Why is there something instead of nothing?

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Is this a question or a statement?
Age
Posts: 20194
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:19 am
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
An empty universe, a universe with only a single electron, etc.
Okay, but there exists NOW the 'state of affair' of 'things existing', and because that 'state of affair' exists NOW, there is NO chance of ANY other possibility, EVER.
That is not the point whether what is the state of affair now and afterward. The point is what could be the state of affair.
If you EVER would like to delve into this FURTHER and DISCUSS this 'point', then I can PROVE to ANY one that because of the way thee One and ONLY Universe is RIGHT NOW, at ANY given point or moment, then this means that thee One and ONLY Universe could NOT be any different. Which also means the 'state of affair' could NOT be ANY thing ELSE.

But if you NEVER want to delve into this topic of discussion here, and just REMAIN with YOUR BELIEF ALONE, then PLEASE feel FREE TO. By you doing so is only PROVING another 'point' that I am more than happy to discuss over, AS WELL. The CHOICE is YOURS.

Oh, and by the way, considering the Fact that you are completely UNABLE to counter my CLAIM nor PROVE your BELIEF here, then if 'I' was 'you', then I would use that as a HINT and a GREAT LESSON to REMOVE the BELIEF and START becoming MORE OPEN to LISTENING and LEARNING MORE.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
The actual state of affair is something that exists.
And what IS the some thing that exists NOW?
Whatever that exists now.
AND, it is BECAUSE OF what exists NOW there is NO possible way that there could be ANOTHER 'state of affairs'. As I can VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY PROVE IRREFUTABLY True.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm The possible state of affair is a hypothetical one, something that could exist, it doesn't exist now but there is no reason against its existence.
LOL
LOL
LOL

But there only needs to be One thing against "possible state of affairs" to SEE and UNDERSTAND how they REALLY are NOT 'possibilities' AT ALL.

Just because you can IMAGINE different things this does NOT mean they can ACTUALLY exist at all. You have to be able to PROVE how they could possibly exist BEFORE they could ACTUALLY exist. And, if one EVER delves into this deep enough or far enough, then what is CLEARLY SEEN and FULLY UNDERSTOOD is that NONE of the other so-called "possibilities" could ACTUALLY exist.

And, if ANY one is INTERESTED enough to delve into this Fact, then I am more than happy to discuss this with them.
Did you read what I wrote?
This all depends on what you are referring to, EXACTLY.

Also, and by the way, AGAIN, just because you BELIEVE some thing is true, and then write this BELIEF down, this does NOT, and I will repeat DOES NOT, necessarily make 'it' true AT ALL.

Did you read this AND comprehend this?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Do you have any reason against the possible world? If yes what it is?
What it is IS; BECAUSE of what thee One and ONLY Universe is ESSENTIALLY and FUNDAMENTALLY made up of, and BECAUSE of how thee One and ONLY Universe ACTUALLY WORKS, this is WHY there could NEVER be ANY other possible 'world', NOR "state of affairs", as you say.

Once you learn and understand what thee One and ONLY Universe is made up and how It ACTUALLY WORKS, then you will also learn and understand the REASON AGAINST your 'possible world' theory or BELIEF.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
The actual state of affair like you who are reading my response now. Anything that is real.
Again, you are NOT understanding me here.
What do you want?
For 'you', adult human beings, to firstly;
Become Truly responsible for your Wrong and ABUSIVE behaviors towards children, and then the 'world', by just being Truly Honest and OPEN by admitting the Wrong and ABUSE that you ALL do.
Secondly; Take responsibility by just seriously Wanting to CHANGE, for the better, for children's sake and doing this by doing EVERY thing you can to ACTUALLY CHANGE, for the better, for them.
Thirdly, STOP making ASSUMPTIONS and holding BELIEFS.

What do you want?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
This we have been through it several times. Regress in time is not acceptable, therefore there was a beginning.
LOL
LOL
LOL

We have NOT YET 'been through' this EVER. What has occurred, and continues to occur, is that you BELIEVE some thing is true, which means you are NOT OPEN to ANY thing else contrary.

Also, and by the way, because of what 'time' ACTUALLY IS, 'regress' is NOT even an issue AT ALL. But you will NEVER learn and understand this Fact, while you retain this BELIEF of yours here.
I cannot be open to absurdity.
But by holding BELIEFS, and thus NOT being OPEN, is ABSURDITY, itself, to the highest degree.

