Why is there something instead of nothing?

[bahman]

I KNOW.

I only begin to 'argue' when, and IF, people SHOW INTEREST.

Ok, I am interested.

This may be true, but as is sometimes said, 'actions speak much louder than words'.

What I ALSO said was, when, and IF, people SHOW interest.

I KNOW because the Universe is like this now to does not mean it could be different.

Because the Universe is the way It IS, and works the way It does, ALWAYS NOW, this MEANS that thee Universe could NOT be DIFFERENT than what It IS, at ANY and EVERY moment of NOW.

I should have said, "Because the universe is like this now it does not mean it could not be different."

This is what you keep CLAIMING is true.

We now just WAIT for you to PROVE this true.

And, while we WAIT for this, we will WAIT for you to just explain HOW this could even a POSSIBILITY, let alone an ACTUALITY.

I NEVER said I did.

Were you ASSUMING I did?

Cool. So you agree with my definition of actual and possible?

For sake of this discussion, yes.

If you are spending your time EXPECTING me to BELIEVE or to ACCEPT that what you are saying and claiming here is either true or absolutely true, then I will INFORM you IRREFUTABLY that you ARE WASTING your time.

Let's start with the definition of possible. If something is possible (like possible universes) then it means it could exist. Could we agree on this?

VERY, VERY MUCH SO.

If yes, then the universe could be different.

This is a VERY MUCH NO.

The reasons WHY I have ALREADY EXPLAINED.

YES.

And, as I have ALREADY PREVIOUSLY STATED that definition FURTHER PROVES what I have been saying and claiming True.

No, you are wrong.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You continually CLAIM that, "I am wrong", but, relatively, NEVER even ask me for CLARIFICATION in regards to what I am am ACTUALLY MEANING.

LOOK, HOW could you KNOW that "I am wrong" in regards to HOW YOUR DEFINITIONS for the words 'possible' AND 'actual' could AND do FURTHER PROOF that what I have been saying and claiming IS True, when you do NOT YET EVEN FULLY KNOW what I am TALKING ABOUT?

I have read YOUR opening post here AGAIN. I STILL WONDER WHY you AGREE that there is NOT 'something', but STILL question, "Why is there something instead of nothing"?

You asking, "Could you possibly exist not?" is NONSENSICAL as when you asked, "Why there is something instead of nothing?"

Look, a lot of your views are just plain False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect to begin with, let alone 'trying to' decipher what your words are saying or asking in "english".

If, here, you are asking me, 'Could you possibly exist, if your parents did not decide to have you?' Then the answer is Yes.

But this will only DETRACT from the point in which you are 'trying to' make here, correct?

No. That is the meaning of possibility.

WHAT is the meaning of possibility?

When you say things like, "That is the meaning of possibility", then I have absolutely NO idea what the 'that' word is referring to, EXACTLY?

And, I am NOT going to start ASSUMING things, in case I make a mistake. Is this UNDERSTOOD, by you?

You were a possibility which means that you could exist.

So, your "argument" now is, because 'you' or absolutely ANY thing is a possibility, IN THE FUTURE, then this means absolutely ANY thing COULD EXIST, correct?

That is different from being necessary which means that you should exist. You are however actual which means that you only exist.

ONCE AGAIN, this is ALL a DETRACTION from what you WERE CLAIMING. Or, I am STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING 'you'.

And, ONCE MORE, WHAT does the first 'that' in your first sentence here refer to, EXACTLY?

Also, are you AWARE that 'you' could exist if your parents did not decide to have you?

Well if a process has no end, then, obviously, THE PROCESS is unreachable.

However, if ANY one was to LOOK BACK, then what can be CLEARLY SEEN are the words that you have ACTUALLY used and written here. Which could completely contradict your claim now that you were NOT talking about humans.

So you agree that the end of a process with no end cannot be reached?

