Why is there something instead of nothing?

[Age]

The "something" only exists intellectually.

Really. So your chair exists only intellectually?

Technically, yes.

What do you mean by 'technically'?

[Age]

Are you speaking for "yourself" or are you attempting to speak for EVERY one forever more?

What's the difference?

One is just how you see things and therefore is just your view of things. The other is OBVIOUSLY NOT POSSIBLE, in regards to what you are CLAIMING.

We can only process so much information at a time [just a small sample of what reality is]. Our minds seem to be like a film where there are individual snapshots put together to make our movie.

Who or what, exactly, does the 'our' word refer to here?

Remember, I am the guy who says we cannot know anything. This is pure speculation based upon experience not intellect.

So what? Your response has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with the CLARIFYING question, which I posed to you. The question to you was, and STILL REMAINS, 'Who or what, exactly, does the 'our' word refer to here?'

What, exactly, are these 'minds' things, where, exactly, do they exist, and how, exactly, do they work?

What do you think?

It does NOT matter what I think. What I KNOW is what is REALLY IMPORTANT.

Now, are you ALSO NOT going to answer this CLARIFYING question, which I posed to you as well?

LOOK, you want to make the claim that; "We can ONLY do such and such" and that there are things as; "Our minds". So, I will, ONCE AGAIN, that if ANY one want to make CLAIMS, then it would be BEST, for them, that they have thee ACTUAL PROOF for their CLAIMS, BEFORE they make the CLAIM in the first place. Is this understood?

But this isn't anywhere close to what reality actually is [an infinite amount of information].

I agree wholeheartedly with you that what you said here is NOT anywhere even close to what 'Reality' ACTUALLY IS.

This is why there are those who believe that accessing the non-intellectual is the way to go. Instead of being at the disadvantage of having such a poor processor and missing out on so much information, the non-intellectual takes what our minds can observe and without attempting to fill in the blanks [discrimination and interpretation on a large scale].

If you did NOT answer the CLARIFYING questions above in regards to these "mind" things, which you talk about here, then we will WAIT for that.

Who is "we?"

The readers, and ANY one else who is Truly INTERESTED, OF COURSE.

Transition is only a word we humans made-up to somehow make sense of the words and ideas preceding, but none of them have any basis in reality.

LOL So 'you', human beings, make up words to make sense of the words that you have already made up. Sounds far more confusing, to me, than things need to be.

And, LOL ALL of those words that 'you', human beings, make up do NOT even have ANY basis in 'reality', anyway, which ALL sounds VERY UNNECESSARY, to me. But each to their own.

Yes, to each his own.

WHY did you turn this into a male gendered scenario ONLY?

[Dontaskme]

Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.

Something is Nothing. And Nothing is Something.

A contradiction is the same indistinguishable state, because nothing knows something, and something knows nothing.

.

As usual, you are not making any sense.

Oh my god, I just can't....

Well that's because you are trying to make sense of what can NEVER be made sense of.

But as long as you keep believing you can make sense of what you can never make sense of, then you'll just have to keep up the self-deceptive stance, and make up your own sense. It's pointless to even ask the question, when all you can ever do is eventually somehow, someway, make up your own answer.

If you don't know the answer to your own ''metaphysical'' question, then why on earth do you think 'others' are going to know? and where on earth do you think the 'others' will have got their answers from? do you think they would have got their answer from the same place you get your answers from... or do you think 'others' get their answers from somewhere else different to where you get your answers from?

But do continue, it does make for a facinating discussion about something and nothing.

I've got an idea bahman ...why don't you just first find out who wants to know, then perhaps your question will make sense to YOU

Perhaps when you can be bothered do your own homework, you will discover that you do not need to be such a cock about this. Newsflash, it's ususal to make no sense of nothing. Think about that first before damming.

[bahman]

If you EVER would like to delve into this FURTHER and DISCUSS this 'point', then I can PROVE to ANY one that because of the way thee One and ONLY Universe is RIGHT NOW, at ANY given point or moment, then this means that thee One and ONLY Universe could NOT be any different. Which also means the 'state of affair' could NOT be ANY thing ELSE.



But if you NEVER want to delve into this topic of discussion here, and just REMAIN with YOUR BELIEF ALONE, then PLEASE feel FREE TO. By you doing so is only PROVING another 'point' that I am more than happy to discuss over, AS WELL. The CHOICE is YOURS.

Oh, and by the way, considering the Fact that you are completely UNABLE to counter my CLAIM nor PROVE your BELIEF here, then if 'I' was 'you', then I would use that as a HINT and a GREAT LESSON to REMOVE the BELIEF and START becoming MORE OPEN to LISTENING and LEARNING MORE.

You still don't understand the difference between actual and possible.

WHY do you make so many ASSUMPTIONS, BEFORE you gain CLARIFICATION?

What is the difference between 'actual' and 'possible', to you.

Also, just maybe I do have some understanding of the difference between 'actual' and 'possible' and that is one of the reasons WHY I have written, what I ACTUALLY HAVE.

Anyway, you STILL have not yet even attempted to counter what I have said and written here.

I already mentioned what is the difference between actual and possible. Actual is the current state of affair whereas possible, all states of affair that could be the current state of affair.

AND, it is BECAUSE OF what exists NOW there is NO possible way that there could be ANOTHER 'state of affairs'. As I can VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY PROVE IRREFUTABLY True.

No. You are wrong.

LOL Is this all you can say here.

Are you at all able to PROVE your "No", and that "I am wrong"?

If yes, then will you?

If no, then WHY NOT?

You will be shown that you are wrong once you give the definition for actual and possible.

This all depends on what you are referring to, EXACTLY.

