Why is there something instead of nothing?

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bahman
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Why is there something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
Last edited by bahman on Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
simplicity
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by simplicity »

bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
Age
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair.
Will you list some of the "many other possible states of affair"?

And are you able to decipher between what are 'actual state of affairs' from what are 'possible states of affair'?

If yes, then will you list and show the different ones?
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair.
How could there even be a "initial state of affair"?
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
If ANY one wants to suggest that there was or even could have been an "initial point", then they have at least some idea of how this could even be a POSSIBILITY, that is; if they want to be taken seriously.

So, do you have ANY idea of how there could even be an "initial point"?
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bahman
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
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bahman
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair.
Will you list some of the "many other possible states of affair"?
An empty universe, a universe with only a single electron, etc.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm And are you able to decipher between what are 'actual state of affairs' from what are 'possible states of affair'?
The actual state of affair is something that exists. The possible state of affair is a hypothetical one, something that could exist, it doesn't exist now but there is no reason against its existence.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm If yes, then will you list and show the different ones?
The actual state of affair like you who are reading my response now. Anything that is real.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair.
How could there even be a "initial state of affair"?
This we have been through it several times. Regress in time is not acceptable, therefore there was a beginning.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
If ANY one wants to suggest that there was or even could have been an "initial point", then they have at least some idea of how this could even be a POSSIBILITY, that is; if they want to be taken seriously.

So, do you have ANY idea of how there could even be an "initial point"?
We cannot reach from infinite past to now if there was no beginning for time. We live now, therefore there was a beginning.
Age
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair.
Will you list some of the "many other possible states of affair"?
An empty universe, a universe with only a single electron, etc.
Okay, but there exists NOW the 'state of affair' of 'things existing', and because that 'state of affair' exists NOW, there is NO chance of ANY other possibility, EVER.
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm And are you able to decipher between what are 'actual state of affairs' from what are 'possible states of affair'?
The actual state of affair is something that exists.
And what IS the some thing that exists NOW?
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm The possible state of affair is a hypothetical one, something that could exist, it doesn't exist now but there is no reason against its existence.
LOL
LOL
LOL

But there only needs to be One thing against "possible state of affairs" to SEE and UNDERSTAND how they REALLY are NOT 'possibilities' AT ALL.

Just because you can IMAGINE different things this does NOT mean they can ACTUALLY exist at all. You have to be able to PROVE how they could possibly exist BEFORE they could ACTUALLY exist. And, if one EVER delves into this deep enough or far enough, then what is CLEARLY SEEN and FULLY UNDERSTOOD is that NONE of the other so-called "possibilities" could ACTUALLY exist.

And, if ANY one is INTERESTED enough to delve into this Fact, then I am more than happy to discuss this with them.
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm If yes, then will you list and show the different ones?
The actual state of affair like you who are reading my response now. Anything that is real.
Again, you are NOT understanding me here.
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair.
How could there even be a "initial state of affair"?
This we have been through it several times. Regress in time is not acceptable, therefore there was a beginning.
LOL
LOL
LOL

We have NOT YET 'been through' this EVER. What has occurred, and continues to occur, is that you BELIEVE some thing is true, which means you are NOT OPEN to ANY thing else contrary.

Also, and by the way, because of what 'time' ACTUALLY IS, 'regress' is NOT even an issue AT ALL. But you will NEVER learn and understand this Fact, while you retain this BELIEF of yours here.
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
If ANY one wants to suggest that there was or even could have been an "initial point", then they have at least some idea of how this could even be a POSSIBILITY, that is; if they want to be taken seriously.

So, do you have ANY idea of how there could even be an "initial point"?
We cannot reach from infinite past to now if there was no beginning for time.
This is just what you BELIEVE is true. It is NOT necessarily what is ACTUALLY True.

And, what IS ACTUALLY True, which by the way is NOT what you BELIEVE here, can be PROVED, IRREFUTABLY True.
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm We live now, therefore there was a beginning.
LOL
LOL
LOL

So, I ask you, 'Do you have ANY idea of how there could even be an "initial point", and your response is because "We (whoever or whatever that refers to) live now.

Are you now able to inform us of HOW and WHY it, supposedly, "logically follows" that if we live now, then there MUST BE 'a beginning'?

Also, and by the way, OF COURSE there is 'a beginning', BUT what this ACTUALLY MEANS and refers to is NOTHING like what just about ALL of 'you', adult human beings, envision or think of, in the days when this was being written.
Age
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
If there is ONLY 'transition', which you are CLAIMING here, BUT there is neither something nor nothing, then what, EXACTLY, is 'transitioning'?
Age
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
LOL So, you AGREE that there is not something but you are arguing, with someone or with "yourself", about why there is something at all.

Are you AWARE of just HOW MANY TIMES you CONTRADICT "yourself", "bahman"?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
Something is Nothing. And Nothing is Something.

A contradiction is the same indistinguishable state, because nothing knows something, and something knows nothing.

.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pmWhy there is something instead of nothing?
As for the answer to the question WHY?

A ''why'' question can NEVER be answered, because questions can only arise to the sense of a separate self, which does not exist in reality. It would be likened to a 'Tree' asking itself 'why do I exist', the very idea is absurd.