If, when I CLEARLY WROTE THE WORDS, 'if a process has no end, then, obviously, THE PROCESS is unreachable' was NOT CLEAR ENOUGH, for you, that I AGREE that the end of a process with no end cannot be reached, then let us SEE if these words will make it CLEAR ENOUGH, for you - YES, I AGREE that the end of a process with NO end cannot be reached.

If yes, then there is no process that started without any starting. Therefore, the universe has a beginning.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You TRULY DO make me LAUGH OUT LOUD "bahman".

OF COURSE there is NO process that STARTED, without ANY STARTING. This is just as OBVIOUS as some of your OTHER CLAIMS.

But to 'try to' relate that OBVIOUS statement and claim to; "Therefore, the Universe has a beginning", as though this 'logically followed', is about as UNSOUND as I have SEEN, from you.

LOOK, it was ALREADY VERY OBVIOUS what your BELIEFS are here, but your ATTEMPTS at 'trying to' valid those BELIEFS are only working AGAINST YOU.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You could not be MORE Wrong and MORE off track and topic here ANYMORE.

I have NEVER thought that "nothing comes out of nothing", and I have NEVER thought that "there must be nothing at the beginning".

Do you EVER recall me advising that if one wants to make a CLAIM, then it would be much better for them if they had thee ACTUAL PROOF BEFORE they make the CLAIM in the first place, or that it is best if wants seeks and gains CLARITY BEFORE they make ANY ASSUMPTION, AT ALL?

If yes, then okay.

But if no, then okay.

By the way, it is you who thinks or BELIEVES that EVERY thing came from NOTHING correct?

If no, then what do you think or BELIEVE here?

I should have said, "You are trapped because you think that nothing comes out of nothing is impossible and there must be nothing at the beginning.".

1. I do NOT think that nothing comes out of nothing is impossible.

2. I do NOT think that there must be nothing at the beginning.

WHERE are you getting these ASSUMPTIONS from EXACTLY?

WHAT is driving you to ASSUME such ABSURD, Wrong, and RIDICULOUS things as these?

I can think of about five DIFFERENT ways of taking this discussion now, but I will just leave this with those two CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, for you.

HOW and WHY, EXACTLY?

Let us SEE if you are REALLY able to back up and support YOUR CLAIMS here.

We will see.

Are you AWARE that IT IS YOU that we are WAITING FOR?

LOL

I can do it AND have, ALREADY, done it.

And, I have done it in a way, that is Truly SO SIMPLE and SO EASY to do.

Nonesense.

Here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of just HOW CLOSED the people, in these days, REALLY ARE.

They can seek absolutely NO clarity AT ALL sort, and have absolutely NO knowledge AT ALL of what 'it' IS that I am ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT, but they would STILL respond with things like, "Nonsense".

LOL

You OBVIOUSLY have NOT YET REFUTED what I have been saying here.

What? That you have reached from infinite past to now. That is only a claim without any support.

BUT thee support IS HERE. You jut can NOT YET SEE 'it' BECAUSE you are completely and utterly BLINDED by your own BELIEFS and thus because you are SO CLOSED.

Do you understand the difference between necessary and possible?

[simplicity]

Also, WHY, EXACTLY, did you turn that into a male gendered scenario ONLY?
This is your imagination.

Somebody did a number on you.

Is this a statement, or a question?

Like many folks, everything you experience must fit the narrative currently implanted in your consciousness. Just look at the people who see everything as racist. People need to take back their own minds and discriminate without undo external influence. Seek some sense of balance so you can see both sides.

[Age]

Also, WHY, EXACTLY, did you turn that into a male gendered scenario ONLY?
This is your imagination.

WHY did you write and add these two sentences together here?

I OBVIOUSLY NEVER did. So, WHY did you quote them as though I wrote them like that?

Somebody did a number on you.

Is this a statement, or a question?

Like many folks, everything you experience must fit the narrative currently implanted in your consciousness.

To me, there is NO "your consciousness". And, NOT EVERY thing experienced by this body MUST fit in with the "narrative" current at ANY given moment.

