henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:50 pm- That supports the obvious fact that people everywhere have an inherent resistance against being a cog in a machine.
- However, many folks are cogs, and gratefully so. After all, the alternative existence appears to be that of a diseased moose standing alone on the frozen tundra, just waiting to die. (just kidding)
- Evidence suggests that many people in many nations prefer to be a cog. Prefer to be a part of something bigger than a personal self, and thus be bigger than a personal self. Be all you can be, join the army. It rhymes.
- What is the evidence for this discrepancy between human nature and the comfort of cogdom?
it's marketing: plain and simple
tell a man, upfront, he'll be leashed, branded, and directed, and he'll balk
That is WHY 'you' are NOT TOLD "henry quirk".
'you' are enslaved SLOWLY and GRADUALLY so you are NOT AWARE of just what is happening to you, NOR of the 'cage' that has also gradually and slowly surrounded 'you'.
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:50 pm
but...
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:28 pm
If prisons were luxurious estates, where your every need was catered to and you could indulge your hobbies and interests (or not, as you so choose) in a safe and beautiful environment then I don't think many humans would object to being there. Heck, we even call the people who actually live like that 'privileged'.
no one wants coghood, but they'll accept it if it's marketed just right
BUT EVERY one WANTS and NEEDS so-called 'coghood'.
It is 'coghood' how society works BEST, for EVERY one.
NO one wants to be 'owned' by ANY 'thing' but EVERY one 'belongs' to, and wants to 'belong' to, SOME 'thing'. And, wants to PLAY, or BE, A part of that 'thing'.
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:53 am
veg,
You are from the deep south. The bible belt. Do you really think you would have thought this way if you were living in the 1850s?
yep
lots of folks, in 1850, in the deep south bible belt, opposed slavery becuz they recognized and respected a man self-possesses
and today, all over the modern, enlightened, world, there are lots of folks who enslave others: it's an industry
Except that you aren't against slavery for noble reasons. You are only interested in yourself.
Good observation.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:30 pm
Yes, I'm sure there were a few enlightened, compassionate souls in the South, but 'enlightened' is not a word that springs to mind when it comes to you. And the attitude at the time was that black people weren't actually human, therefore having them as slaves was perfectly acceptable.
You would have been whipping those slaves harder than anyone
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:51 pmExcept that you aren't against slavery for noble reasons.
I'm not noble, only consistent.
If it's wrong to enslave a man, it's wrong to enslave any man.
But WHEN did you work out and REALIZE this OBVIOUS Fact?
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:51 pm
bluntly: I don't give two flips about you, veg, but I'd still fight to get you out of slavery (not for your sake, but becuz, as worthless as you are to me, you're a person, and it's wrong you should be treated as property)
WHY would you, supposedly, help "vegetariantaxidermy" to get out of slavery when it is by your very behaviors you are CAUSING and CREATING 'slaves'?
AGAIN, you speak in VERY HYPOCRITICAL and CONTRADICTORY terms.
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:43 pm
read today that...
Microsoft is acquiring Activision, the troubled publisher of Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, and Diablo. The deal will value Activision at $68.7 billion, far in excess of the $26 billion Microsoft paid to acquire LinkedIn in 2016. It’s Microsoft’s biggest push into gaming, and the company says it will be the “third-largest gaming company by revenue, behind Tencent and Sony” once the deal closes.
Microsoft plans to add many of Activision’s games to Xbox Game Pass once the deal closes. With the acquisition of Activision, Microsoft will soon publish franchises like Warcraft, Diablo, Overwatch, Call of Duty, and Candy Crush. ‘Upon close, we will offer as many Activision Blizzard games as we can within Xbox Game Pass and PC Game Pass, both new titles and games from Activision Blizzard’s incredible catalog,” says Microsoft’s CEO of gaming Phil Spencer.’
‘We’re investing deeply in world-class content, community and the cloud to usher in a new era of gaming that puts players and creators first and makes gaming safe, inclusive and accessible to all,’ says Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella.”
How and when did this shift occur?
What 'shift', EXACTLY?
