none of which was on her agenda for the evening
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?
That's the only terms on which they can "force" us. That's by definition. If we "consent," they didn't "force" us at all.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:24 pmCan someone force us to do something unless we consent to doing it?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:23 pmI can't even figure out how this question is supposed to make sense, DAM.
"Being forced" and "consenting" are opposite propositions.
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Then supposing we do not consent to being forced to do something, we refuse point blank to do what they force us to do, then how can we say we are being forced to do something, how can someone force someone to do what they refuse to do?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:38 pmThat's the only terms on which they can "force" us. That's by definition. If we "consent," they didn't "force" us at all.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:24 pmCan someone force us to do something unless we consent to doing it?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:23 pm
I can't even figure out how this question is supposed to make sense, DAM.
"Being forced" and "consenting" are opposite propositions.
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Then all that is saying is that if we do not subscribe to slavery then we will end up dead,so in order to survive one has to give in to being used as a slave… is that what you mean?henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:38 pmby definition, consent is freely givenDontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:24 pmCan someone force us to do something unless we consent to doing it?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:23 pmz
I can't even figure out how this question is supposed to make sense, DAM.
"Being forced" and "consenting" are opposite propositions.
if joe, while holdin' a gun to her head, tells stella give up the trim or I blow your head off, stella is bein' coerced, her consent, her capacity to give it, is short circuited...she can't say no and walk away: she has to submit, die, or fight, none of which was on her agenda for the evening
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?
You're confused.
To "force" somebody is, by definition, to make them do something they "refuse" or "do not choose" to do.
If they do not refuse, or they choose to do it, then no force is implicated or necessary.
This is so simple: how are you having trouble with this? Are you trying to say something profound, and just missing wildly?
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
I’m just trying to respond in the only way I know how, it’s not supposed to be profound.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:56 pmYou're confused.
To "force" somebody is, by definition, to make them do something they "refuse" or "do not choose" to do.
If they do not refuse, or they choose to do it, then no force is implicated or necessary.
This is so simple: how are you having trouble with this? Are you trying to say something profound, and just missing wildly?
Let me try again… I’ll put it another way…how can we be forced to do something against our will?
What I mean is can we be forced to be a slave?
Last edited by Dontaskme on Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?
*sigh*Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pmThen all that is saying is that if we do not subscribe to slavery then we will end up dead,so in order to survive one has to give in to being used as a slave… is that what you mean?henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:38 pmby definition, consent is freely given
if joe, while holdin' a gun to her head, tells stella give up the trim or I blow your head off, stella is bein' coerced, her consent, her capacity to give it, is short circuited...she can't say no and walk away: she has to submit, die, or fight, none of which was on her agenda for the evening
sam the slaver sez DAM, you seem to be a fine piece of meat...I could get good money sellin' you to them lil yellow bastids overseas...he won't take no for an answer
you can submit (this is not consent, but resignation)
you can die (this is not consent, but defiance)
(and -- really -- these are different versions of the same thing)
you can fight (this is not consent, but defiance with the possibility you'll win)
only if you can say nope, bein' a slave ain't for me and then peaceably walk away can consent be involved (and, as I say, no sane person wants to be a slave, so no sane person would consent to such a thing)
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Henry all I’m trying to say is that if someone can enlslave us and we agree to being enslaved then we are participating in our own slavery , we agree to be slaves…so how can that be wrong?henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:03 pm*sigh*Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pmThen all that is saying is that if we do not subscribe to slavery then we will end up dead,so in order to survive one has to give in to being used as a slave… is that what you mean?henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:38 pm
by definition, consent is freely given
if joe, while holdin' a gun to her head, tells stella give up the trim or I blow your head off, stella is bein' coerced, her consent, her capacity to give it, is short circuited...she can't say no and walk away: she has to submit, die, or fight, none of which was on her agenda for the evening
sam the slaver sez DAM, you seem to be a fine piece of meat...I could get good money sellin' you to them lil yellow bastids overseas...he won't take no for an answer
you can submit (this is not consent, but resignation)
you can die (this is not consent, but defiance)
(and -- really -- these are different versions of the same thing)
you can fight (this is not consent, but defiance with the possibility you'll win)
only if you can say nope, bein' a slave ain't for me and then peaceably walk away can consent be involved (and, as I say, no sane person wants to be a slave, so no sane person would consent to such a thing)
I’m sorry if I’m not understanding you, I am trying my best.