Just look at the people who see everything as racist.

Do you see there are people who see EVERY thing as racist?

If yes, then who are they?

Also, one could also say just look at the people who see there are people who see EVERY thing as racist. OBVIOUSLY, there is NOT a human being who does see EVERY thing as racist. So, ANY one who when 'looking' SEES people like this, then they are forming an ILLOGICAL, Wrong, False, AND Incorrect perspective to fit in with the narrative, or BELIEF, that they are currently having and/or HOLDING ONTO.

People need to take back their own minds and discriminate without undo external influence.

What, EXACTLY, are these "mind" things, which are commonly referred to as "one's own", in the days when this is being written?

Also, how does one have absolutely ANY thing, in which to 'discriminate', if they have NOT been exposed to 'external influence'?

'you' are, because of 'external influence', and will 'you' exist there will be 'external influence' upon 'you'. Being able to decipher what is ACTUALLY True, Right, and Correct from what is ACTUALLY Wrong, False, and Incorrect is just some thing that 'you', human beings, are evolving into being able to do, CORRECTLY.

Seek some sense of balance so you can see both sides.

Have you got ANY examples, which you would like to SHARE with us here, in which you think or BELIEVE that I do NOT see "both sides" and also where I do NOT, ALREADY, see thee ACTUAL Truth, which LIES between the "two"?

If yes, then GREAT, and will you SHARE them with us here?

[Age]

Ok, I am interested.

This may be true, but as is sometimes said, 'actions speak much louder than words'.

What I ALSO said was, when, and IF, people SHOW interest.

I should have said, "Because the universe is like this now it does not mean it could not be different."

This is what you keep CLAIMING is true.

We now just WAIT for you to PROVE this true.

And, while we WAIT for this, we will WAIT for you to just explain HOW this could even a POSSIBILITY, let alone an ACTUALITY.

Cool. So you agree with my definition of actual and possible?

For sake of this discussion, yes.

Let's start with the definition of possible. If something is possible (like possible universes) then it means it could exist. Could we agree on this?

VERY, VERY MUCH SO.

If yes, then the universe could be different.

This is a VERY MUCH NO.

The reasons WHY I have ALREADY EXPLAINED.

No, you are wrong.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You continually CLAIM that, "I am wrong", but, relatively, NEVER even ask me for CLARIFICATION in regards to what I am am ACTUALLY MEANING.

LOOK, HOW could you KNOW that "I am wrong" in regards to HOW YOUR DEFINITIONS for the words 'possible' AND 'actual' could AND do FURTHER PROOF that what I have been saying and claiming IS True, when you do NOT YET EVEN FULLY KNOW what I am TALKING ABOUT?

No. That is the meaning of possibility.

WHAT is the meaning of possibility?

When you say things like, "That is the meaning of possibility", then I have absolutely NO idea what the 'that' word is referring to, EXACTLY?

And, I am NOT going to start ASSUMING things, in case I make a mistake. Is this UNDERSTOOD, by you?

You were a possibility which means that you could exist.

So, your "argument" now is, because 'you' or absolutely ANY thing is a possibility, IN THE FUTURE, then this means absolutely ANY thing COULD EXIST, correct?

That is different from being necessary which means that you should exist. You are however actual which means that you only exist.

ONCE AGAIN, this is ALL a DETRACTION from what you WERE CLAIMING. Or, I am STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING 'you'.

And, ONCE MORE, WHAT does the first 'that' in your first sentence here refer to, EXACTLY?

Also, are you AWARE that 'you' could exist if your parents did not decide to have you?

So you agree that the end of a process with no end cannot be reached?

If, when I CLEARLY WROTE THE WORDS, 'if a process has no end, then, obviously, THE PROCESS is unreachable' was NOT CLEAR ENOUGH, for you, that I AGREE that the end of a process with no end cannot be reached, then let us SEE if these words will make it CLEAR ENOUGH, for you - YES, I AGREE that the end of a process with NO end cannot be reached.

