Continuous motion possible or impossible

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bahman
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:53 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:23 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:30 am
If there is any space between immediate points in a so-called continuous entity, it is not continuous and bears no relevance to the possibility or the impossibility of continuous motion.

But if there is no space between immediate points in a continuous entity, it is truly continuous but there is no room for discreteness between the continuous points and accordingly no possibility of discreteness anywhere in a continuous motion.

Continuous motion is possible. Discrete motion is impossible.

QED
Continuous motion as I explained requires that a moving object exists and exists not at now! This is impossible.
Even if an object in motion exists now but not at then, the process of changing from an object to its replacement is a smooth process. At no point between now and then is there anything other than the object or its replacement. Since motion is change and change is continuous, motion is continuous. QED.

Please say something substantive in replying, rather than repeating the same claim you have already made. Please don’t say that motion is discrete—we’ve all heard you say that. Please don’t deny that you’ve been presented with counter arguments when nearly everything written in reply to your same old refrain is an argument opposing your hackneyed phraseology.

I thank you in advance for your cogent response in advancing this discussion.
Please read two posts before.
commonsense
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:23 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:30 am
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:53 am
There is a space between two immediate points in the continuous limit (what calculus is based on) but there is not in the continuous regime. This however leads to another problem, the number of immediate points is unbound in the continuous regime!
If there is any space between immediate points in a so-called continuous entity, it is not continuous and bears no relevance to the possibility or the impossibility of continuous motion.

But if there is no space between immediate points in a continuous entity, it is truly continuous but there is no room for discreteness between the continuous points and accordingly no possibility of discreteness anywhere in a continuous motion.

Continuous motion is possible. Discrete motion is impossible.

QED
Continuous motion as I explained requires that a moving object exists and exists not at now! This is impossible.
You have stated this impossibility over and over again.
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Sculptor
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:11 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:57 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:02 pm
So now does not exist?
Yes.
"Now" has no value. It is everything and nothing we are all travelling into the future, whilst remaining in the present. We take "now" with us, but as soon as it is mentioned - it is passed.

No points in time exist. They are only references.
But if now or any other point in time does not exist then we have two separate segments of time.
No.
You have have segments of time IF and when you assign points.
Time is a continuum. You can travel forwards with it, there is no going back.
Last edited by Sculptor on Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bahman
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:13 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:23 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:30 am
If there is any space between immediate points in a so-called continuous entity, it is not continuous and bears no relevance to the possibility or the impossibility of continuous motion.

But if there is no space between immediate points in a continuous entity, it is truly continuous but there is no room for discreteness between the continuous points and accordingly no possibility of discreteness anywhere in a continuous motion.

Continuous motion is possible. Discrete motion is impossible.

QED
Continuous motion as I explained requires that a moving object exists and exists not at now! This is impossible.
You have stated this impossibility over and over again.
You are replying to the same post. I already gave the detailed answer to it in another post.
commonsense
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:08 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:37 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:23 pm
Continuous motion as I explained requires that a moving object exists and exists not at now! This is impossible.
Are you saying my 2 paragraphs above are lies?
There is no space between immediate points in a continuous entity. That is true but that is not the whole story. The point is that to have a motion along a continuous curve, the object must not exist at one point and exist at the immediate point. But there is a contradiction here since there is no space between two immediate points which means that the object must exist and exist not at now.
The change from one point to another is a continuous motion. Continuous motion can exist.
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bahman
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:13 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:11 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:57 pm
Yes.
"Now" has no value. It is everything and nothing we are all travelling into the future, whilst remaining in the present. We take "now" with us, but as soon as it is mentioned - it is passed.

