What is the point of Higher Education?

[Belinda]

Immanuel Can, my grandson is doing a masters degree in psychology at an English university and his latest essay contains many statistics carefuly selected and applied with logical analysis.

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based. If you know of specific schools or universities that fail in academic rigour you would do honest people a favour by naming and shaming them.

More and more I find that your posts contain too much bluster and insufficient info and experience.
Your posts are useful as Aunt Sallys. You would benefit from admitting when appropriate that you are mistaken and you are still seeking new ideas and information.

[Phil8659]

Immanuel Can, my grandson is doing a masters degree in psychology at an English university and his latest essay contains many statistics carefuly selected and applied with logical analysis.

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based.

More and more I find that your posts contain too much bluster and insufficient info and experience.
Your posts are useful as Aunt Sallys. You would benefit from admitting when appropriate that you are mistaken and you are still seeking new ideas and information.

Nicely said.

[Sculptor]

Immanuel Can, my grandson is doing a masters degree in psychology at an English university and his latest essay contains many statistics carefuly selected and applied with logical analysis.

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based. If you know of specific schools or universities that fail in academic rigour you would do honest people a favour by naming and shaming them.

More and more I find that your posts contain too much bluster and insufficient info and experience.
Your posts are useful as Aunt Sallys. You would benefit from admitting when appropriate that you are mistaken and you are still seeking new ideas and information.

Well said, but I have to doubt whether he is capable of understanding your point. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder. I know that not everyone gets the opportunity to study at a higher level. I , myself, did not have any support from my family so was not until I was 35 that I got a degree. But having waited for so long I had maximum benefit from it and was more easily able to apply some cut and thrust with critical thinking as I studied.
But I know the feeling of resentment that seems to be evidence with IC. It is classic sour grapes.

[Belinda]

Immanuel Can, my grandson is doing a masters degree in psychology at an English university and his latest essay contains many statistics carefuly selected and applied with logical analysis.

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based. If you know of specific schools or universities that fail in academic rigour you would do honest people a favour by naming and shaming them.

More and more I find that your posts contain too much bluster and insufficient info and experience.
Your posts are useful as Aunt Sallys. You would benefit from admitting when appropriate that you are mistaken and you are still seeking new ideas and information.

Well said, but I have to doubt whether he is capable of understanding your point. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder. I know that not everyone gets the opportunity to study at a higher level. I , myself, did not have any support from my family so was not until I was 35 that I got a degree. But having waited for so long I had maximum benefit from it and was more easily able to apply some cut and thrust with critical thinking as I studied.
But I know the feeling of resentment that seems to be evidence with IC. It is classic sour grapes.

That's nice of you. I adopted a bitey middle aged terrier and it was weeks before he really trusted me.

[Sculptor]

Immanuel Can, my grandson is doing a masters degree in psychology at an English university and his latest essay contains many statistics carefuly selected and applied with logical analysis.

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based. If you know of specific schools or universities that fail in academic rigour you would do honest people a favour by naming and shaming them.

More and more I find that your posts contain too much bluster and insufficient info and experience.
Your posts are useful as Aunt Sallys. You would benefit from admitting when appropriate that you are mistaken and you are still seeking new ideas and information.

Well said, but I have to doubt whether he is capable of understanding your point. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder. I know that not everyone gets the opportunity to study at a higher level. I , myself, did not have any support from my family so was not until I was 35 that I got a degree. But having waited for so long I had maximum benefit from it and was more easily able to apply some cut and thrust with critical thinking as I studied.
But I know the feeling of resentment that seems to be evidence with IC. It is classic sour grapes.

That's nice of you. I adopted a bitey middle aged terrier and it was weeks before he really trusted me.

Er... Are you comparing me to a bitey terrier, or is this another misdirected post?

I just adopted an 11year old Retriever as a companion to my 9 year old Labrador.
After 4 weeks he still trying to settle in.

[Immanuel Can]

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based. If you know of specific schools or universities that fail in academic rigour you would do honest people a favour by naming and shaming them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ching.html That's the UK. In the US, a similar thing is going on: the purging of classics, of hard science, of data, and so forth from subjects that used to rely upon them, in favour of "ethnographies" and "lived experience" retellings treated as if they were hard data. It's so universal that to name only one or two universities would be impossible; it would be easier to locate those few who are opting out of the new politically-correct curricula and programming.

