What is the Essence of Philosophy?

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attofishpi
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:20 am I note the thinking of many in regard to 'what is philosophy' is too narrow and shallow, given the term 'philosophy' has existed explicitly and implicitly for thousands of years, e.g. > 10,000 years in relation to Vedic philosophy.

The ignoramus jumped in hastily without even defining what they are talking about, i.e. "what is philosophy."

Views?
Seems you should at least attempt to comprehend what is "LOVE of WISDOM".

So.

Define LOVE.

Define WISDOM.
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:51 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:20 am I note the thinking of many in regard to 'what is philosophy' is too narrow and shallow, given the term 'philosophy' has existed explicitly and implicitly for thousands of years, e.g. > 10,000 years in relation to Vedic philosophy.

The ignoramus jumped in hastily without even defining what they are talking about, i.e. "what is philosophy."

Views?
Seems you should at least attempt to comprehend what is "LOVE of WISDOM".

So.

Define LOVE.

Define WISDOM.
Philosophy-proper is more than 'love of wisdom'.
You did not read the OP?
  • To understand what 'philosophy' is about, I have done extensive research into it.
    I have gather and read more than 500 definitions of 'what is philosophy' [from West, East and everywhere] with a wide variety and diversity of meanings [wisdom, blah, blah, blah] attached to it.

    This core essence of philosophy-proper is related to a fundamental overriding human function to promote continual progress for the well being of the individual[s] and that of humanity.
    The basic tool of such a function is 'wisdom' whereby philosophy is commonly defined as the 'love of wisdom' but that is not the only tool philosophy relied upon. Philosophy will rely on whatever tools and resources that are necessary to achieve its purpose, i.e. well-being which is not directly happiness and pleasure.

    Philosophy-proper is a fundamental function within all humans but the problem is, it is not active in the majority of people.
    Thus there is a need to expedite to trigger the philosophical function in the majority in the future. This will depend on those philosophers who has a more active philosophy-function within them.

As such, 'wisdom' a very commonly understood term is merely one element of philosophy-proper.
  • Wisdom, sapience, or sagacity is the ability to contemplate and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense and insight.[1] Wisdom is associated with attributes such as unbiased judgment, compassion, experiential self-knowledge, self-transcendence and non-attachment,[2] and virtues such as ethics and benevolence.[3][4]
Love in this case = Love encompasses a range of strong and positive emotional and mental states.
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henry quirk
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by henry quirk »

VA,

Don't sound rational to me.

I guess not

let me take a gander at what The Big Book Of Deism has to say on the matter (I got my copy right here)

well, shit, VA, all the pages are blank!

guess I'll have to live with the irrationality

-----

skep,

yeah, I get all that...you don't have to repeat it

as I say: The Big Book Of Deism is silent on the matter, which is okay cuz I'm comfortable with the mysterious irrationality of it
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by henry quirk »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:44 am
okeedoke
uwot
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:22 amAll humans are "programmed" with the same basic brain structures and basic functions.
It looks to me as though you are conflating hardware and software.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amThe basic functions are located in certain specific parts of the brain while some are distributed within different parts.
You should look up neuroplasticity.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amDo you deny all humans has the same very fundamental specific physical neural network for the 4Fs, Food, Fight, Flight and Fuck?
It is the "specific physical" bit I think unlikely. The gist of evolution is that there are certain survival and reproductive adaptations that will make an organism, such as a human being, more likely to produce offspring. You insistence that evolution has resulted in every human being having exactly the same critical physical structures and connections embedded in our brains seems implausible. As I said, it would surprise me if the HCP found this is the case. You on the other hand presume it will.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amThere are also many other basic functions that inherent in all humans i.e. as human nature.
There are also inherent basic functions where they are active in some and not active in the majority.
So you are saying that while everyone has the same circuits, not everyone has the same switches. Are there specific environmental switches?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amFor example note the evolution of living things and humans, there is core trend of one-up better than prior in all living things and very evident in humans.
Evolution is not about reaching some intrinsically 'better' organism. Fundamentally, that is what is wrong with Nietzsche's concept of the ubermensch. Should there be, for example, a nuclear war, we will find ourselves poorly adapted to the changing environment whereas cockroaches will fare better.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amThis fundamental one-up impulse [active in some not so in the majority] for the optimal well being of the individual[s], is the fundamental of philosophy-proper.
That is your story.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amSince this very basic function, i.e. the fundamental of philosophy-proper is inherent, [like others of the 4Fs], it would not be a problem for the HCP to trace the core neural networks and its connections to other parts of the brain and functions.
You should tell the HCP not to waste their time, since you already know what they will discover.
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