Also, and by the way, AGAIN, just because you BELIEVE some thing is true, and then write this BELIEF down, this does NOT, and I will repeat DOES NOT, necessarily make 'it' true AT ALL.

Did you read this AND comprehend this?



What it is IS; BECAUSE of what thee One and ONLY Universe is ESSENTIALLY and FUNDAMENTALLY made up of, and BECAUSE of how thee One and ONLY Universe ACTUALLY WORKS, this is WHY there could NEVER be ANY other possible 'world', NOR "state of affairs", as you say.

Once you learn and understand what thee One and ONLY Universe is made up and how It ACTUALLY WORKS, then you will also learn and understand the REASON AGAINST your 'possible world' theory or BELIEF.

Do you understand the difference between actual and possible?

I have an understanding. Do you understand the difference?

If yes, and you did not answer before, then what is the difference between 'actual' and 'possible'?

No, you don't know the difference. I already defined them.

For 'you', adult human beings, to firstly;
Become Truly responsible for your Wrong and ABUSIVE behaviors towards children, and then the 'world', by just being Truly Honest and OPEN by admitting the Wrong and ABUSE that you ALL do.
Secondly; Take responsibility by just seriously Wanting to CHANGE, for the better, for children's sake and doing this by doing EVERY thing you can to ACTUALLY CHANGE, for the better, for them.
Thirdly, STOP making ASSUMPTIONS and holding BELIEFS.

What do you want?

What are you talking about?

You asked me a question, I gave you my answer.

WHY will you NOT answer the questions I ask you?

You talk more than is needed.

But by holding BELIEFS, and thus NOT being OPEN, is ABSURDITY, itself, to the highest degree.

Also, INSTEAD of just saying, "I cannot be open to absurdity", how about you EXPLAIN what, EXACTLY, is absurd, to you, and then EXPLAIN how and why 'it' is absurd to you, then we will KNOW, for sure, what you are actually thinking about here.

Also, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of what happens and occurs when one has and holds BELIEFS. That is; they are just NOT OPEN to ANY thing contrary to their BELIEF, even if the contrary is what IS ACTUALLY and IRREFUTABLY True.

You don't understand my argument as usual. That is all.

LOL
LOL
LOL

What IS "your argument"?

This thread started with the question; "WHY is there something instead of nothing?"

What is there to 'argue' about here, EXACTLY?

And, in our discussion here most of it has just been about you BELIEVING that OTHER "worlds" and OTHER "state of affairs" could exist, which, by the way, is a COMPLETE DETRACTION from WHY there is something instead of nothing.

I am also trying to gain CLARIFICATION, from you, of WHY you CLAIM that there is NOT something, but STILL have proposed the question, "Why is there something instead of nothing?"

Read OP. I already gave the definition for possible and actual.

LOL

Your BELIEFS are STRIKINGLY CLEAR TO SEE HERE.

Now, YOUR CLAIM here is that I do NOT understand what 'infinity' means, but just be forewarned that what you think or BELIEVE is true is NOT necessarily true AT ALL. Just maybe I understand 'infinity', in relation to thee Universe, Itself, better or more than you do. We will just have to WAIT and SEE.

Tell me what does infinity means?

I can NOT tell you what the word 'infinity' means, as that is completely and utterly up to 'you'. But what I can do is provide you with the definition of the word 'infinity', from my perspective.

To me, the word 'infinity' means or refers to; the state or quality of being 'infinite'. With the word 'infinite' just meaning or referring to; limitless or endless .

Cannot you see that something that endless is unreachable?

Then tell me how we could reach from infinite past to now.

We ACTUALLY reach from so-called "infinite past" to NOW the EXACT SAME we reach from so-called "infinite after" from NOW.

There is NO ACTUAL past NOR after. What ONLY ACTUALLY exists is the NOW.

But, if you were thinking some thing different, like for example, How could what exists NOW be followed, or traced, backwards in the past to a point BEFORE some made up "beginning"? Then, this is ALSO EXTREMELY SIMPLE AND EASY to do.

Tell me how?

ONCE AGAIN, for the countless time, I neither BELIEVE nor DISBELIEVE ANY thing, including what YOU CLAIM here.

The ACTUAL WAY, "to reach from infinite past to now", is within the ACTUAL WORDS you just used here.

Do you understand the difference between finite and infinite?

I have an understanding. Do you have an understanding?

What is the difference?

One refers to what is limited while the other one refers to what is limitless, and, one refers to what began and ends while the other one refers to never beginning nor ending, or just endless.

If you are NOT YET AWARE which one is which here, then just let me KNOW and I will INFORM you, okay?

Cool. Given the definition you just need to think further to see that we cannot reach infinite while we can reach finit.

LOL
LOL
LOL

Is this the One and ONLY definition, which EVERY one HAS TO agree with AND accept?

Also, just because you can NOT reach some thing through thinking or UNDERSTANDING, does NOT mean that I am also UNABLE TO.

Once you learn and understand just what thee Universe ACTUALLY IS and how It ACTUALLY WORKS, then 'infinity', in relation to thee Universe, Itself, and NOW, is REACHED through thinking AND in understanding.

Also, just because some thing is finite does NOT mean that you can reach it. For example, can you reach the beginning of the finite earth?

If yes, then how, EXACTLY?

Or, can you even reach the beginning of the finite 'you'?

If yes, then how, EXACTLY?

It is not about if I can reach the beginning or not.

Well it was YOU who was the ONE who said and wrote: Infinity by definition is unreachable opposite to finite.

It is about the beginning and whether if we can reach from the beginning to now.

But there is NO beginning (and there was NO ending) in relation to thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself.

So, what does the word 'it' here refer to, EXACTLY, in YOUR CLAIM that " 'it' is about the beginning"?