If yes, then there is no process that started without any starting. Therefore, the universe has a beginning.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You TRULY DO make me LAUGH OUT LOUD "bahman".

OF COURSE there is NO process that STARTED, without ANY STARTING. This is just as OBVIOUS as some of your OTHER CLAIMS.

But to 'try to' relate that OBVIOUS statement and claim to; "Therefore, the Universe has a beginning", as though this 'logically followed', is about as UNSOUND as I have SEEN, from you.

LOOK, it was ALREADY VERY OBVIOUS what your BELIEFS are here, but your ATTEMPTS at 'trying to' valid those BELIEFS are only working AGAINST YOU.

I should have said, "You are trapped because you think that nothing comes out of nothing is impossible and there must be nothing at the beginning.".

1. I do NOT think that nothing comes out of nothing is impossible.

2. I do NOT think that there must be nothing at the beginning.

WHERE are you getting these ASSUMPTIONS from EXACTLY?

WHAT is driving you to ASSUME such ABSURD, Wrong, and RIDICULOUS things as these?

I can think of about five DIFFERENT ways of taking this discussion now, but I will just leave this with those two CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, for you.

We will see.

Are you AWARE that IT IS YOU that we are WAITING FOR?

Nonesense.

Here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of just HOW CLOSED the people, in these days, REALLY ARE.

They can seek absolutely NO clarity AT ALL sort, and have absolutely NO knowledge AT ALL of what 'it' IS that I am ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT, but they would STILL respond with things like, "Nonsense".

What? That you have reached from infinite past to now. That is only a claim without any support.

BUT thee support IS HERE. You jut can NOT YET SEE 'it' BECAUSE you are completely and utterly BLINDED by your own BELIEFS and thus because you are SO CLOSED.

Do you understand the difference between necessary and possible?

Do you understand that most of what you say here is just False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect?

[bahman]

This may be true, but as is sometimes said, 'actions speak much louder than words'.

What I ALSO said was, when, and IF, people SHOW interest.


This is what you keep CLAIMING is true.

We now just WAIT for you to PROVE this true.

And, while we WAIT for this, we will WAIT for you to just explain HOW this could even a POSSIBILITY, let alone an ACTUALITY.



For sake of this discussion, yes.


VERY, VERY MUCH SO.



This is a VERY MUCH NO.

The reasons WHY I have ALREADY EXPLAINED.


LOL
LOL
LOL

You continually CLAIM that, "I am wrong", but, relatively, NEVER even ask me for CLARIFICATION in regards to what I am am ACTUALLY MEANING.

LOOK, HOW could you KNOW that "I am wrong" in regards to HOW YOUR DEFINITIONS for the words 'possible' AND 'actual' could AND do FURTHER PROOF that what I have been saying and claiming IS True, when you do NOT YET EVEN FULLY KNOW what I am TALKING ABOUT?


WHAT is the meaning of possibility?

When you say things like, "That is the meaning of possibility", then I have absolutely NO idea what the 'that' word is referring to, EXACTLY?

And, I am NOT going to start ASSUMING things, in case I make a mistake. Is this UNDERSTOOD, by you?



So, your "argument" now is, because 'you' or absolutely ANY thing is a possibility, IN THE FUTURE, then this means absolutely ANY thing COULD EXIST, correct?


ONCE AGAIN, this is ALL a DETRACTION from what you WERE CLAIMING. Or, I am STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING 'you'.

And, ONCE MORE, WHAT does the first 'that' in your first sentence here refer to, EXACTLY?

Also, are you AWARE that 'you' could exist if your parents did not decide to have you?


If, when I CLEARLY WROTE THE WORDS, 'if a process has no end, then, obviously, THE PROCESS is unreachable' was NOT CLEAR ENOUGH, for you, that I AGREE that the end of a process with no end cannot be reached, then let us SEE if these words will make it CLEAR ENOUGH, for you - YES, I AGREE that the end of a process with NO end cannot be reached.