uwot wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:29 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:22 amAll humans are "programmed" with the same basic brain structures and basic functions.
It looks to me as though you are conflating hardware and software.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amThe basic functions are located in certain specific parts of the brain while some are distributed within different parts.
You should look up neuroplasticity.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amDo you deny all humans has the same very fundamental specific physical neural network for the 4Fs, Food, Fight, Flight and Fuck?
It is the "specific physical" bit I think unlikely. The gist of evolution is that there are certain survival and reproductive adaptations that will make an organism, such as a human being, more likely to produce offspring. You insistence that evolution has resulted in every human being having exactly the same critical physical structures and connections embedded in our brains seems implausible. As I said, it would surprise me if the HCP found this is the case. You on the other hand presume it will.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amThere are also many other basic functions that inherent in all humans i.e. as human nature.
There are also inherent basic functions where they are active in some and not active in the majority.
So you are saying that while everyone has the same circuits, not everyone has the same switches. Are there specific environmental switches?
Note the average human brain has appx 100 billion neurons each with up to 10,000 connectors [synapses]. Just imagine the potential combinations!
I am not saying everyone has the same combination of neural circuits but only they have the same fundamental circuits, e.g. the 4Fs, basic emotions, etc.
E.g. Every human has the same primary emotions [nature] but these are modified by environmental, nurturing and other factors.

Thus every human has the very fundamental circuit pre-programmed "philosophy-circuit" in them which is active in some, less active on the majority.
How this fundamental philosophy-proper impulse is manifested will vary with the nurturing factors.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amFor example note the evolution of living things and humans, there is core trend of one-up better than prior in all living things and very evident in humans.
Evolution is not about reaching some intrinsically 'better' organism. Fundamentally, that is what is wrong with Nietzsche's concept of the ubermensch. Should there be, for example, a nuclear war, we will find ourselves poorly adapted to the changing environment whereas cockroaches will fare better.
The basic rule of evolution is merely adaption to survive till the inevitable but it is empirically evident there is a trend of a one-up positive trend within the species along with the negative as well.
You cannot deny the intelligence quotient of the average human has been on an increasing positive trend since 200,000 years ago.
Do you?
There are so many other aspects that has risen on a increasing positive trend since 200,000 years ago. Of course there are its corresponding negative trends as well.
But so far the trend is net-positive otherwise the human species would have been extinct long ago.
I claim this net increasing positive trend is reducible to the inherent 'philosophy-proper' ['program'] within all humans.

Nah, you are too Hitler obsessed on this point with the ubermensch.
There is nothing wrong with the idea of the ubermensch as long as it is taken as an impossible to achieve ideal but merely to act as a guide or as a lighthouse for human progress driven by the inherent philosophy-proper 'program'.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amThis fundamental one-up impulse [active in some not so in the majority] for the optimal well being of the individual[s], is the fundamental of philosophy-proper.
That is your story.
What is critical is 'my story' [arguments] is supported by evidence and justifications.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:07 amSince this very basic function, i.e. the fundamental of philosophy-proper is inherent, [like others of the 4Fs], it would not be a problem for the HCP to trace the core neural networks and its connections to other parts of the brain and functions.
You should tell the HCP not to waste their time, since you already know what they will discover.
There is a difference between what can be discovered from discovering the real thing with the potential to put it into practice.