And, what does "the beginning" of that 'it' refer to, EXACTLY?

Then we can LOOK AT and DISCUSS if we can reach "that beginning to now", which will OBVIOUSLY all depend on what you mean or refer to by the word 'reach'

It is not about the person waiting. It is about a process.

WHY did you say, " 'it' is not about the person waiting ", when NO has mentioned ANY thing about 'waiting' here? And, what does the 'it' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

Again it is not about a person who wait from infinite past to now. It is about the process of reaching from infinite past to now.

Here we have just MORE ATTEMPTS at DEFLECTION, and NO attempts at answering the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed to these people who BELIEVE the CLAIMS they make.

The reason WHY these people do NOT even attempt to answer the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS I pose to them is because if they did, Honestly, then they would CONTRADICT what they have previously stated and/or PROVE what they have previously stated is Wrong, False, or Incorrect.

Whatever.

Well this is EXACTLY what you are doing, and the EXACT reason WHY you are doing this. So, 'whatever' was the ONLY thing you could have said HERE-NOW.

You, OBVIOUSLY, could NOT refute what I have said and written here.

Of course I can.

[bahman]

Something is Nothing. And Nothing is Something.

A contradiction is the same indistinguishable state, because nothing knows something, and something knows nothing.

.

As usual, you are not making any sense.

Oh my god, I just can't....

Well that's because you are trying to make sense of what can NEVER be made sense of.

But as long as you keep believing you can make sense of what you can never make sense of, then you'll just have to keep up the self-deceptive stance, and make up your own sense. It's pointless to even ask the question, when all you can ever do is eventually somehow, someway, make up your own answer.

If you don't know the answer to your own ''metaphysical'' question, then why on earth do you think 'others' are going to know? and where on earth do you think the 'others' will have got their answers from? do you think they would have got their answer from the same place you get your answers from... or do you think 'others' get their answers from somewhere else different to where you get your answers from?

But do continue, it does make for a facinating discussion about something and nothing.

I've got an idea bahman ...why don't you just first find out who wants to know, then perhaps your question will make sense to YOU

Perhaps when you can be bothered do your own homework, you will discover that you do not need to be such a cock about this. Newsflash, it's ususal to make no sense of nothing. Think about that first before damming.

I have no time for your nonsense.

[Age]

You still don't understand the difference between actual and possible.

WHY do you make so many ASSUMPTIONS, BEFORE you gain CLARIFICATION?

What is the difference between 'actual' and 'possible', to you.

Also, just maybe I do have some understanding of the difference between 'actual' and 'possible' and that is one of the reasons WHY I have written, what I ACTUALLY HAVE.

Anyway, you STILL have not yet even attempted to counter what I have said and written here.

I already mentioned what is the difference between actual and possible. Actual is the current state of affair whereas possible, all states of affair that could be the current state of affair.

And, as I have ALREADY mentioned because of how thee One and ONLY Universe ACTUALLY WORKS there is NO possible way that there could be ANY other so-called "state of affair" other than the current 'state of affair'.

But because you are NOT YET OPEN to SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, which PROVES this as an IRREFUTABLY Fact, you will NEVER understand this.

Oh, by the way, you are NOT YET OPEN because you STILL BELIEVE some things are true, BEFORE you gain ACTUAL CLARIFICATION.

No. You are wrong.

LOL Is this all you can say here.

Are you at all able to PROVE your "No", and that "I am wrong"?

If yes, then will you?

If no, then WHY NOT?

You will be shown that you are wrong once you give the definition for actual and possible.

But I have A definition for those two words, which, by the way, FURTHER PROVES what I have been saying and claiming. You do NOT YET UNDERSTAND that it is an IMPOSSIBILITY for thee ACTUAL Universe to be ANY different from what It IS at EVERY current moment, and this is BECAUSE of the way thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Also, and by the way, you STILL have NOT YET COMPREHENDED that there is NO 'the' definition for ANY word, unless, of course, EVERY one agrees with and accepts 'that' definition. What ACTUALLY exists is 'a' definition, 'the' definition is VERY, VERY RARE.

Do you understand the difference between actual and possible?

I have an understanding. Do you understand the difference?

If yes, and you did not answer before, then what is the difference between 'actual' and 'possible'?

No, you don't know the difference. I already defined them.

How do you, supposedly, KNOW that I do NOT know the difference if I have NEVER INFORMED you of what the difference is, to me?

Yes, you defined the difference in this post only.

The reason you are SO CONFUSED and HAVE a COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING is BECAUSE you do NOT YET UNDERSTAND that it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be POSSIBLE other 'state of affairs'. And because there can NOT be ANY other 'state of affair', there is NO POSSIBLE CHANCE that 'your' definition here of 'possible', that is; all states of affair that could be the current state of affair. could even exist.

OF COURSE the word 'possible' works in regards to OTHER things, BUT BECAUSE of the way thee Universe, Itself, WORKS the word 'possible' does NOT work in relation to thee Universe, Itself.

What are you talking about?

You asked me a question, I gave you my answer.

WHY will you NOT answer the questions I ask you?

You talk more than is needed.

Then, just ask the SPECIFIC CLARIFYING question, that you want to hear.

By the way, I DECIDED how much or how little I say and talk about, in regards to what is ACTUALLY 'needed', NOT you.

Also, I could say that you are CLOSED FAR MORE than is NEEDED to be. But, OF COURSE, only 'you' DECIDE how CLOSED or how OPEN you WANT TO BE.

You don't understand my argument as usual. That is all.

LOL
LOL
LOL

What IS "your argument"?

This thread started with the question; "WHY is there something instead of nothing?"