Also, INSTEAD of just saying, "I cannot be open to absurdity", how about you EXPLAIN what, EXACTLY, is absurd, to you, and then EXPLAIN how and why 'it' is absurd to you, then we will KNOW, for sure, what you are actually thinking about here.

Also, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of what happens and occurs when one has and holds BELIEFS. That is; they are just NOT OPEN to ANY thing contrary to their BELIEF, even if the contrary is what IS ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
We cannot reach from infinite past to now if there was no beginning for time.
This is just what you BELIEVE is true. It is NOT necessarily what is ACTUALLY True.

And, what IS ACTUALLY True, which by the way is NOT what you BELIEVE here, can be PROVED, IRREFUTABLY True.
You don't understand what infinity means.
LOL

Your BELIEFS are STRIKINGLY CLEAR TO SEE HERE.

Now, YOUR CLAIM here is that I do NOT understand what 'infinity' means, but just be forewarned that what you think or BELIEVE is true is NOT necessarily true AT ALL. Just maybe I understand 'infinity', in relation to thee Universe, Itself, better or more than you do. We will just have to WAIT and SEE.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Otherwise, you won't believe that it is possible to reach from infinite past to now.
ONCE AGAIN, for the countless time, I neither BELIEVE nor DISBELIEVE ANY thing, including what YOU CLAIM here.

The ACTUAL WAY, "to reach from infinite past to now", is within the ACTUAL WORDS you just used here.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Infinity by definition is unreachable opposite to finite.
LOL
LOL
LOL

Is this the One and ONLY definition, which EVERY one HAS TO agree with AND accept?

Also, just because you can NOT reach some thing through thinking or UNDERSTANDING, does NOT mean that I am also UNABLE TO.

Once you learn and understand just what thee Universe ACTUALLY IS and how It ACTUALLY WORKS, then 'infinity', in relation to thee Universe, Itself, and NOW, is REACHED through thinking AND in understanding.

Also, just because some thing is finite does NOT mean that you can reach it. For example, can you reach the beginning of the finite earth?

If yes, then how, EXACTLY?

Or, can you even reach the beginning of the finite 'you'?

If yes, then how, EXACTLY?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm We live now, therefore there was a beginning.
LOL
LOL
LOL

So, I ask you, 'Do you have ANY idea of how there could even be an "initial point", and your response is because "We (whoever or whatever that refers to) live now.

Are you now able to inform us of HOW and WHY it, supposedly, "logically follows" that if we live now, then there MUST BE 'a beginning'?

Also, and by the way, OF COURSE there is 'a beginning', BUT what this ACTUALLY MEANS and refers to is NOTHING like what just about ALL of 'you', adult human beings, envision or think of, in the days when this was being written.
You need to read the previous statement to see that the current statement would make sense to you.
Here we have just MORE ATTEMPTS at DEFLECTION, and NO attempts at answering the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed to these people who BELIEVE the CLAIMS they make.

The reason WHY these people do NOT even attempt to answer the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS I pose to them is because if they did, Honestly, then they would CONTRADICT what they have previously stated and/or PROVE what they have previously stated is Wrong, False, or Incorrect.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:15 pm Is this a question or a statement?
And old question.
Age
Posts: 20194
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:06 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:24 am
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
LOL So, you AGREE that there is not something but you are arguing, with someone or with "yourself", about why there is something at all.

Are you AWARE of just HOW MANY TIMES you CONTRADICT "yourself", "bahman"?
Do you understand what transition means? It means that you go from one state to another one. So you cannot have both at the same time and you cannot have one at any time.
Will you provide examples of 'one state' and 'another state'?

If no, then WHY NOT?

And, WHY can you CLAIM that you can NOT have 'one state' at ANY time?

Also, WHY do you agree that there is NOT some thing, but ask the question, 'Why is there some thing, at all?'

Can you SEE the CONTRADICTION here?

If no, then just let us KNOW, and we might be able to help you SEE IT.
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 13983
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:25 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:15 pm Is this a question or a statement?
And old question.
FFS. Edit your crap, for pity's sake.
Age
Posts: 20194
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:13 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
The "something" only exists intellectually.
But what is the "something", which supposedly exists only intellectually?