Here's a balanced article, one that focuses on the data rather than extrapolation. Make your own conclusions, if you like: https://www.aei.org/articles/are-colleg ... s-climate/

Or take your own local university. And check, and see if they are still using scientific methodology in your own area, history. I'll warrant you they are not.

If they are, they're an exception to the rule.

[Belinda]

Well said, but I have to doubt whether he is capable of understanding your point. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder. I know that not everyone gets the opportunity to study at a higher level. I , myself, did not have any support from my family so was not until I was 35 that I got a degree. But having waited for so long I had maximum benefit from it and was more easily able to apply some cut and thrust with critical thinking as I studied.
But I know the feeling of resentment that seems to be evidence with IC. It is classic sour grapes.

That's nice of you. I adopted a bitey middle aged terrier and it was weeks before he really trusted me.

Er... Are you comparing me to a bitey terrier, or is this another misdirected post?

I just adopted an 11year old Retriever as a companion to my 9 year old Labrador.
After 4 weeks he still trying to settle in.

I imagine a dog equivalent of you would be a pointer.
My terrier is a very sensitive Jack Russell who has several queer hang ups. Is your new dog a golden retriever? I never had one and have only met them on dog walks and they are such beautiful personalities.

[Sculptor]

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based. If you know of specific schools or universities that fail in academic rigour you would do honest people a favour by naming and shaming them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ching.html That's the UK. In the US, a similar thing is going on: the purging of classics, of hard science, of data, and so forth from subjects that used to rely upon them, in favour of "ethnographies" and "lived experience" retellings treated as if they were hard data. It's so universal that to name only one or two universities would be impossible; it would be easier to locate those few who are opting out of the new politically-correct curricula and programming.

Here's a balanced article, one that focuses on the data rather than extrapolation. Make your own conclusions, if you like: https://www.aei.org/articles/are-colleg ... s-climate/

Or take your own local university. And check, and see if they are still using scientific methodology in your own area, history. I'll warrant you they are not.

If they are, they're an exception to the rule.

Scientific method in history?? Are you on drugs?

[Sculptor]

That's nice of you. I adopted a bitey middle aged terrier and it was weeks before he really trusted me.

Er... Are you comparing me to a bitey terrier, or is this another misdirected post?

I just adopted an 11year old Retriever as a companion to my 9 year old Labrador.
After 4 weeks he still trying to settle in.

I imagine a dog equivalent of you would be a pointer.
My terrier is a very sensitive Jack Russell who has several queer hang ups. Is your new dog a golden retriever? I never had one and have only met them on dog walks and they are such beautiful personalities.

Yes Golden Retriever called Rusty, looks exactly like a teddy bear, and as sweet until he eats horseshit, which, with his looks is oddly forgivable.
My champagne Labrador who used to get all the attention from passing dog lovers now takes second place with "Oh isn't he lovely?" comments. She does not mind.
He shakes like a leaf during thunder, hates to be behind a closed doors, and loves to roll on his back as soon as we get to the green, where he goes on strike until he gets a bit of kibble.
He's now known as Rusty Lynch, after the RMY boss, but he's not too smart.
For the first week he lived by the front door as if waiting to return to the rescue centre or hoping to get a glimpse of his previous owner.

[Immanuel Can]

Scientific method in history?? Are you on drugs?

I have no problem believing that it has not occurred to you that history has any systematic methodology, or that it depends on facts, data, logic, reason and so on for its integrity. If your own view of history has absolutely no such things, I will not even be a bit surprised.

But drugs? I'm sure you've got a use for those.

[Belinda]

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based. If you know of specific schools or universities that fail in academic rigour you would do honest people a favour by naming and shaming them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ching.html That's the UK. In the US, a similar thing is going on: the purging of classics, of hard science, of data, and so forth from subjects that used to rely upon them, in favour of "ethnographies" and "lived experience" retellings treated as if they were hard data. It's so universal that to name only one or two universities would be impossible; it would be easier to locate those few who are opting out of the new politically-correct curricula and programming.