What is there to 'argue' about here, EXACTLY?

And, in our discussion here most of it has just been about you BELIEVING that OTHER "worlds" and OTHER "state of affairs" could exist, which, by the way, is a COMPLETE DETRACTION from WHY there is something instead of nothing.

I am also trying to gain CLARIFICATION, from you, of WHY you CLAIM that there is NOT something, but STILL have proposed the question, "Why is there something instead of nothing?"

Read OP. I already gave the definition for possible and actual.

LOL
LOL
LOL

AGAIN, ANOTHER ATTEMPT AT DEFLECTION.

ONCE MORE, WHY do you CLAIM that is NOT 'something', but STILL ask the question, "Why is there something instead of nothing?"

Oh, and by the way, AND AGAIN, there is NO ACTUAL 'the' definition, in relation to EVERY one. But anyway, 'the' definition that you ALREADY GAVE does, IN NO WAY, make what you are CLAIMING here true AT ALL, let alone ANY more true.

What you are CLAIMING here about the POSSIBLY 'could be' other 'state of affairs' in relation to thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself, is just plain old False, Wrong, and Incorrect. Which, you will KNOW and UNDERSTAND, if you EVER learn AND understand HOW thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Tell me what does infinity means?

I can NOT tell you what the word 'infinity' means, as that is completely and utterly up to 'you'. But what I can do is provide you with the definition of the word 'infinity', from my perspective.

To me, the word 'infinity' means or refers to; the state or quality of being 'infinite'. With the word 'infinite' just meaning or referring to; limitless or endless .

Cannot you see that something that endless is unreachable?

From the perspective of the physical human brain and body, themselves, then YES I CAN SEE that 'you', human beings, can NOT reach what is endless.

However,

From the perspective of the Mind, Itself, then being able to reach what is APPARENTLY "endless" is an EXTREMELY EASY and SIMPLE thing to do.

LOOK, just because 'infinity', in terms of say number counting for example, can NOT be reached does NOT then mean that one could instantly then make a 'logical conclusion' that the Universe therefore MUST OF BEGAN.

To do so is ABSURD, RIDICULOUS, ILLOGICAL, and NONSENSICAL, to the extreme, in my perspective. All you are doing here, to me, is just 'trying to' find ANY thing, which fits in with and suits your ALREADY OBTAINED and WELL-MAINTAINED BELIEF that the Universe did BEGIN.

Then tell me how we could reach from infinite past to now.

We ACTUALLY reach from so-called "infinite past" to NOW the EXACT SAME we reach from so-called "infinite after" from NOW.

There is NO ACTUAL past NOR after. What ONLY ACTUALLY exists is the NOW.

But, if you were thinking some thing different, like for example, How could what exists NOW be followed, or traced, backwards in the past to a point BEFORE some made up "beginning"? Then, this is ALSO EXTREMELY SIMPLE AND EASY to do.

Tell me how?

By just LOOKING PAST what you ASSUME and/or BELIEVE is "the beginning". And, by UNDERSTANDING that it is an ACTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY for ANY thing to BEGIN from absolutely NO thing AT ALL.

That is for starters, we can then move on from there. But let us SEE if you can SEE and UNDERSTAND what I have just said and wrote here FIRST.

And, if you do NOT agree with or accept this, then INSTEAD of just saying, "No, you are wrong", how about you TELL and INFORM us of EXACTLY 'what is wrong' and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW and WHY 'it' is Wrong.

Or, if you like you can INSTEAD just PROVE how your view is True, Right, and Correct, then this will be "end of story", as some say.

Do you understand the difference between finite and infinite?

I have an understanding. Do you have an understanding?

What is the difference?

One refers to what is limited while the other one refers to what is limitless, and, one refers to what began and ends while the other one refers to never beginning nor ending, or just endless.

If you are NOT YET AWARE which one is which here, then just let me KNOW and I will INFORM you, okay?

Cool. Given the definition you just need to think further to see that we cannot reach infinite while we can reach finit.

LOL

You seem to be under some sort of illusion that thee Universe, Itself, HAS TO BE and WORK IN a way that suits and fits in with 'you', human beings, and with the 'you' LOOK AT and SEE things. Which is even MORE LAUGHABLE the MORE I LOOK AT this.

It is not about if I can reach the beginning or not.

Well it was YOU who was the ONE who said and wrote: Infinity by definition is unreachable opposite to finite.

It is about the beginning and whether if we can reach from the beginning to now.

But there is NO beginning (and there was NO ending) in relation to thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself.

So, what does the word 'it' here refer to, EXACTLY, in YOUR CLAIM that " 'it' is about the beginning"?

And, what does "the beginning" of that 'it' refer to, EXACTLY?

Then we can LOOK AT and DISCUSS if we can reach "that beginning to now", which will OBVIOUSLY all depend on what you mean or refer to by the word 'reach'

It is not about the person waiting. It is about a process.

WHY did you say, " 'it' is not about the person waiting ", when NO has mentioned ANY thing about 'waiting' here? And, what does the 'it' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

Again it is not about a person who wait from infinite past to now. It is about the process of reaching from infinite past to now.

Are you REALLY as STUPID as the words you write here, or are you just PRETENDING to be STUPID? Or, maybe you are just 'trying to' DEFLECT, AGAIN?

1. I just got through asking you to CLARIFY what the 'it' word refers to, EXACTLY, AND THEN you go and use and write the 'it' word AGAIN, which I STILL do NOT YET KNOW what, literally, 'it', refers to.

2. You NEVER CLARIFIED ANY of the CLARIFYING questions I ask you in regards to what you HAD said, and then you go and write more or less the EXACT SAME thing, AGAIN.