.
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bahman
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:19 am
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
Will you list some of the "many other possible states of affair"?
An empty universe, a universe with only a single electron, etc.
Okay, but there exists NOW the 'state of affair' of 'things existing', and because that 'state of affair' exists NOW, there is NO chance of ANY other possibility, EVER.
That is not the point whether what is the state of affair now and afterward. The point is what could be the state of affair.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm And are you able to decipher between what are 'actual state of affairs' from what are 'possible states of affair'?
The actual state of affair is something that exists.
And what IS the some thing that exists NOW?
Whatever that exists now.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm The possible state of affair is a hypothetical one, something that could exist, it doesn't exist now but there is no reason against its existence.
LOL
LOL
LOL

But there only needs to be One thing against "possible state of affairs" to SEE and UNDERSTAND how they REALLY are NOT 'possibilities' AT ALL.

Just because you can IMAGINE different things this does NOT mean they can ACTUALLY exist at all. You have to be able to PROVE how they could possibly exist BEFORE they could ACTUALLY exist. And, if one EVER delves into this deep enough or far enough, then what is CLEARLY SEEN and FULLY UNDERSTOOD is that NONE of the other so-called "possibilities" could ACTUALLY exist.

And, if ANY one is INTERESTED enough to delve into this Fact, then I am more than happy to discuss this with them.
Did you read what I wrote? Do you have any reason against the possible world? If yes what it is?
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm If yes, then will you list and show the different ones?
The actual state of affair like you who are reading my response now. Anything that is real.
Again, you are NOT understanding me here.
What do you want?
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
How could there even be a "initial state of affair"?
This we have been through it several times. Regress in time is not acceptable, therefore there was a beginning.
LOL
LOL
LOL

We have NOT YET 'been through' this EVER. What has occurred, and continues to occur, is that you BELIEVE some thing is true, which means you are NOT OPEN to ANY thing else contrary.

Also, and by the way, because of what 'time' ACTUALLY IS, 'regress' is NOT even an issue AT ALL. But you will NEVER learn and understand this Fact, while you retain this BELIEF of yours here.
I cannot be open to absurdity.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
If ANY one wants to suggest that there was or even could have been an "initial point", then they have at least some idea of how this could even be a POSSIBILITY, that is; if they want to be taken seriously.

So, do you have ANY idea of how there could even be an "initial point"?
We cannot reach from infinite past to now if there was no beginning for time.
This is just what you BELIEVE is true. It is NOT necessarily what is ACTUALLY True.

And, what IS ACTUALLY True, which by the way is NOT what you BELIEVE here, can be PROVED, IRREFUTABLY True.
You don't understand what infinity means. Otherwise, you won't believe that it is possible to reach from infinite past to now. Infinity by definition is unreachable opposite to finite.
Age wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:14 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 pm We live now, therefore there was a beginning.
LOL
LOL
LOL

So, I ask you, 'Do you have ANY idea of how there could even be an "initial point", and your response is because "We (whoever or whatever that refers to) live now.

Are you now able to inform us of HOW and WHY it, supposedly, "logically follows" that if we live now, then there MUST BE 'a beginning'?

Also, and by the way, OF COURSE there is 'a beginning', BUT what this ACTUALLY MEANS and refers to is NOTHING like what just about ALL of 'you', adult human beings, envision or think of, in the days when this was being written.
You need to read the previous statement to see that the current statement would make sense to you.
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bahman
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:24 am
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
LOL So, you AGREE that there is not something but you are arguing, with someone or with "yourself", about why there is something at all.

Are you AWARE of just HOW MANY TIMES you CONTRADICT "yourself", "bahman"?
Do you understand what transition means? It means that you go from one state to another one. So you cannot have both at the same time and you cannot have one at any time.
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bahman
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:25 am
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
Something is Nothing. And Nothing is Something.

A contradiction is the same indistinguishable state, because nothing knows something, and something knows nothing.

.
As usual, you are not making any sense.
simplicity
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Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by simplicity »

bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:35 pm
simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
I agree with that but here we are arguing that why there is something at all.
The "something" only exists intellectually.
simplicity
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 5:23 pm

Re: Why there is something instead of nothing?

Post by simplicity »

Age wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:22 am
simplicity wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:39 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:05 pm Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.
There is neither something nor nothing...only transition.
If there is ONLY 'transition', which you are CLAIMING here, BUT there is neither something nor nothing, then what, EXACTLY, is 'transitioning'?
This cannot be known intellectually because our minds cannot access it. We can only process so much information at a time [just a small sample of what reality is]. Our minds seem to be like a film where there are individual snapshots put together to make our movie. But this isn't anywhere close to what reality actually is [an infinite amount of information].

This is why there are those who believe that accessing the non-intellectual is the way to go. Instead of being at the disadvantage of having such a poor processor and missing out on so much information, the non-intellectual takes what our minds can observe and without attempting to fill in the blanks [discrimination and interpretation on a large scale].

Transition is only a word we humans made-up to somehow make sense of the words and ideas preceding, but none of them have any basis in reality. Things are what they are regardless of our meager attempts to intellectualize them. All of these words just help us get through it all, similar to how all animals have exceptional sense organs that allow them a better chance at survival , as well.
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