What is 'freedom'?

[henry quirk]

I don't bleat on constantly about my 'freedoms'.

we talk about the things that interest us: me, it's stuff like free will, personhood, life-liberty-property; you, it's yanks, worthless old folks, and baby-killin'

I'm not a big, fat hypocrite

yeah, you're a hypocrite: that's a given

I'm far more pro 'freedom' than you will ever be.

you can't even define it: What does 'freedom' even mean?

You can't even define it, except by using a lot of meaningless jargon.

self-directing, self-relying, bein' self-responsible is about about as basic, plain, and concrete as it gets, and the morality behind it is equally concrete...you know this: that's why you never counter my positions (unless you think insults and diversions are counters, in which case: good job)

but: let's test it...

here's a fundamental question, one illustratin', in the answer, what freedom is: why is slavery wrong?

answer, veggie: show me you still got a lil sumthin'-sumthin' under the hood

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Had to put the air-conditioning on. I just got a blast of hot air.
And the only people on here who bring up the topic of abortion on here are the hypocritical misogynistic male religioturds. I only brought it up here, against my better judgement, because it's such an obvious and blatant contradiction to your empty 'freedom' proclamations.

[henry quirk]

Had to put the air-conditioning on. I just got a blast of hot air.

menopause

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Had to put the air-conditioning on. I just got a blast of hot air.

menopause

Aww. Is your sagging ball-sack making you grumpy?

[henry quirk]

Had to put the air-conditioning on. I just got a blast of hot air.

menopause

Aww. Is your sagging ball-sack making you grumpy?

I'm not the one havin' hot flushes

[henry quirk]

What does 'freedom' even mean?

Self-direction, self-reliance, self-responsibility. There's a moral aspect as well, but nobody wants to talk about that.

...and...

Why is slavery wrong?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

menopause

Aww. Is your sagging ball-sack making you grumpy?

I'm not the one havin' hot flushes

Never had those either, doesn't mean I don't know empty bullshit when I encounter it. You talk in cliches. That's always tedious.

[henry quirk]

hey, veg: Why is slavery wrong?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

hey, veg: Why is slavery wrong?

According to you, just paying taxes is being a 'slave', so perhaps you shouldn't have abused and over-used the word so much. That's the trouble with misusing language--words lose their meaning...

[henry quirk]

Hey, don't worry about my extremisms and idiosyncrasies: this question is for you; it's about what you think...

Why is slavery wrong?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Hey, don't worry about my extremisms and idiosyncrasies: this question is for you; it's about what you think...

Why is slavery wrong?

Why do you assume I think it's 'wrong'?

[Veritas Aequitas]

"Freedom" in the human sense is "autonomy."

Autonomy: In developmental psychology and moral, political, and bioethical philosophy, autonomy [note 1] is the capacity to make an informed, uncoerced decision.
Wiki

Note1: autonomy: Ancient Greek: αὐτονομία, romanized: autonomia, from αὐτόνομος, autonomos, from αὐτο- auto- "self" and νόμος nomos, "law", hence when combined understood to mean "one who gives oneself one's own law" -Wiki

However, one's own law must be in alignment with the universal moral law of absolute good. It cannot be arbitrary and subject to one's whims.

[henry quirk]

Hey, don't worry about my extremisms and idiosyncrasies: this question is for you; it's about what you think...

Why is slavery wrong?

Why do you assume I think it's 'wrong'?

I know it's wrong. A person belongs to himself. You belong to you. To enslave you, to view you as, treat you as, property, is to ignore your self-possession. No one -- not you, me, not anyone -- believes it's their lot to be property. It's the single universal feature of all people. Even the slaver won't willingly accept enslavement.

Whether this universal feature reflects a moral reality or is just some evolutionary trait is irrelevant. What is relevant is no human being craves enslavement. Freedom (self-directing, self-relying, bein' self-responsible) is as necessary to us, as individuals, as food, water, and air.

[henry quirk]

"Freedom" in the human sense is "autonomy."

Autonomy: In developmental psychology and moral, political, and bioethical philosophy, autonomy [note 1] is the capacity to make an informed, uncoerced decision.
Wiki

Note1: autonomy: Ancient Greek: αὐτονομία, romanized: autonomia, from αὐτόνομος, autonomos, from αὐτο- auto- "self" and νόμος nomos, "law", hence when combined understood to mean "one who gives oneself one's own law" -Wiki

*However, one's own law must be in alignment with the universal moral law of absolute good. It cannot be arbitrary and subject to one's whims.

I think that's where natural law comes in: I belong to me, you belong to you; we're each free to do, or attempt to do, as we choose as long as we recognize we have no claim on each other.

In other words: your life, liberty, and property are yours and I ought to recognize and respect that, and vicea versa.

[Veritas Aequitas]

"Freedom" in the human sense is "autonomy."

Autonomy: In developmental psychology and moral, political, and bioethical philosophy, autonomy [note 1] is the capacity to make an informed, uncoerced decision.
Wiki

Note1: autonomy: Ancient Greek: αὐτονομία, romanized: autonomia, from αὐτόνομος, autonomos, from αὐτο- auto- "self" and νόμος nomos, "law", hence when combined understood to mean "one who gives oneself one's own law" -Wiki

*However, one's own law must be in alignment with the universal moral law of absolute good. It cannot be arbitrary and subject to one's whims.

I think that's where natural law comes in: I belong to me, you belong to you; we're each free to do, or attempt to do, as we choose as long as we recognize we have no claim on each other.

In other words: your life, liberty, and property are yours and I ought to recognize and respect that, and vicea versa.

What is 'freedom' and 'autonomy' is also conditioned upon the point that every individual must align with the same the universal moral law of absolute good. There can be no 'respect' if the other[s] are not in alignment with it.

The question is what is this the universal moral law of absolute good about and how can it be spontaneous within the person, which is very complicated. I won't go into a detailed discussion of it here.