I do not deny that humans have evolved, or devolved in the descent into The Dark Ages and evolved again, in the ascent out of them due to the Precession of the Equinoxes. Science as I said, and you agree, will not be foolproof. If expeditious that would imply insufficient care. It would be trial and error and luckily voluntary as it would not do for the entire human race to take part in an experiment. There should be some left with mind, intelligence, cognition and free will to can carry on to the end of human evolution.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:27 amScience is reductive in general.owl of Minerva wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:53 pm We do need to guard against scientism, especially its reductiveness.
There are no foolproof methods in science, it is like all else, subject to the dualities of a dual system. Anything science enables will have both good and bad outcomes. That is the way it is for everything in a dual system, science is not exempt.
The Problem is with the "ism" scientism and reductivism.
You can't deny humans has evolved mentally in a positive manner for its well being since 200,000 years ago, e.g. wisdom, intelligence, emotional intelligence, impulse control, etc. The HCP will facilitate the various mental capabilities expeditiously.Becoming adapted to cold is a good thing, it is very different from interfering with brain processing, especially when brain processing is equated with mind: “you are your processing.” Although not true, such interference would be striking at the heart of human autonomy because interfering with processing would be interfering with agency.
NOTE: whatever the progress it must be voluntarily & fool proof. You seem to have missed out on this critical provision which I mentioned many times.
As I highlighted, it must be fool proof and voluntarily, i.e. with autonomy and freewill [not absolute].Alleviating human suffering would be different, if a person has a disease repairing the disfunction would be acceptable. That would enable agency not thwart it. It would be better to get at the source, eliminating the need for medications. Anything that helps physical or mental life to function with greater autonomy is good. Autonomy is key, lack of autonomy is bad. Communism appealed to some who did not see its flaws. Some older Russians felt nostalgic for the Stalin years, the lack of choice and anomalies was comforting, even though Stalin was a murderous monster.
Intelligence and sense of self is an evolving emergent related to mental activities [supported by the relevant physical neurons]. Re evolution, Human intelligence follow up from animals. Note some of the higher animals has a sense of self, e.g. apes, elephants, etc. Given another 100,000 years it is possible they could develop a sense of self like humans.That forms of life prior to humans did not have a sense of self is due to the fact that intelligence did not emerge until humans. In nature there is no similar spinal-cerebral axis in place for the expression of intelligence. Sensation emerged with animals, intelligence with man. We could consider what polarized electromagnetism, what enabled it to become a field, a vacuum, which in turn enabled the polarization of the strong and weak forces, modified by the neutral force. Emergent rightly means was unsheathed from, in this case from mass plus forces, not emerged as a creation of, without being innate from the beginning going back to the polarization of the electromagnetic field.
Precession of the Equinoxes is a very ancient perception often expressed as ‘as above so below.’ This is a perspective that has been lost which is why many are baffled by climate change and other issues that extends our environment beyond a humanistic, egocentric perspective.
The tilting of the equinoxes will definitely effect human nature but it is a matter of periods in terms of millions of years. So its impact is not as critical as what the HCP can do in a few generations to human change and human attitude to climate change.
btw, there is no "quanta-in-itself."The reason I brought the broken lamp up and its lack of ability to emit light was in response to your comment that without proper brain functioning there is no self. A damaged brain cannot express a self. Light is no thing, however it, unlike the brain or a lamp, functions with form and has been functioning since the beginning of time as packages of energy quanta. Artificial light was created by humans. Your “there is no independent light in itself’ is not the case, except in the aforementioned context.
I don't think there is a difference between natural and artificial light. Light will manifest in various media and degrees, regardless there is no light-in-itself.
The HCP does not establish but will uncover the detailed inherent moral algorithm which is dormant in the majority at present. This will enable humanity to expedite the increase in the average moral competency towards its moral norms and objectives naturally and spontaneously.So the HPC will “establish the neural networks of the inherent moral functions.” It will be very smart of the HPC to know what they are and reach a standard that is in sync with time, place, and circumstances over generations. Who would decide what the inherent moral functions are and in what circumstances, or even if in all circumstances, they are applicable. We are in a dual system, everything is relative, there are no absolutes. From my perspective moral codes are not cast in bronze. They are fluid, time and circumstance sensitive, and subject to human conscience and discrimination, soul searching, not neural processing which is mindlessness; not mind, or conscience, or intelligence, just a process.
HPC from the way you describe it, what it will achieve, appears to me as a communism not of society but of individual minds. This topic’s subject; the question to be answered is clear. Until we absolutely know the nature of reality different perspectives are good. Communism of the mind prior to knowing the nature of reality would be another ism that could turn into a nightmare. An interesting topic for a Science Fiction novel on a dark winter’s night, but not something we would ever want to experience in real time.
It is not the HCP itself but rather that its findings will facilitate the development of various faculties of cognition to understand the what and why of moral norms.
I have countered and raise a few OPs to argue why there are secular objective moral facts [not theistic ones].
I note you have a very narrow view and pessimistic of the HCP and its potentials.
Mastering the HCP is like understanding how bacteria and viruses cause diseases in detail or understanding how QM works, thus reaping the + potentials and avoiding the negatives.
Obviously like any knowledge there are pros and cons.
I am optimistic the pros will outweigh the cons.
Are you implying humanity should abandon the HCP NOW if say you are given the choice? so that we stay in the dark on understanding how the brain works in its complexity?
The trans human is viewed very differently in religion than it is in science. In science it is a getting beyond substance, which it sees as the origin of everything, by imitation or manipulation. Transubstantiation in religion, leading to transfiguration is a very different thing; substance is transformed. With science substance is imitated. The imitation in science is thought of as surpassing the original and you appear to agree with this view.
Animals will never develop into human forms, or express intelligence to full capacity, or have self-consciousness or a sense of self. They will continue to express according to their forms which have reached their apex. In the same way a 25 watt bulb cannot enable the same amount of light as a 1,000 watt bulb. Humans in contrast have the choice to develop until they correspond to reality.
In East and West the duration of the Precession of the Equinoxes is pretty close in calculation. The more accurate duration is 24,000 years. Twelve thousand for the upward arc, going anti clockwise, and twelve thousand for the downward arc. The West sees the same duration for each era within the arcs. The East sees variations in the lengths of each individual era within the arcs.
A physicist would not agree with you “that there is no light in itself.’ Light photons exist and although light or energy do not have mass they do exist, although not as things; they enable mass.
Algorithms are set rules to be followed, they apply to determinism and the laws of nature. Mankind is both in nature, physically, and outside it cognitively and intellectually. A brain science that does not see, or acknowledge this, is unlikely to solve and find final solutions for moral issues. Unless it wants mankind to be totally a part of nature, deterministic following natures laws as animals and all else in nature does. If that is the case there is no purpose to being human other than to correspond to nature by fiat, to be deterministic. As mind, intelligence, is perceived in this view as created by nature so free will might as well be embedded as well; not operative.
I am not for abandoning any scientific endeavor or research into how the physical brain works. It could help in solving many physical anomalies, where the light of intelligence and cognition are stymied in expression. I know you do not see any difference between the natural and the artificial, as in the case of light. The natural is organic, has life, the artificial is an imitation of life. Science can only imitate life. If they could create an organic blade of grass I would have belief in their efficacy. Their research is important but I would not equate the artificial with the real. At this stage in the evolution of knowledge to trust that science, by changing processing, can change human nature for the better is naive. That is done by understanding, will power and choice; individually and collectively.
Science tampering with brain processing may imbed some in nature as the wizard who had a conflict with Merlin cast a spell on him and banished him into the earth.