And, what does the only exists intellectually "something" ACTUALLY exist within?
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:22 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:19 am

Okay, but there exists NOW the 'state of affair' of 'things existing', and because that 'state of affair' exists NOW, there is NO chance of ANY other possibility, EVER.
That is not the point whether what is the state of affair now and afterward. The point is what could be the state of affair.
If you EVER would like to delve into this FURTHER and DISCUSS this 'point', then I can PROVE to ANY one that because of the way thee One and ONLY Universe is RIGHT NOW, at ANY given point or moment, then this means that thee One and ONLY Universe could NOT be any different. Which also means the 'state of affair' could NOT be ANY thing ELSE.

But if you NEVER want to delve into this topic of discussion here, and just REMAIN with YOUR BELIEF ALONE, then PLEASE feel FREE TO. By you doing so is only PROVING another 'point' that I am more than happy to discuss over, AS WELL. The CHOICE is YOURS.

Oh, and by the way, considering the Fact that you are completely UNABLE to counter my CLAIM nor PROVE your BELIEF here, then if 'I' was 'you', then I would use that as a HINT and a GREAT LESSON to REMOVE the BELIEF and START becoming MORE OPEN to LISTENING and LEARNING MORE.
You still don't understand the difference between actual and possible.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
And what IS the some thing that exists NOW?
Whatever that exists now.
AND, it is BECAUSE OF what exists NOW there is NO possible way that there could be ANOTHER 'state of affairs'. As I can VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY PROVE IRREFUTABLY True.
No. You are wrong.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm

LOL
LOL
LOL

But there only needs to be One thing against "possible state of affairs" to SEE and UNDERSTAND how they REALLY are NOT 'possibilities' AT ALL.

Just because you can IMAGINE different things this does NOT mean they can ACTUALLY exist at all. You have to be able to PROVE how they could possibly exist BEFORE they could ACTUALLY exist. And, if one EVER delves into this deep enough or far enough, then what is CLEARLY SEEN and FULLY UNDERSTOOD is that NONE of the other so-called "possibilities" could ACTUALLY exist.

And, if ANY one is INTERESTED enough to delve into this Fact, then I am more than happy to discuss this with them.
Did you read what I wrote?
This all depends on what you are referring to, EXACTLY.

Also, and by the way, AGAIN, just because you BELIEVE some thing is true, and then write this BELIEF down, this does NOT, and I will repeat DOES NOT, necessarily make 'it' true AT ALL.

Did you read this AND comprehend this?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Do you have any reason against the possible world? If yes what it is?
What it is IS; BECAUSE of what thee One and ONLY Universe is ESSENTIALLY and FUNDAMENTALLY made up of, and BECAUSE of how thee One and ONLY Universe ACTUALLY WORKS, this is WHY there could NEVER be ANY other possible 'world', NOR "state of affairs", as you say.

Once you learn and understand what thee One and ONLY Universe is made up and how It ACTUALLY WORKS, then you will also learn and understand the REASON AGAINST your 'possible world' theory or BELIEF.
Do you understand the difference between actual and possible?
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
Again, you are NOT understanding me here.
What do you want?
For 'you', adult human beings, to firstly;
Become Truly responsible for your Wrong and ABUSIVE behaviors towards children, and then the 'world', by just being Truly Honest and OPEN by admitting the Wrong and ABUSE that you ALL do.
Secondly; Take responsibility by just seriously Wanting to CHANGE, for the better, for children's sake and doing this by doing EVERY thing you can to ACTUALLY CHANGE, for the better, for them.
Thirdly, STOP making ASSUMPTIONS and holding BELIEFS.

What do you want?
What are you talking about?
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm LOL
LOL
LOL

We have NOT YET 'been through' this EVER. What has occurred, and continues to occur, is that you BELIEVE some thing is true, which means you are NOT OPEN to ANY thing else contrary.

Also, and by the way, because of what 'time' ACTUALLY IS, 'regress' is NOT even an issue AT ALL. But you will NEVER learn and understand this Fact, while you retain this BELIEF of yours here.
I cannot be open to absurdity.
But by holding BELIEFS, and thus NOT being OPEN, is ABSURDITY, itself, to the highest degree.

Also, INSTEAD of just saying, "I cannot be open to absurdity", how about you EXPLAIN what, EXACTLY, is absurd, to you, and then EXPLAIN how and why 'it' is absurd to you, then we will KNOW, for sure, what you are actually thinking about here.

