What is the point of Higher Education?

[Belinda]

But some higher education involves field work with real living people e.g. social anthropology, and psychology, not to mention the more obvious medicine.

Sure. Even in medicine part and parcel of "higher education" is to work under the supervision of experienced real-world practitioners.

And so it's still a "safe space" in a way because your supervising is your safety net.

As for the humanities, the best poets are those who empathise with real people. My favourite poet, Keats, had been a medical doctor who well knew the pathos of disease,and old age.

I have the utmost respect of those who do academic/humanities pursuits at the end, not at the beginning of their journey.

It's giving back some of the knowledge.

Ultimately, though. We lose so much knowledge when humans who have done a lot pass on.

You are right. Do you advocate changes to school curriculums so that children may learn real life skills from a curriculum that devotes at least as much time to social interactions as to information processing? I may point out that social interactions can be learned vicariously via art forms especially perhaps novels, and a lot of curricular time is devoted to literature. Skepdick, you either a school governor right now or about to become one any time soon .

[Skepdick]

You are right. Do you advocate changes to school curriculums so that children may learn real life skills from a curriculum that devotes at least as much time to social interactions as to information processing? I may point out that social interactions can be learned vicariously via art forms especially perhaps novels, and a lot of curricular time is devoted to literature. Skepdick, you either a school governor right now or about to become one any time soon .

I really don't have good answers. I think both theory and practice are important. I also think practice is ever so slightly importanter. And in a field where one can afford ignoring theory - ignore theory.

But when you give an inch - they take the whole hand (or some such idiom). Practitioners take that as carte blanche to ignore data from sources other than their own experiences. It's super-easy for any society to over-value its theoreticians; or over-value its practitioners.

Perhaps I'll just peddle my own bias. It's 2022. Teach people how to think by teaching them how to program - it's a byccicle for your mind.

On the other hand there is something to be said about synchronicity. Learning about humans from books is not the same thing as learning about humans from humans.

[Belinda]

You are right. Do you advocate changes to school curriculums so that children may learn real life skills from a curriculum that devotes at least as much time to social interactions as to information processing? I may point out that social interactions can be learned vicariously via art forms especially perhaps novels, and a lot of curricular time is devoted to literature. Skepdick, you either a school governor right now or about to become one any time soon .

I really don't have good answers. I think both theory and practice are important. I also think practice is ever so slightly importanter. And in a field where one can afford ignoring theory - ignore theory.

But when you give an inch - they take the whole hand (or some such idiom). Practitioners take that as carte blanche to ignore data from sources other than their own experiences. It's super-easy for any society to over-value its theoreticians; or over-value its practitioners.

Perhaps I'll just peddle my own bias. It's 2022. Teach people how to think by teaching them how to program - it's a byccicle for your mind.

On the other hand there is something to be said about synchronicity. Learning about humans from books is not the same thing as learning about humans from humans.

Learning about humans from books can be better than real face to face or real skin to skin. Learning about human beings from books takes advantage of a better interpreter of relationships than me. Obviously there are truth criteria for "better". There is a qualitative truth difference between D H Lawrence and a commercial pornographer.

We have discussed practice.Practice includes relationships with, on one hand, living creatures and, on the other, relationships with things such as electrical circuits or turbine engines.

[owl of Minerva]

A formal education can lay a foundation but today lifelong learning is necessary. An education should provide a grounding in the classics. In the past, when that was the case, people emerged with a culture, a sense of universal verities, and an erudition that made a contribution to society. A well-furnished mind grounded in the classics is a resource against the slings and arrows of life.

Today the emphasis is often on just money-making, the next startup, how to strike it big. People end up being cyphers. An example is the culture of Silicon Valley, an example of intelligence not being enough. Women have had a difficult time there and many, who hoped for a career in technology have had to flee.

[Sculptor]

I'll take that has never having any higher education and so everything you say about it is basically bollocks, as we all know.

You got that backwards.

If all you have is higher education and you've never actually had any direct contact with reality then everything you say IS bollocks.
You are regurgitating theory devoid of practice.

Because higher education is a safe space from reality.

No it is not. But you would not know that.

People coming from Higher Education and into the real world be like...

The difference between me and you is that I am connected to reality with the added benefit of higher education.
It is not "theory" to be able to note that a complete absence of experience (you) means you cannot speak on that matter.
And you do not even have an excuse because a child can tell you that; no education required.
QED; what you say about higher education is at best wild speculation and is as we have observed, bollocks.

[Sculptor]

A formal education can lay a foundation but today lifelong learning is necessary. An education should provide a grounding in the classics. In the past, when that was the case, people emerged with a culture, a sense of universal verities, and an erudition that made a contribution to society. A well-furnished mind grounded in the classics is a resource against the slings and arrows of life.