LOL
LOL
LOL

You TRULY DO make me LAUGH OUT LOUD "bahman".

OF COURSE there is NO process that STARTED, without ANY STARTING. This is just as OBVIOUS as some of your OTHER CLAIMS.

But to 'try to' relate that OBVIOUS statement and claim to; "Therefore, the Universe has a beginning", as though this 'logically followed', is about as UNSOUND as I have SEEN, from you.

LOOK, it was ALREADY VERY OBVIOUS what your BELIEFS are here, but your ATTEMPTS at 'trying to' valid those BELIEFS are only working AGAINST YOU.


1. I do NOT think that nothing comes out of nothing is impossible.

2. I do NOT think that there must be nothing at the beginning.

WHERE are you getting these ASSUMPTIONS from EXACTLY?

WHAT is driving you to ASSUME such ABSURD, Wrong, and RIDICULOUS things as these?

I can think of about five DIFFERENT ways of taking this discussion now, but I will just leave this with those two CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, for you.


Are you AWARE that IT IS YOU that we are WAITING FOR?


Here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of just HOW CLOSED the people, in these days, REALLY ARE.

They can seek absolutely NO clarity AT ALL sort, and have absolutely NO knowledge AT ALL of what 'it' IS that I am ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT, but they would STILL respond with things like, "Nonsense".


BUT thee support IS HERE. You jut can NOT YET SEE 'it' BECAUSE you are completely and utterly BLINDED by your own BELIEFS and thus because you are SO CLOSED.

Do you understand the difference between necessary and possible?

Do you understand that most of what you say here is just False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect?

No. What I said is correct.

[simplicity]

Have you got ANY examples, which you would like to SHARE with us here, in which you think or BELIEVE that I do NOT see "both sides" and also where I do NOT, ALREADY, see thee ACTUAL Truth, which LIES between the "two"?

If yes, then GREAT, and will you SHARE them with us here?

These are just discussions between folks that have mutual interests. What you are doing is personalizing everything. I don't know you or anything about you. I am discussing subject-matter. Stay on-topic being and don't worry so much about your feelings. No offence, but nobody else cares either [nor should they].

[Age]

Do you understand the difference between necessary and possible?

Do you understand that most of what you say here is just False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect?

No. What I said is correct.

Okay. If that is what you BELIEVE is true, and want to continue to BELIEVE is true, then please feel FREE to do so.

[Age]

Have you got ANY examples, which you would like to SHARE with us here, in which you think or BELIEVE that I do NOT see "both sides" and also where I do NOT, ALREADY, see thee ACTUAL Truth, which LIES between the "two"?

If yes, then GREAT, and will you SHARE them with us here?

These are just discussions between folks that have mutual interests. What you are doing is personalizing everything. I don't know you or anything about you. I am discussing subject-matter. Stay on-topic being and don't worry so much about your feelings. No offence, but nobody else cares either [nor should they].

Well, besides this being ANOTHER completely and utterly Wrong ASSUMPTION, you have PROVIDED us with ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of WHEN and WHERE the adult population, in the days when this was being written, will 'try' just about ANY thing to DEFLECT and DETRACT from what they have previously CLAIMED when I CHALLENGE them to back up and support their CLAIMS, and/or when I question them in order to gain CLARITY about what 'it' ACTUALLY IS that they are saying and talking about.

[simplicity]

Well, besides this being ANOTHER completely and utterly Wrong ASSUMPTION, you have PROVIDED us with ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of WHEN and WHERE the adult population, in the days when this was being written, will 'try' just about ANY thing to DEFLECT and DETRACT from what they have previously CLAIMED when I CHALLENGE them to back up and support their CLAIMS, and/or when I question them in order to gain CLARITY about what 'it' ACTUALLY IS that they are saying and talking about.

Enough. Have a good one!