Also, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of what happens and occurs when one has and holds BELIEFS. That is; they are just NOT OPEN to ANY thing contrary to their BELIEF, even if the contrary is what IS ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True.
You don't understand my argument as usual. That is all.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm This is just what you BELIEVE is true. It is NOT necessarily what is ACTUALLY True.

And, what IS ACTUALLY True, which by the way is NOT what you BELIEVE here, can be PROVED, IRREFUTABLY True.
You don't understand what infinity means.
LOL

Your BELIEFS are STRIKINGLY CLEAR TO SEE HERE.

Now, YOUR CLAIM here is that I do NOT understand what 'infinity' means, but just be forewarned that what you think or BELIEVE is true is NOT necessarily true AT ALL. Just maybe I understand 'infinity', in relation to thee Universe, Itself, better or more than you do. We will just have to WAIT and SEE.
Tell me what does infinity means? Then tell me how we could reach from infinite past to now.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Otherwise, you won't believe that it is possible to reach from infinite past to now.
ONCE AGAIN, for the countless time, I neither BELIEVE nor DISBELIEVE ANY thing, including what YOU CLAIM here.

The ACTUAL WAY, "to reach from infinite past to now", is within the ACTUAL WORDS you just used here.
Do you understand the difference between finite and infinite? What is the difference?
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Infinity by definition is unreachable opposite to finite.
LOL
LOL
LOL

Is this the One and ONLY definition, which EVERY one HAS TO agree with AND accept?

Also, just because you can NOT reach some thing through thinking or UNDERSTANDING, does NOT mean that I am also UNABLE TO.

Once you learn and understand just what thee Universe ACTUALLY IS and how It ACTUALLY WORKS, then 'infinity', in relation to thee Universe, Itself, and NOW, is REACHED through thinking AND in understanding.

Also, just because some thing is finite does NOT mean that you can reach it. For example, can you reach the beginning of the finite earth?

If yes, then how, EXACTLY?

Or, can you even reach the beginning of the finite 'you'?

If yes, then how, EXACTLY?
It is not about if I can reach the beginning or not. It is about the beginning and whether if we can reach from the beginning to now. It is not about the person waiting. It is about a process.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm

LOL
LOL
LOL

So, I ask you, 'Do you have ANY idea of how there could even be an "initial point", and your response is because "We (whoever or whatever that refers to) live now.

Are you now able to inform us of HOW and WHY it, supposedly, "logically follows" that if we live now, then there MUST BE 'a beginning'?

Also, and by the way, OF COURSE there is 'a beginning', BUT what this ACTUALLY MEANS and refers to is NOTHING like what just about ALL of 'you', adult human beings, envision or think of, in the days when this was being written.
You need to read the previous statement to see that the current statement would make sense to you.
Here we have just MORE ATTEMPTS at DEFLECTION, and NO attempts at answering the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed to these people who BELIEVE the CLAIMS they make.

The reason WHY these people do NOT even attempt to answer the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS I pose to them is because if they did, Honestly, then they would CONTRADICT what they have previously stated and/or PROVE what they have previously stated is Wrong, False, or Incorrect.
Whatever.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:37 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:25 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:15 pm Is this a question or a statement?
And old question.
FFS. Edit your crap, for pity's sake.
OK. Thanks.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:13 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
The "something" only exists intellectually.
Really. So your chair exists only intellectually?
Age
Posts: 20194
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:22 am
simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
If there is ONLY 'transition', which you are CLAIMING here, BUT there is neither something nor nothing, then what, EXACTLY, is 'transitioning'?
This cannot be known intellectually because our minds cannot access it.
Are you speaking for "yourself" or are you attempting to speak for EVERY one forever more?
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm We can only process so much information at a time [just a small sample of what reality is]. Our minds seem to be like a film where there are individual snapshots put together to make our movie.
Who or what, exactly, does the 'our' word refer to here?

What, exactly, are these 'minds' things, where, exactly, do they exist, and how, exactly, do they work?