3. The process of: 'reaching from the so-called "infinite past to now",' or better worded 'reaching from 'infinite' to 'now',' is EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY. That is; ONCE you KNOW HOW to do it.

4. NO one, besides you, has mentioned ANY thing about "a person WAITING from infinite past to now". So, WHY you CONTINUE with this ABSURDITY? Especially, since I INFORMED you PREVIOUSLY that I have NEVER even imagined it, let alone talked about it.

Whatever.

Well this is EXACTLY what you are doing, and the EXACT reason WHY you are doing this. So, 'whatever' was the ONLY thing you could have said HERE-NOW.

You, OBVIOUSLY, could NOT refute what I have said and written here.

Of course I can.

Well DO IT.

Once you do it, then this will be "the end", OBVIOUSLY.

Do you REALLY NOT YET KNOW or UNDERSTAND that once some thing is REFUTED, then it could NEVER even be DISPUTED logically EVERY AGAIN, let alone DISPROVED? Or, that once some thing, which was said and written, is IRREFUTABLE it is FOREVER MORE PROVED True, Right, and/or Correct?

[bahman]

WHY do you make so many ASSUMPTIONS, BEFORE you gain CLARIFICATION?

What is the difference between 'actual' and 'possible', to you.

Also, just maybe I do have some understanding of the difference between 'actual' and 'possible' and that is one of the reasons WHY I have written, what I ACTUALLY HAVE.

Anyway, you STILL have not yet even attempted to counter what I have said and written here.

I already mentioned what is the difference between actual and possible. Actual is the current state of affair whereas possible, all states of affair that could be the current state of affair.

And, as I have ALREADY mentioned because of how thee One and ONLY Universe ACTUALLY WORKS there is NO possible way that there could be ANY other so-called "state of affair" other than the current 'state of affair'.

But because you are NOT YET OPEN to SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, which PROVES this as an IRREFUTABLY Fact, you will NEVER understand this.

Oh, by the way, you are NOT YET OPEN because you STILL BELIEVE some things are true, BEFORE you gain ACTUAL CLARIFICATION.

That is not really an argument (bold part). Because the universe is like this now it does not mean it could be different.

LOL Is this all you can say here.

Are you at all able to PROVE your "No", and that "I am wrong"?

If yes, then will you?

If no, then WHY NOT?

You will be shown that you are wrong once you give the definition for actual and possible.

But I have A definition for those two words, which, by the way, FURTHER PROVES what I have been saying and claiming. You do NOT YET UNDERSTAND that it is an IMPOSSIBILITY for thee ACTUAL Universe to be ANY different from what It IS at EVERY current moment, and this is BECAUSE of the way thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Also, and by the way, you STILL have NOT YET COMPREHENDED that there is NO 'the' definition for ANY word, unless, of course, EVERY one agrees with and accepts 'that' definition. What ACTUALLY exists is 'a' definition, 'the' definition is VERY, VERY RARE.

Where did you define the two words?

I have an understanding. Do you understand the difference?

If yes, and you did not answer before, then what is the difference between 'actual' and 'possible'?

No, you don't know the difference. I already defined them.

How do you, supposedly, KNOW that I do NOT know the difference if I have NEVER INFORMED you of what the difference is, to me?

Yes, you defined the difference in this post only.

The reason you are SO CONFUSED and HAVE a COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING is BECAUSE you do NOT YET UNDERSTAND that it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be POSSIBLE other 'state of affairs'. And because there can NOT be ANY other 'state of affair', there is NO POSSIBLE CHANCE that 'your' definition here of 'possible', that is; all states of affair that could be the current state of affair. could even exist.

OF COURSE the word 'possible' works in regards to OTHER things, BUT BECAUSE of the way thee Universe, Itself, WORKS the word 'possible' does NOT work in relation to thee Universe, Itself.

You are confused. I am getting convinced that I am wasting my time.

You asked me a question, I gave you my answer.

WHY will you NOT answer the questions I ask you?

You talk more than is needed.

Then, just ask the SPECIFIC CLARIFYING question, that you want to hear.

By the way, I DECIDED how much or how little I say and talk about, in regards to what is ACTUALLY 'needed', NOT you.

Also, I could say that you are CLOSED FAR MORE than is NEEDED to be. But, OF COURSE, only 'you' DECIDE how CLOSED or how OPEN you WANT TO BE.

Do you agree with my definition of actual and possible?

LOL
LOL
LOL

What IS "your argument"?

This thread started with the question; "WHY is there something instead of nothing?"

What is there to 'argue' about here, EXACTLY?

And, in our discussion here most of it has just been about you BELIEVING that OTHER "worlds" and OTHER "state of affairs" could exist, which, by the way, is a COMPLETE DETRACTION from WHY there is something instead of nothing.

I am also trying to gain CLARIFICATION, from you, of WHY you CLAIM that there is NOT something, but STILL have proposed the question, "Why is there something instead of nothing?"

Read OP. I already gave the definition for possible and actual.

LOL
LOL
LOL

AGAIN, ANOTHER ATTEMPT AT DEFLECTION.

ONCE MORE, WHY do you CLAIM that is NOT 'something', but STILL ask the question, "Why is there something instead of nothing?"

Oh, and by the way, AND AGAIN, there is NO ACTUAL 'the' definition, in relation to EVERY one. But anyway, 'the' definition that you ALREADY GAVE does, IN NO WAY, make what you are CLAIMING here true AT ALL, let alone ANY more true.

What you are CLAIMING here about the POSSIBLY 'could be' other 'state of affairs' in relation to thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself, is just plain old False, Wrong, and Incorrect. Which, you will KNOW and UNDERSTAND, if you EVER learn AND understand HOW thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Read OP and think through. Could you possibly exist not? For example, your parents didn't decide to have you?