No points in time exist. They are only references.
But if now or any other point in time does not exist then we have two separate segments of time.
No.
You have have segments of time IF and when you asign points.
Time is a continuum. You can travel forwards with it, there is no going back.
Let's discuss a curve since time only exists at now.
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bahman
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:17 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:08 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:37 pm

Are you saying my 2 paragraphs above are lies?
There is no space between immediate points in a continuous entity. That is true but that is not the whole story. The point is that to have a motion along a continuous curve, the object must not exist at one point and exist at the immediate point. But there is a contradiction here since there is no space between two immediate points which means that the object must exist and exist not at now.
The change from one point to another is a continuous motion. Continuous motion can exist.
Are these points that you are referring are immediate points? If yes, they both exist at now.
commonsense
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:19 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:17 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:08 pm
There is no space between immediate points in a continuous entity. That is true but that is not the whole story. The point is that to have a motion along a continuous curve, the object must not exist at one point and exist at the immediate point. But there is a contradiction here since there is no space between two immediate points which means that the object must exist and exist not at now.
The change from one point to another is a continuous motion. Continuous motion can exist.
Are these points that you are referring are immediate points? If yes, they both exist at now.
Actually, one exists (at) now and one exists immediately AFTER now.
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bahman
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:22 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:19 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:17 pm

The change from one point to another is a continuous motion. Continuous motion can exist.
Are these points that you are referring are immediate points? If yes, they both exist at now.
Actually, one exists (at) now and one exists immediately AFTER now.
Well, if time changes while an object move along two immediate points then there is no motion since the space between two immediate points is zero.
commonsense
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:30 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:22 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:19 pm
Are these points that you are referring are immediate points? If yes, they both exist at now.
Actually, one exists (at) now and one exists immediately AFTER now.
Well, if time changes while an object move along two immediate points then there is no motion since the space between two immediate points is zero.
If the space between two immediate points is zero, then they are one point.
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bahman
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:16 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:30 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:22 pm

Actually, one exists (at) now and one exists immediately AFTER now.
Well, if time changes while an object move along two immediate points then there is no motion since the space between two immediate points is zero.
If the space between two immediate points is zero, then they are one point.
There are two options: 1) The space between two immediate points is not zero and 2) Otherwise. The motion is discrete in the first case and continuous in the second case since there is no other option left.
commonsense
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:16 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:30 pm
Well, if time changes while an object move along two immediate points then there is no motion since the space between two immediate points is zero.
If the space between two immediate points is zero, then they are one point.
There are two options: 1) The space between two immediate points is not zero and 2) Otherwise. The motion is discrete in the first case and continuous in the second case since there is no other option left.
Yea! We are saying that discreteness and continuity are both possible in different cases!
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bahman
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by bahman »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:45 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:16 pm

If the space between two immediate points is zero, then they are one point.
There are two options: 1) The space between two immediate points is not zero and 2) Otherwise. The motion is discrete in the first case and continuous in the second case since there is no other option left.
Yea! We are saying that discreteness and continuity are both possible in different cases!
But there is a problem in the second case. The moving object ceases to exist at one point and begins to exist at the immediate point at now. This means that the object exists and exists not at the same position at now. This problem is due to the fact that the number of immediate points is unbound, even bigger than infinity. There is no problem in the first case.
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by commonsense »

bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:35 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:45 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm
There are two options: 1) The space between two immediate points is not zero and 2) Otherwise. The motion is discrete in the first case and continuous in the second case since there is no other option left.
Yea! We are saying that discreteness and continuity are both possible in different cases!
But there is a problem in the second case. The moving object ceases to exist at one point and begins to exist at the immediate point at now. This means that the object exists and exists not at the same position at now. This problem is due to the fact that the number of immediate points is unbound, even bigger than infinity. There is no problem in the first case.
Oh noooooooooooo, bahman. Just when you seemed to make sense!
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Sculptor
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Re: Continuous motion possible or impossible

Post by Sculptor »

commonsense wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:42 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:35 pm But there is a problem in the second case. The moving object ceases to exist at one point and begins to exist at the immediate point at now. This means that the object exists and exists not at the same position at now. This problem is due to the fact that the number of immediate points is unbound, even bigger than infinity. There is no problem in the first case.
Oh noooooooooooo, bahman. Just when you seemed to make sense!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RApvaQ0uGTw
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