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?
What a completely bizarre question.
The ONLY way you can be "forced" to do something is if it is "against your will." And the answer is, "Using force."
Wow. I can't believe you're having any trouble with this at all.
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Ok then let me ask you this question, would you personally involve your own self to do slave labour? Would you be a slave?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:09 pmWhat a completely bizarre question.
The ONLY way you can be "forced" to do something is if it is "against your will." And the answer is, "Using force."
Wow. I can't believe you're having any trouble with this at all.
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:03 pm*sigh*Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pmThen all that is saying is that if we do not subscribe to slavery then we will end up dead,so in order to survive one has to give in to being used as a slave… is that what you mean?henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:38 pm
by definition, consent is freely given
if joe, while holdin' a gun to her head, tells stella give up the trim or I blow your head off, stella is bein' coerced, her consent, her capacity to give it, is short circuited...she can't say no and walk away: she has to submit, die, or fight, none of which was on her agenda for the evening
sam the slaver sez DAM, you seem to be a fine piece of meat...I could get good money sellin' you to them lil yellow bastids overseas...he won't take no for an answer
you can submit (this is not consent, but resignation)
you can die (this is not consent, but defiance)
(and -- really -- these are different versions of the same thing)
you can fight (this is not consent, but defiance with the possibility you'll win)
only if you can say nope, bein' a slave ain't for me and then peaceably walk away can consent be involved (and, as I say, no sane person wants to be a slave, so no sane person would consent to such a thing)
The slave trade is a big chunk of the economy you say, does that slave trade include you Henry? Are you a part of this slave trade, are you a slave too?right now, as I type, tens of thousands of men, women, and children are forced to labor for, to service, others
human trafficking is an industry: you won't find it on the nasdaq (any more than you'll find the billion-dollar illicit drug industry on the index), but a big chunk of the global economy is slave trade
Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Not believing someone is having trouble with what they are having trouble with is disrespectful by the way. I can only understand what I understand.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:09 pmWhat a completely bizarre question.
The ONLY way you can be "forced" to do something is if it is "against your will." And the answer is, "Using force."
Wow. I can't believe you're having any trouble with this at all.
- henry quirk
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Re: Why is slavery wrong?
Henry all I’m trying to say is that if someone can enlslave us and we agree to being enslaved then we are participating in our own slavery , we agree to be slaves…so how can that be wrong?
no one agrees to be enslaved, DAM
no sane person, in the history of the world, has ever said yep, bein' another man's property, that's the life for me!
even in cultures where submission is the norm, no one craves the leash and looks to wear it
why do folks avoid the leash? why do men fight against slavers? cuz each and every one knows he is his own, that no other has a claim to his flesh, his mind, or his soul
this intuition is universal: there has never been a human being who didn't know he is his own and that it's wrong for him to be enslaved
even the slaver doesn't want to to be a slave, knows he is his own
no one agrees to be enslaved, DAM
no sane person, in the history of the world, has ever said yep, bein' another man's property, that's the life for me!
even in cultures where submission is the norm, no one craves the leash and looks to wear it
why do folks avoid the leash? why do men fight against slavers? cuz each and every one knows he is his own, that no other has a claim to his flesh, his mind, or his soul
this intuition is universal: there has never been a human being who didn't know he is his own and that it's wrong for him to be enslaved
even the slaver doesn't want to to be a slave, knows he is his own