I can NOT tell you what the word 'infinity' means, as that is completely and utterly up to 'you'. But what I can do is provide you with the definition of the word 'infinity', from my perspective.

To me, the word 'infinity' means or refers to; the state or quality of being 'infinite'. With the word 'infinite' just meaning or referring to; limitless or endless .

Cannot you see that something that endless is unreachable?

From the perspective of the physical human brain and body, themselves, then YES I CAN SEE that 'you', human beings, can NOT reach what is endless.

However,

From the perspective of the Mind, Itself, then being able to reach what is APPARENTLY "endless" is an EXTREMELY EASY and SIMPLE thing to do.

LOOK, just because 'infinity', in terms of say number counting for example, can NOT be reached does NOT then mean that one could instantly then make a 'logical conclusion' that the Universe therefore MUST OF BEGAN.

To do so is ABSURD, RIDICULOUS, ILLOGICAL, and NONSENSICAL, to the extreme, in my perspective. All you are doing here, to me, is just 'trying to' find ANY thing, which fits in with and suits your ALREADY OBTAINED and WELL-MAINTAINED BELIEF that the Universe did BEGIN.

I am not talking about humans. I am talking about a process with no end which is unreachable.

We ACTUALLY reach from so-called "infinite past" to NOW the EXACT SAME we reach from so-called "infinite after" from NOW.

There is NO ACTUAL past NOR after. What ONLY ACTUALLY exists is the NOW.

But, if you were thinking some thing different, like for example, How could what exists NOW be followed, or traced, backwards in the past to a point BEFORE some made up "beginning"? Then, this is ALSO EXTREMELY SIMPLE AND EASY to do.

Tell me how?

By just LOOKING PAST what you ASSUME and/or BELIEVE is "the beginning". And, by UNDERSTANDING that it is an ACTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY for ANY thing to BEGIN from absolutely NO thing AT ALL.

That is for starters, we can then move on from there. But let us SEE if you can SEE and UNDERSTAND what I have just said and wrote here FIRST.

And, if you do NOT agree with or accept this, then INSTEAD of just saying, "No, you are wrong", how about you TELL and INFORM us of EXACTLY 'what is wrong' and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW and WHY 'it' is Wrong.

Or, if you like you can INSTEAD just PROVE how your view is True, Right, and Correct, then this will be "end of story", as some say.

You are trapped because you think that nothing comes out of nothing and there must be nothing at the beginning.

I have an understanding. Do you have an understanding?

One refers to what is limited while the other one refers to what is limitless, and, one refers to what began and ends while the other one refers to never beginning nor ending, or just endless.

If you are NOT YET AWARE which one is which here, then just let me KNOW and I will INFORM you, okay?

Cool. Given the definition you just need to think further to see that we cannot reach infinite while we can reach finit.

LOL

You seem to be under some sort of illusion that thee Universe, Itself, HAS TO BE and WORK IN a way that suits and fits in with 'you', human beings, and with the 'you' LOOK AT and SEE things. Which is even MORE LAUGHABLE the MORE I LOOK AT this.

These words apply to you better.

Well it was YOU who was the ONE who said and wrote: Infinity by definition is unreachable opposite to finite.




But there is NO beginning (and there was NO ending) in relation to thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself.

So, what does the word 'it' here refer to, EXACTLY, in YOUR CLAIM that " 'it' is about the beginning"?

And, what does "the beginning" of that 'it' refer to, EXACTLY?

Then we can LOOK AT and DISCUSS if we can reach "that beginning to now", which will OBVIOUSLY all depend on what you mean or refer to by the word 'reach'


WHY did you say, " 'it' is not about the person waiting ", when NO has mentioned ANY thing about 'waiting' here? And, what does the 'it' word here refer to, EXACTLY?

Again it is not about a person who wait from infinite past to now. It is about the process of reaching from infinite past to now.

Are you REALLY as STUPID as the words you write here, or are you just PRETENDING to be STUPID? Or, maybe you are just 'trying to' DEFLECT, AGAIN?

1. I just got through asking you to CLARIFY what the 'it' word refers to, EXACTLY, AND THEN you go and use and write the 'it' word AGAIN, which I STILL do NOT YET KNOW what, literally, 'it', refers to.

2. You NEVER CLARIFIED ANY of the CLARIFYING questions I ask you in regards to what you HAD said, and then you go and write more or less the EXACT SAME thing, AGAIN.

3. The process of: 'reaching from the so-called "infinite past to now",' or better worded 'reaching from 'infinite' to 'now',' is EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY. That is; ONCE you KNOW HOW to do it.

4. NO one, besides you, has mentioned ANY thing about "a person WAITING from infinite past to now". So, WHY you CONTINUE with this ABSURDITY? Especially, since I INFORMED you PREVIOUSLY that I have NEVER even imagined it, let alone talked about it.

No. The process of reaching from the infinite past to now is logically impossible.

Well this is EXACTLY what you are doing, and the EXACT reason WHY you are doing this. So, 'whatever' was the ONLY thing you could have said HERE-NOW.

You, OBVIOUSLY, could NOT refute what I have said and written here.

Of course I can.

Well DO IT.

Once you do it, then this will be "the end", OBVIOUSLY.

Do you REALLY NOT YET KNOW or UNDERSTAND that once some thing is REFUTED, then it could NEVER even be DISPUTED logically EVERY AGAIN, let alone DISPROVED? Or, that once some thing, which was said and written, is IRREFUTABLE it is FOREVER MORE PROVED True, Right, and/or Correct?

Let's see if this round will do the job.