And, how are the 'our' and 'minds' related, exactly?
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm But this isn't anywhere close to what reality actually is [an infinite amount of information].
I agree wholeheartedly with you that what you said here is NOT anywhere even close to what 'Reality' ACTUALLY IS.
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm This is why there are those who believe that accessing the non-intellectual is the way to go. Instead of being at the disadvantage of having such a poor processor and missing out on so much information, the non-intellectual takes what our minds can observe and without attempting to fill in the blanks [discrimination and interpretation on a large scale].
If you did NOT answer the CLARIFYING questions above in regards to these "mind" things, which you talk about here, then we will WAIT for that.
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm Transition is only a word we humans made-up to somehow make sense of the words and ideas preceding, but none of them have any basis in reality.
LOL So 'you', human beings, make up words to make sense of the words that you have already made up. Sounds far more confusing, to me, than things need to be.

And, LOL ALL of those words that 'you', human beings, make up do NOT even have ANY basis in 'reality', anyway, which ALL sounds VERY UNNECESSARY, to me. But each to their own.
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm Things are what they are regardless of our meager attempts to intellectualize them.
Is there ANY one who even thinks or believes otherwise?
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm All of these words just help us get through it all,
What does the human being made up word, 'it' here refer to, exactly?

And, WHY do 'you', human beings, need words to help 'you' get through 'it'?

What is, supposedly, so hard and/or complex about getting through 'it' without words? And, is it only 'you', human beings, out of ALL of the animals who need help getting through 'it'? If yes, then WHY?
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm similar to how all animals have exceptional sense organs that allow them a better chance at survival , as well.
Age
Posts: 20194
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:22 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
That is not the point whether what is the state of affair now and afterward. The point is what could be the state of affair.
If you EVER would like to delve into this FURTHER and DISCUSS this 'point', then I can PROVE to ANY one that because of the way thee One and ONLY Universe is RIGHT NOW, at ANY given point or moment, then this means that thee One and ONLY Universe could NOT be any different. Which also means the 'state of affair' could NOT be ANY thing ELSE.



But if you NEVER want to delve into this topic of discussion here, and just REMAIN with YOUR BELIEF ALONE, then PLEASE feel FREE TO. By you doing so is only PROVING another 'point' that I am more than happy to discuss over, AS WELL. The CHOICE is YOURS.

Oh, and by the way, considering the Fact that you are completely UNABLE to counter my CLAIM nor PROVE your BELIEF here, then if 'I' was 'you', then I would use that as a HINT and a GREAT LESSON to REMOVE the BELIEF and START becoming MORE OPEN to LISTENING and LEARNING MORE.
You still don't understand the difference between actual and possible.
WHY do you make so many ASSUMPTIONS, BEFORE you gain CLARIFICATION?

What is the difference between 'actual' and 'possible', to you.

Also, just maybe I do have some understanding of the difference between 'actual' and 'possible' and that is one of the reasons WHY I have written, what I ACTUALLY HAVE.

Anyway, you STILL have not yet even attempted to counter what I have said and written here.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Whatever that exists now.
AND, it is BECAUSE OF what exists NOW there is NO possible way that there could be ANOTHER 'state of affairs'. As I can VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY PROVE IRREFUTABLY True.
No. You are wrong.
LOL Is this all you can say here.

Are you at all able to PROVE your "No", and that "I am wrong"?

If yes, then will you?

If no, then WHY NOT?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
Did you read what I wrote?
This all depends on what you are referring to, EXACTLY.

Also, and by the way, AGAIN, just because you BELIEVE some thing is true, and then write this BELIEF down, this does NOT, and I will repeat DOES NOT, necessarily make 'it' true AT ALL.

Did you read this AND comprehend this?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Do you have any reason against the possible world? If yes what it is?
What it is IS; BECAUSE of what thee One and ONLY Universe is ESSENTIALLY and FUNDAMENTALLY made up of, and BECAUSE of how thee One and ONLY Universe ACTUALLY WORKS, this is WHY there could NEVER be ANY other possible 'world', NOR "state of affairs", as you say.

Once you learn and understand what thee One and ONLY Universe is made up and how It ACTUALLY WORKS, then you will also learn and understand the REASON AGAINST your 'possible world' theory or BELIEF.
Do you understand the difference between actual and possible?
I have an understanding. Do you understand the difference?

If yes, and you did not answer before, then what is the difference between 'actual' and 'possible'?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
What do you want?
For 'you', adult human beings, to firstly;
Become Truly responsible for your Wrong and ABUSIVE behaviors towards children, and then the 'world', by just being Truly Honest and OPEN by admitting the Wrong and ABUSE that you ALL do.
Secondly; Take responsibility by just seriously Wanting to CHANGE, for the better, for children's sake and doing this by doing EVERY thing you can to ACTUALLY CHANGE, for the better, for them.
Thirdly, STOP making ASSUMPTIONS and holding BELIEFS.