Here's a balanced article, one that focuses on the data rather than extrapolation. Make your own conclusions, if you like: https://www.aei.org/articles/are-colleg ... s-climate/

Or take your own local university. And check, and see if they are still using scientific methodology in your own area, history. I'll warrant you they are not.

If they are, they're an exception to the rule.

Regarding your Daily Mail article, Nahim Zahawi is a right wing politician not a professional educationist. The Daily Mail is a popular right wing organ.

There is an argument education can be too liberal. However these days that's far from being the case. Unfortunately for all of us , the education industry, including teachers' salaries, and curriculums, is too much controlled by the regime holding the purse strings.

[Sculptor]

Scientific method in history?? Are you on drugs?

I have no problem believing that it has not occurred to you that history has any systematic methodology, or that it depends on facts, data, logic, reason and so on for its integrity. If your own view of history has absolutely no such things, I will not even be a bit surprised.

But drugs? I'm sure you've got a use for those.

You have clearly not studied history above kindergarten. It's not "science".
If you are interested maybe start with Collingwood.

[Immanuel Can]

My own mainly humanities undergraduate course was history based. This was many years ago, true, however I can't imagine how intellectual attention to the humanities in the modern world, post- enlightenment, would not be history based. If you know of specific schools or universities that fail in academic rigour you would do honest people a favour by naming and shaming them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ching.html That's the UK. In the US, a similar thing is going on: the purging of classics, of hard science, of data, and so forth from subjects that used to rely upon them, in favour of "ethnographies" and "lived experience" retellings treated as if they were hard data. It's so universal that to name only one or two universities would be impossible; it would be easier to locate those few who are opting out of the new politically-correct curricula and programming.

Here's a balanced article, one that focuses on the data rather than extrapolation. Make your own conclusions, if you like: https://www.aei.org/articles/are-colleg ... s-climate/

Or take your own local university. And check, and see if they are still using scientific methodology in your own area, history. I'll warrant you they are not.

If they are, they're an exception to the rule.

Regarding your Daily Mail article, Nahim Zahawi is a right wing politician not a professional educationist.

Ad hominem. That doesn't do one thing to tell us whether in this case, we're getting the truth or a lie. And I can tell you that the perspective is no different from any professional "educationist," as you call them. The facts are the facts, like 'em or not.

So go and check your own university. I'm not even asking you to believe me. Or I can send you a dozen more articles you can cheerfully ignore.

[Immanuel Can]

Scientific method in history?? Are you on drugs?

I have no problem believing that it has not occurred to you that history has any systematic methodology, or that it depends on facts, data, logic, reason and so on for its integrity. If your own view of history has absolutely no such things, I will not even be a bit surprised.

But drugs? I'm sure you've got a use for those.

You have clearly not studied history above kindergarten. It's not "science".
If you are interested maybe start with Collingwood.

To be honest, I'm really totally uninterested in anything you have to say. You've completely shot your credibility completely long ago, by being addicted to ad homs and other such cheap shots instead of having any facts.

And you're still wrong. Sorry.

[Belinda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ching.html That's the UK. In the US, a similar thing is going on: the purging of classics, of hard science, of data, and so forth from subjects that used to rely upon them, in favour of "ethnographies" and "lived experience" retellings treated as if they were hard data. It's so universal that to name only one or two universities would be impossible; it would be easier to locate those few who are opting out of the new politically-correct curricula and programming.

Here's a balanced article, one that focuses on the data rather than extrapolation. Make your own conclusions, if you like: https://www.aei.org/articles/are-colleg ... s-climate/

Or take your own local university. And check, and see if they are still using scientific methodology in your own area, history. I'll warrant you they are not.

If they are, they're an exception to the rule.

Regarding your Daily Mail article, Nahim Zahawi is a right wing politician not a professional educationist.

Ad hominem. That doesn't do one thing to tell us whether in this case, we're getting the truth or a lie. And I can tell you that the perspective is no different from any professional "educationist," as you call them. The facts are the facts, like 'em or not.

So go and check your own university. I'm not even asking you to believe me. Or I can send you a dozen more articles you can cheerfully ignore.

It's not ad hominem . It's about you have not applied due scepticism regarding the objectivity of your source.

Here is a possibly useful story of scepticism with a moral , for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... es_applies

Or as my history professor said "unwitting testimony" is what we want.