[simplicity]

WHY did you turn this into a male gendered scenario ONLY?

I must confess...I was sent here by the Council of Male Hierarchical Galaxies in order to spread our doctrine that only men should rule over the Universe.

Was your question serious?

[Age]

I already mentioned what is the difference between actual and possible. Actual is the current state of affair whereas possible, all states of affair that could be the current state of affair.

And, as I have ALREADY mentioned because of how thee One and ONLY Universe ACTUALLY WORKS there is NO possible way that there could be ANY other so-called "state of affair" other than the current 'state of affair'.

But because you are NOT YET OPEN to SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, which PROVES this as an IRREFUTABLY Fact, you will NEVER understand this.

Oh, by the way, you are NOT YET OPEN because you STILL BELIEVE some things are true, BEFORE you gain ACTUAL CLARIFICATION.

That is not really an argument (bold part).

I KNOW.

I only begin to 'argue' when, and IF, people SHOW INTEREST.

Because the universe is like this now it does not mean it could be different.

I KNOW because the Universe is like this now to does not mean it could be different.

Because the Universe is the way It IS, and works the way It does, ALWAYS NOW, this MEANS that thee Universe could NOT be DIFFERENT than what It IS, at ANY and EVERY moment of NOW.

You will be shown that you are wrong once you give the definition for actual and possible.

But I have A definition for those two words, which, by the way, FURTHER PROVES what I have been saying and claiming. You do NOT YET UNDERSTAND that it is an IMPOSSIBILITY for thee ACTUAL Universe to be ANY different from what It IS at EVERY current moment, and this is BECAUSE of the way thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Also, and by the way, you STILL have NOT YET COMPREHENDED that there is NO 'the' definition for ANY word, unless, of course, EVERY one agrees with and accepts 'that' definition. What ACTUALLY exists is 'a' definition, 'the' definition is VERY, VERY RARE.

Where did you define the two words?

I NEVER said I did.

Were you ASSUMING I did?

No, you don't know the difference. I already defined them.

How do you, supposedly, KNOW that I do NOT know the difference if I have NEVER INFORMED you of what the difference is, to me?

Yes, you defined the difference in this post only.

The reason you are SO CONFUSED and HAVE a COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING is BECAUSE you do NOT YET UNDERSTAND that it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be POSSIBLE other 'state of affairs'. And because there can NOT be ANY other 'state of affair', there is NO POSSIBLE CHANCE that 'your' definition here of 'possible', that is; all states of affair that could be the current state of affair. could even exist.

OF COURSE the word 'possible' works in regards to OTHER things, BUT BECAUSE of the way thee Universe, Itself, WORKS the word 'possible' does NOT work in relation to thee Universe, Itself.

You are confused. I am getting convinced that I am wasting my time.

If you are spending your time EXPECTING me to BELIEVE or to ACCEPT that what you are saying and claiming here is either true or absolutely true, then I will INFORM you IRREFUTABLY that you ARE WASTING your time.

You talk more than is needed.

Then, just ask the SPECIFIC CLARIFYING question, that you want to hear.

By the way, I DECIDED how much or how little I say and talk about, in regards to what is ACTUALLY 'needed', NOT you.

Also, I could say that you are CLOSED FAR MORE than is NEEDED to be. But, OF COURSE, only 'you' DECIDE how CLOSED or how OPEN you WANT TO BE.

Do you agree with my definition of actual and possible?

YES.

And, as I have ALREADY PREVIOUSLY STATED that definition FURTHER PROVES what I have been saying and claiming True.

Read OP. I already gave the definition for possible and actual.

LOL
LOL
LOL

AGAIN, ANOTHER ATTEMPT AT DEFLECTION.

ONCE MORE, WHY do you CLAIM that is NOT 'something', but STILL ask the question, "Why is there something instead of nothing?"

Oh, and by the way, AND AGAIN, there is NO ACTUAL 'the' definition, in relation to EVERY one. But anyway, 'the' definition that you ALREADY GAVE does, IN NO WAY, make what you are CLAIMING here true AT ALL, let alone ANY more true.

What you are CLAIMING here about the POSSIBLY 'could be' other 'state of affairs' in relation to thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself, is just plain old False, Wrong, and Incorrect. Which, you will KNOW and UNDERSTAND, if you EVER learn AND understand HOW thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Read OP and think through. Could you possibly exist not? For example, your parents didn't decide to have you?

I have read YOUR opening post here AGAIN. I STILL WONDER WHY you AGREE that there is NOT 'something', but STILL question, "Why is there something instead of nothing"?

You asking, "Could you possibly exist not?" is NONSENSICAL as when you asked, "Why there is something instead of nothing?"

Look, a lot of your views are just plain False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect to begin with, let alone 'trying to' decipher what your words are saying or asking in "english".

If, here, you are asking me, 'Could you possibly exist, if your parents did not decide to have you?' Then the answer is Yes.

But this will only DETRACT from the point in which you are 'trying to' make here, correct?

Cannot you see that something that endless is unreachable?

From the perspective of the physical human brain and body, themselves, then YES I CAN SEE that 'you', human beings, can NOT reach what is endless.

However,

From the perspective of the Mind, Itself, then being able to reach what is APPARENTLY "endless" is an EXTREMELY EASY and SIMPLE thing to do.

LOOK, just because 'infinity', in terms of say number counting for example, can NOT be reached does NOT then mean that one could instantly then make a 'logical conclusion' that the Universe therefore MUST OF BEGAN.

To do so is ABSURD, RIDICULOUS, ILLOGICAL, and NONSENSICAL, to the extreme, in my perspective. All you are doing here, to me, is just 'trying to' find ANY thing, which fits in with and suits your ALREADY OBTAINED and WELL-MAINTAINED BELIEF that the Universe did BEGIN.