Note this;
Meet the Accidental Genius
In 2002, Jason Padgett was the victim of a vicious beating outside a karaoke bar in Tacoma, Washington.
Upon regaining consciousness, Padgett’s sight was forever altered by a condition called acquired savant syndrome.
The brain trauma opened his eyes to an entirely new world—one filled with patterns and strobes, like a stop-motion film. This is a fascinating story into the hidden power of the mind and one man’s inspiring tale of courage and personal triumph. The Acquired Savant is a film by Thomas Petersen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H6doOmS-eM
Surely we would not want to repeat the above by subjecting people to vicious beating with the hope they become a genius.

With the potential of the HCP, we will be able to know precisely the specific neural connectivities that trigger the accidental genius.
So in the future, with the advances of the HCP we can target the specific development of the average person to be a genius [say IQ of 250 relative to the present state 100].
https://international-iq-test.com/en/

If the average IQ in say 2100 is 250 [genius in 2021], the relative genius level would be 350.

What is more important is for humanity to map out the basic philosophy-proper neural circuit and expedite greater activities for the average person. If the average Philosophy-Quotient of the present is say 50, then we can increase it to 150 in the future based on the progress of the HCP.
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amNote the average human brain has appx 100 billion neurons each with up to 10,000 connectors [synapses].
Noted.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amJust imagine the potential combinations!
Cor blimey, guvnor!
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amI am not saying everyone has the same combination of neural circuits but only they have the same fundamental circuits, e.g. the 4Fs, basic emotions, etc.
So in every 100 billion neurons with 10 thousand synapses, there are specific clusters that are identical in every human being? If that is your claim, I seriously doubt it.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amE.g. Every human has the same primary emotions [nature] but these are modified by environmental, nurturing and other factors.
Have you met many humans?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amThus every human has the very fundamental circuit pre-programmed "philosophy-circuit" in them which is active in some, less active on the majority.
At least one of your premises is demonstrably false. Even if it were true that fundamental circuits for the four fs exist, it does not follow that there exists another for philosophy proper, it's just a story you tell yourself, an hypothesis if you prefer.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amYou cannot deny the intelligence quotient of the average human has been on an increasing positive trend since 200,000 years ago.
Do you?
I didn't get the opportunity to talk to anyone 200,000 years ago. If anything it is empirically evident that the trend in intelligence is downward. Surviving in harsh environments takes wit, whereas any fool can sit in front of a computer talking bollocks.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amI claim this net increasing positive trend is reducible to the inherent 'philosophy-proper' ['program'] within all humans.
Well, let's see if the HCP discovers this philosophy proper circuit of yours.
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

uwot wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:12 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amNote the average human brain has appx 100 billion neurons each with up to 10,000 connectors [synapses].
Noted.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amJust imagine the potential combinations!
Cor blimey, guvnor!
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amI am not saying everyone has the same combination of neural circuits but only they have the same fundamental circuits, e.g. the 4Fs, basic emotions, etc.
So in every 100 billion neurons with 10 thousand synapses, there are specific clusters that are identical in every human being? If that is your claim, I seriously doubt it.
The 100 billion neurons with 10 thousand synapses set is a potential where not every possible combinations is connected.
However what is preconnected upon birth are the fundamental specific clusters [circuits] that make humans, a human being, i.e. nature. These fundamental clusters are identical in every normal human being.
Thereafter there are additional connections to the fundamental clusters and new clusters are formed as effected by nurture and the environment.

Point is not every of the neurons and synapses are connected even while one is an adult, thus when there are damage to the brain or atrophy, there is still some room for new connections.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amE.g. Every human has the same primary emotions [nature] but these are modified by environmental, nurturing and other factors.
Have you met many humans?
This is basic to psychology, neuro-psychology and related neuroscience.
Read up on the following;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion#N ... xplanation
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amThus every human has the very fundamental circuit pre-programmed "philosophy-circuit" in them which is active in some, less active on the majority.
At least one of your premises is demonstrably false. Even if it were true that fundamental circuits for the four fs exist, it does not follow that there exists another for philosophy proper, it's just a story you tell yourself, an hypothesis if you prefer.
Yes, it is a hypothesis which for me is with high confidence level given all the surrounding evidences in relation to what is philosophy-proper as defined in the OP.
This hypothesis will be convincingly demonstrated when there is sufficient progress from the HCP.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amYou cannot deny the intelligence quotient of the average human has been on an increasing positive trend since 200,000 years ago.
Do you?
I didn't get the opportunity to talk to anyone 200,000 years ago. If anything it is empirically evident that the trend in intelligence is downward. Surviving in harsh environments takes wit, whereas any fool can sit in front of a computer talking bollocks.
Hey! you are ignorant on this subject.