Today the emphasis is often on just money-making, the next startup, how to strike it big. People end up being cyphers. An example is the culture of Silicon Valley, an example of intelligence not being enough. Women have had a difficult time there and many, who hoped for a career in technology have had to flee.

There is no instances of people enjoying education but never having the benefit of lifelong learning.

Moreover having the benefit of education means you get much more from lifeling learning because education is more than absorbing, investigation, interpreting, analysing, deducting, inducting, reasearching, it is also learning HOW to learn. ANd that skill will be with you your whole life if you let it.

[Skepdick]

Learning about humans from books can be better than real face to face or real skin to skin. Learning about human beings from books takes advantage of a better interpreter of relationships than me. Obviously there are truth criteria for "better". There is a qualitative truth difference between D H Lawrence and a commercial pornographer.

We have discussed practice.Practice includes relationships with, on one hand, living creatures and, on the other, relationships with things such as electrical circuits or turbine engines.

Learning about humans from books robs you of the opportunity (and information) available in body language, tone, intonation etc.

Books teach you how people think, but now how they behave in practice.

[Skepdick]

No it is not. But you would not know that.

You win the irony high score.

YOU wouldn't know that I wouldn't know that.

Seeming as you don't actually know whether I have any experience with higher education.

The difference between me and you is that I am connected to reality with the added benefit of higher education.

Oh. You are? So what have actually you done. Point me to something you've built/created/engineered.

What have you achieved? Besides higher education.

It is not "theory" to be able to note that a complete absence of experience (you) means you cannot speak on that matter.

But you don't know that I am not speaking from experience.

And you do not even have an excuse because a child can tell you that; no education required.

Is that why you are telling me that? Because you are a child.

QED; what you say about higher education is at best wild speculation and is as we have observed, bollocks.

Shame... that "I speak from experience - therefore I am an expert" bubble of yours got popped rather quickly, eh?

[Sculptor]

No it is not. But you would not know that.

You win the irony high score.

YOU wouldn't know that I wouldn't know that.

Seeming as you don't actually know whether I have any experience with higher education.

I do because everything you have said about it is fake.
Additionally when asked you were unable to furnish details, but rather chose to bullhist about living "reality".

[Skepdick]

I do because everything you have said about it is fake.

I bet they taught you how to distinguish between fake and real words in academia.

Or did they forget to tell you that your brain has no faculties for distinguishing between truth and falsity from language alone? You need contact with the ground.

Additionally when asked you were unable to furnish details, but rather chose to bullhist about living "reality".

Unwilling != unable.

The moment you insist on using academic credentials as an indicator skill/knowledge you are playing a normative social status game - a dick measuring contest.

Knowledge is demonstrative/performative. Shut up about your credentials and show me what you've contributed to the world.

[Sculptor]

I do because everything you have said about it is fake.

I bet they taught you how to distinguish between fake and real words in academia.

You would not know because it is outside your experience.

Or did they forget to tell you that your brain has no faculties for distinguishing between truth and falsity from language alone? You need contact with the ground.

You would not know because it is outside your experience.

Additionally when asked you were unable to furnish details, but rather chose to bullhist about living "reality".

Unwilling != unable.

The moment you insist on using academic credentials as an indicator skill/knowledge you are playing a normative social status game - a dick measuring contest.

You would not know because it is outside your experience.

Knowledge is demonstrative/performative. Shut up about your credentials and show me what you've contributed to the world.

[Skepdick]

You would not know because it is outside your experience.

No, it isn't, but I guess they have to explain things to you more than once in Higher Education?

When you have contact with reality you learn the first time you fuck up.

[Sculptor]

You would not know because it is outside your experience.

No, it isn't, but I guess they have to explain things to you more than once in Higher Education?

When you have contact with reality you learn the first time you fuck up.

Please refer to the posts I made above.

[Skepdick]

You would not know because it is outside your experience.

No, it isn't, but I guess they have to explain things to you more than once in Higher Education?

When you have contact with reality you learn the first time you fuck up.

Please refer to the posts I made above.

that's what they teach in Higher Education it seems

Continuing to insist you are right (in theorry) when it's obvious that you are wrong in practice.

[Belinda]

You would not know because it is outside your experience.

No, it isn't, but I guess they have to explain things to you more than once in Higher Education?

When you have contact with reality you learn the first time you fuck up.

"Fuck up" meaning sorrow, pain, or loss is common to everyone from birth to death. Education in the humanities helps people to find a variety of narratives that explain and so help to map out a way ahead.

Some lucky people are fortunate in having a real life mentor, and religious people have a ready-made Mentor, but for most of us we have recourse to stories from fairy tales to Shakespeare.