What do you want?
What are you talking about?
You asked me a question, I gave you my answer.

WHY will you NOT answer the questions I ask you?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
I cannot be open to absurdity.
But by holding BELIEFS, and thus NOT being OPEN, is ABSURDITY, itself, to the highest degree.

Also, INSTEAD of just saying, "I cannot be open to absurdity", how about you EXPLAIN what, EXACTLY, is absurd, to you, and then EXPLAIN how and why 'it' is absurd to you, then we will KNOW, for sure, what you are actually thinking about here.

Also, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of what happens and occurs when one has and holds BELIEFS. That is; they are just NOT OPEN to ANY thing contrary to their BELIEF, even if the contrary is what IS ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True.
You don't understand my argument as usual. That is all.
LOL
LOL
LOL

What IS "your argument"?

This thread started with the question; "WHY is there something instead of nothing?"

What is there to 'argue' about here, EXACTLY?

And, in our discussion here most of it has just been about you BELIEVING that OTHER "worlds" and OTHER "state of affairs" could exist, which, by the way, is a COMPLETE DETRACTION from WHY there is something instead of nothing.

I am also trying to gain CLARIFICATION, from you, of WHY you CLAIM that there is NOT something, but STILL have proposed the question, "Why is there something instead of nothing?"
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
You don't understand what infinity means.
LOL

Your BELIEFS are STRIKINGLY CLEAR TO SEE HERE.

Now, YOUR CLAIM here is that I do NOT understand what 'infinity' means, but just be forewarned that what you think or BELIEVE is true is NOT necessarily true AT ALL. Just maybe I understand 'infinity', in relation to thee Universe, Itself, better or more than you do. We will just have to WAIT and SEE.
Tell me what does infinity means?
I can NOT tell you what the word 'infinity' means, as that is completely and utterly up to 'you'. But what I can do is provide you with the definition of the word 'infinity', from my perspective.

To me, the word 'infinity' means or refers to; the state or quality of being 'infinite'. With the word 'infinite' just meaning or referring to; limitless or endless .
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm Then tell me how we could reach from infinite past to now.
We ACTUALLY reach from so-called "infinite past" to NOW the EXACT SAME we reach from so-called "infinite after" from NOW.

There is NO ACTUAL past NOR after. What ONLY ACTUALLY exists is the NOW.

But, if you were thinking some thing different, like for example, How could what exists NOW be followed, or traced, backwards in the past to a point BEFORE some made up "beginning"? Then, this is ALSO EXTREMELY SIMPLE AND EASY to do.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Otherwise, you won't believe that it is possible to reach from infinite past to now.
ONCE AGAIN, for the countless time, I neither BELIEVE nor DISBELIEVE ANY thing, including what YOU CLAIM here.

The ACTUAL WAY, "to reach from infinite past to now", is within the ACTUAL WORDS you just used here.
Do you understand the difference between finite and infinite?
I have an understanding. Do you have an understanding?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm What is the difference?
One refers to what is limited while the other one refers to what is limitless, and, one refers to what began and ends while the other one refers to never beginning nor ending, or just endless.

If you are NOT YET AWARE which one is which here, then just let me KNOW and I will INFORM you, okay?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm Infinity by definition is unreachable opposite to finite.
LOL
LOL
LOL

Is this the One and ONLY definition, which EVERY one HAS TO agree with AND accept?

Also, just because you can NOT reach some thing through thinking or UNDERSTANDING, does NOT mean that I am also UNABLE TO.

Once you learn and understand just what thee Universe ACTUALLY IS and how It ACTUALLY WORKS, then 'infinity', in relation to thee Universe, Itself, and NOW, is REACHED through thinking AND in understanding.

Also, just because some thing is finite does NOT mean that you can reach it. For example, can you reach the beginning of the finite earth?

If yes, then how, EXACTLY?

Or, can you even reach the beginning of the finite 'you'?

If yes, then how, EXACTLY?
It is not about if I can reach the beginning or not.
Well it was YOU who was the ONE who said and wrote: Infinity by definition is unreachable opposite to finite.
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm It is about the beginning and whether if we can reach from the beginning to now.
But there is NO beginning (and there was NO ending) in relation to thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself.