If you are using 'intelligence' in that context, note Gardner's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of ... elligences

From that multiple intelligence set, I was referring to IQ [intellectual, linguistic, mathematics and logic,] not surviving-in-harsh environment 'intelligence'.

Even in terms of harsh environment I believe at present we are doing much more effective than our ancestors 200,000 to 10,000 years ago where [with higher IQ] we could survive space, the deep oceans, the harshest deserts and other harsh locations.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 amI claim this net increasing positive trend is reducible to the inherent 'philosophy-proper' ['program'] within all humans.
Well, let's see if the HCP discovers this philosophy proper circuit of yours.
With the progress of the HCP we will be able to discover [via details explorations] the philosophy-proper [as defined] in time.

Btw, even without the HCP we have already been able to trace the spread of neural clusters to specific human activities via fMRI but the results are crude. The HCP will enable scientists to zoom into the detailed connections of the specific neurons.

Example:
A new MIT study of the neural circuits that underlie this process reveals, for the first time, that memories are actually formed simultaneously in the hippocampus and the long-term storage location in the brain’s cortex. However, the long-term memories remain “silent” for about two weeks before reaching a mature state.
https://news.mit.edu/2017/neuroscientis ... ation-0406
Simply tracing it to the hippocampus and cortex is not detailed enough. Analogically [location wise] it is like say it is traceable to the USA and UK, without knowing the exact location down to the respective GPS location.
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by Jori »

For the sake pf comparison, the essence of religion is faith. The essence of science is careful investigation by observation, measurement, experimentation, surveys, examination of records. The essence of philosophy is logical reasoning and critical thinking. The process and the product though may be right or wrong.
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by RCSaunders »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 am The basic rule of evolution is merely adaption to survive till the inevitable ...
Really!? Who wrote that rule and who enforces it? Since when is evolution teleological?
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by RCSaunders »

Jori wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:28 am For the sake pf comparison, the essence of religion is faith. The essence of science is careful investigation by observation, measurement, experimentation, surveys, examination of records. The essence of philosophy is logical reasoning and critical thinking. The process and the product though may be right or wrong.
It does not matter what the field is science or philosophy, there is only one method to knowledge: the rational identification of what exists based on evidence available to anyone's consciousness. Reason not based on evidence is idealism. Conclusions based only on experience without reason are superstition.

There are no different means to knowledge. Reason and evidence are the only means. Any so-called knowledge based on anything else is some form of superstition or simply false.
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:27 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:58 am The basic rule of evolution is merely adaption to survive till the inevitable ...
Really!? Who wrote that rule and who enforces it? Since when is evolution teleological?
You seem to be ignorant 'what is adaption' in evolutionary term.
In the context I presented, that is a principle of evolution not some teleological end-results of evolution.
In biology, adaptation has three related meanings.
Firstly, it is the dynamic evolutionary process that fits organisms to their environment, enhancing their evolutionary fitness.
Secondly, it is a state reached by the population during that process.
Thirdly, it is a phenotypic trait or adaptive trait, with a functional role in each individual organism, that is maintained and has evolved through natural selection.
Even re the second, the state is not an end but a continual state.
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Re: What is the Essence of Philosophy?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Jori wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:28 am For the sake pf comparison, the essence of religion is faith. The essence of science is careful investigation by observation, measurement, experimentation, surveys, examination of records. The essence of philosophy is logical reasoning and critical thinking. The process and the product though may be right or wrong.
Logical reasoning and critical thinking are merely tools [among others] used within philosophy to serve its essence as I had defined in the OP, i.e.
  • This core essence of philosophy-proper is related to a fundamental overriding human function to promote continual progress for the well being of the individual[s] and that of humanity.
Do you dispute my point?
If so, why?
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