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:43 pm
How does change happen, and why?
'Change' is ALWAYS happening. 'Change' can NOT be stopped. There is 'change' ALWAYS.
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:43 pm
What makes some things change permanently (or seem to) while others only temporarily?
Name one thing that is NOT ALWAYS 'changing' PERMANENTLY.
What is 'freedom' and 'autonomy' is also conditioned upon the point that every individual must align with the same the universal moral law of absolute good. There can be no 'respect' if the other[s] are not in alignment with it.
As I say (to veg, upthread): A person belongs to himself. You belong to you. To enslave you, to view you as, treat you as, property, is to ignore your self-possession. No one -- not you, me, not anyone -- believes it's their lot to be property. It's the single universal feature of all people. Even the slaver won't willingly accept enslavement.
Every person, I think, is aware of natural law/rights: it's a universal feature or intuition. But man is also a free will, not a robot: he can choose, as the slaver does, to ignore the other guy's self-possession. Ain't nuthin' to be done about it except defend against it (and him).
I don't think everyone is aware of the inherent natural human law in its full range, else we would not have that much of evil in the world since history till the present and will continue in the future [if no moral progress is improved].
In the case of slavery, we agree.
However there is a full range of the inherent natural human law [to be self-governed] which I don't think you are aware of.
Will you let us in on what you, perceive, are on the "full range of inherent natural human law"?
If no, then WHY NOT?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:59 am
Another point, even if some people are aware of the inherent natural human laws, they are not in a psychological state to exercise it spontaneously in a self-governed [not coerced from externally] manner.
henry quirk wrote:
I'm not noble, only consistent.
If it's wrong to enslave a man, it's wrong to enslave any man.
With this foreknowledge, why would you impose slavery upon your son by bringing him into existence, already knowing that when one man is enslaved every man is enslaved, wouldn't that be wrong to impose what you already know as wrong onto someone else who had no prior knowledge of wrong?
Once the train is coming down the track, and you know it's coming, there is no end to the line on which the train is coming, but a dead end. Your knowing is a fiction.
But WHEN did you work out and REALIZE this OBVIOUS Fact?
like you, like everyone, I've always known it
BUT EVERY one WANTS and NEEDS so-called 'coghood'.
nope: wanting connection is not the same thing as coghood
So, I or ANY one else can enter "your home", in the middle of the night, and touch "your stuff", and you do NOT BELIEVE you are ALLOWED to BLOW our bodies AWAY, correct?
if you, or anyone, enter my home at 3am, without permission, unannounced: I will assume you're up to no damn good; I'll give you an opportunity to leave as you came; it would be in your best interest to do so
henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:06 pmwhy would you impose slavery upon your son by bringing him into existence, already knowing that when one man is enslaved every man is enslaved
I don't believe that
Why would you bring your son into existence knowing enslavement is wrong.
I don't think everyone is aware of the inherent natural human law in its full range, else we would not have that much of evil in the world since history till the present and will continue in the future
I think everyone intuits it: I think many choose to ignore it
henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:06 pmwhy would you impose slavery upon your son by bringing him into existence, already knowing that when one man is enslaved every man is enslaved
I don't believe that
Why would you bring your son into existence knowing enslavement is wrong.
He, like me, like you, came into the world as a free being; he remains a free being
the possibility of harm, abuse, etc. is no reason to not be
henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:06 pmwhy would you impose slavery upon your son by bringing him into existence, already knowing that when one man is enslaved every man is enslaved
I don't believe that
Why would you bring your son into existence knowing enslavement is wrong.
He, like me, like you, came into the world as a free being; he remains a free being
the possibility of harm, abuse, etc. is no reason to not be
But isn't that taking a risk with someone else's life, just saying there is a possibilty of harm,is probable, but not likely, so I'll take the risk anyway. How do you get to choose whether that risk is worth taking for another person who hasn't any choice about whether they want to take that risk?
The unborn have no reason to be, that reason to be is imposed upon them by those who think there is a reason to be.
Already knowing slavery exists...is that not wrong, or is right to impose your reason to be on someone who has no reason to be.