So, what does the word 'it' here refer to, EXACTLY, in YOUR CLAIM that " 'it' is about the beginning"?

And, what does "the beginning" of that 'it' refer to, EXACTLY?

Then we can LOOK AT and DISCUSS if we can reach "that beginning to now", which will OBVIOUSLY all depend on what you mean or refer to by the word 'reach'
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm It is not about the person waiting. It is about a process.
WHY did you say, " 'it' is not about the person waiting ", when NO has mentioned ANY thing about 'waiting' here? And, what does the 'it' word here refer to, EXACTLY?
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:47 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:04 pm
You need to read the previous statement to see that the current statement would make sense to you.
Here we have just MORE ATTEMPTS at DEFLECTION, and NO attempts at answering the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed to these people who BELIEVE the CLAIMS they make.

The reason WHY these people do NOT even attempt to answer the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS I pose to them is because if they did, Honestly, then they would CONTRADICT what they have previously stated and/or PROVE what they have previously stated is Wrong, False, or Incorrect.
Whatever.
Well this is EXACTLY what you are doing, and the EXACT reason WHY you are doing this. So, 'whatever' was the ONLY thing you could have said HERE-NOW.

You, OBVIOUSLY, could NOT refute what I have said and written here.
simplicity
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 5:23 pm

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by simplicity »

Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:37 pm
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:13 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
The "something" only exists intellectually.
But what is the "something", which supposedly exists only intellectually?

And, what does the only exists intellectually "something" ACTUALLY exist within?
The something is anything you wish it to be.

The mind.

And where does the mind exist? Now isn't that the million dollar question.
simplicity
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 5:23 pm

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by simplicity »

bahman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:50 pm
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:13 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
The "something" only exists intellectually.
Really. So your chair exists only intellectually?
Technically, yes.
simplicity
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 5:23 pm

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by simplicity »

Age wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 am
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:22 am If there is ONLY 'transition', which you are CLAIMING here, BUT there is neither something nor nothing, then what, EXACTLY, is 'transitioning'?
This cannot be known intellectually because our minds cannot access it.
Age wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 amAre you speaking for "yourself" or are you attempting to speak for EVERY one forever more?
What's the difference?
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm We can only process so much information at a time [just a small sample of what reality is]. Our minds seem to be like a film where there are individual snapshots put together to make our movie.
Age wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 amWho or what, exactly, does the 'our' word refer to here?
Remember, I am the guy who says we cannot know anything. This is pure speculation based upon experience not intellect.
Age wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 amWhat, exactly, are these 'minds' things, where, exactly, do they exist, and how, exactly, do they work?
What do you think?
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm But this isn't anywhere close to what reality actually is [an infinite amount of information].
I agree wholeheartedly with you that what you said here is NOT anywhere even close to what 'Reality' ACTUALLY IS.
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm This is why there are those who believe that accessing the non-intellectual is the way to go. Instead of being at the disadvantage of having such a poor processor and missing out on so much information, the non-intellectual takes what our minds can observe and without attempting to fill in the blanks [discrimination and interpretation on a large scale].
Age wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 amIf you did NOT answer the CLARIFYING questions above in regards to these "mind" things, which you talk about here, then we will WAIT for that.
Who is "we?" :)
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:35 pm Transition is only a word we humans made-up to somehow make sense of the words and ideas preceding, but none of them have any basis in reality.
LOL So 'you', human beings, make up words to make sense of the words that you have already made up. Sounds far more confusing, to me, than things need to be.
Age wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 amAnd, LOL ALL of those words that 'you', human beings, make up do NOT even have ANY basis in 'reality', anyway, which ALL sounds VERY UNNECESSARY, to me. But each to their own.
Yes, to each his own.
Age
Posts: 20194
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

simplicity wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:29 am
Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:37 pm
simplicity wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:13 pm
The "something" only exists intellectually.
But what is the "something", which supposedly exists only intellectually?

And, what does the only exists intellectually "something" ACTUALLY exist within?
The something is anything you wish it to be.
So, the "something" could be 'your chair', which, to you, exists ONLY "intellectually", correct?

If yes, then
simplicity wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:29 am The mind.
'your chair' ACTUALLY exists within 'the mind', correct?
simplicity wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:29 am And where does the mind exist? Now isn't that the million dollar question.
If you say so, but thee ONE and ONLY ACTUAL answer is FREE.
Post Reply