I am not talking about humans. I am talking about a process with no end which is unreachable.

Well if a process has no end, then, obviously, THE PROCESS is unreachable.

However, if ANY one was to LOOK BACK, then what can be CLEARLY SEEN are the words that you have ACTUALLY used and written here. Which could completely contradict your claim now that you were NOT talking about humans.

Tell me how?

By just LOOKING PAST what you ASSUME and/or BELIEVE is "the beginning". And, by UNDERSTANDING that it is an ACTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY for ANY thing to BEGIN from absolutely NO thing AT ALL.

That is for starters, we can then move on from there. But let us SEE if you can SEE and UNDERSTAND what I have just said and wrote here FIRST.

And, if you do NOT agree with or accept this, then INSTEAD of just saying, "No, you are wrong", how about you TELL and INFORM us of EXACTLY 'what is wrong' and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW and WHY 'it' is Wrong.

Or, if you like you can INSTEAD just PROVE how your view is True, Right, and Correct, then this will be "end of story", as some say.

You are trapped because you think that nothing comes out of nothing and there must be nothing at the beginning.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You could not be MORE Wrong and MORE off track and topic here ANYMORE.

I have NEVER thought that "nothing comes out of nothing", and I have NEVER thought that "there must be nothing at the beginning".

Do you EVER recall me advising that if one wants to make a CLAIM, then it would be much better for them if they had thee ACTUAL PROOF BEFORE they make the CLAIM in the first place, or that it is best if wants seeks and gains CLARITY BEFORE they make ANY ASSUMPTION, AT ALL?

If yes, then okay.

But if no, then okay.

By the way, it is you who thinks or BELIEVES that EVERY thing came from NOTHING correct?

If no, then what do you think or BELIEVE here?

Cool. Given the definition you just need to think further to see that we cannot reach infinite while we can reach finit.

LOL

You seem to be under some sort of illusion that thee Universe, Itself, HAS TO BE and WORK IN a way that suits and fits in with 'you', human beings, and with the 'you' LOOK AT and SEE things. Which is even MORE LAUGHABLE the MORE I LOOK AT this.

These words apply to you better.

HOW and WHY, EXACTLY?

Let us SEE if you are REALLY able to back up and support YOUR CLAIMS here.

Again it is not about a person who wait from infinite past to now. It is about the process of reaching from infinite past to now.

Are you REALLY as STUPID as the words you write here, or are you just PRETENDING to be STUPID? Or, maybe you are just 'trying to' DEFLECT, AGAIN?

1. I just got through asking you to CLARIFY what the 'it' word refers to, EXACTLY, AND THEN you go and use and write the 'it' word AGAIN, which I STILL do NOT YET KNOW what, literally, 'it', refers to.

2. You NEVER CLARIFIED ANY of the CLARIFYING questions I ask you in regards to what you HAD said, and then you go and write more or less the EXACT SAME thing, AGAIN.

3. The process of: 'reaching from the so-called "infinite past to now",' or better worded 'reaching from 'infinite' to 'now',' is EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY. That is; ONCE you KNOW HOW to do it.

4. NO one, besides you, has mentioned ANY thing about "a person WAITING from infinite past to now". So, WHY you CONTINUE with this ABSURDITY? Especially, since I INFORMED you PREVIOUSLY that I have NEVER even imagined it, let alone talked about it.

No. The process of reaching from the infinite past to now is logically impossible.

LOL

I can do it AND have, ALREADY, done it.

And, I have done it in a way, that is Truly SO SIMPLE and SO EASY to do.

Of course I can.

Well DO IT.

Once you do it, then this will be "the end", OBVIOUSLY.

Do you REALLY NOT YET KNOW or UNDERSTAND that once some thing is REFUTED, then it could NEVER even be DISPUTED logically EVERY AGAIN, let alone DISPROVED? Or, that once some thing, which was said and written, is IRREFUTABLE it is FOREVER MORE PROVED True, Right, and/or Correct?

Let's see if this round will do the job.

LOL

You OBVIOUSLY have NOT YET REFUTED what I have been saying here.

[Age]

WHY did you turn this into a male gendered scenario ONLY?

I must confess...I was sent here by the Council of Male Hierarchical Galaxies in order to spread our doctrine that only men should rule over the Universe.

Was your question serious?

VERY SERIOUS.

WHY are 'you', adult male gendered human beings, so male centric that you ACTUALLY continue to anthropomorphize things, and do so while adding male gender to them if you think or BELIEVE that those things are more powerful or more superior than other things are?

The MAIN reason 'God' is just referred to as a "he" is because when bibles or scripture texts were first written they were written by male human beings, and in the days when those stories were being made up and written the male of the human being, LAUGHABLY, ACTUALLY BELIEVED that is was more powerful, more smarter, and more superior to "others". And, the MOST RIDICULOUS part of this is that there STILL REMAINS, in the days when this was being written, some male human beings who STILL BELIEVED that they are the more superior, more powerful, and more smarter of the species.

LOL If only they KNEW.

[bahman]

And, as I have ALREADY mentioned because of how thee One and ONLY Universe ACTUALLY WORKS there is NO possible way that there could be ANY other so-called "state of affair" other than the current 'state of affair'.

But because you are NOT YET OPEN to SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, which PROVES this as an IRREFUTABLY Fact, you will NEVER understand this.

Oh, by the way, you are NOT YET OPEN because you STILL BELIEVE some things are true, BEFORE you gain ACTUAL CLARIFICATION.

That is not really an argument (bold part).

I KNOW.

I only begin to 'argue' when, and IF, people SHOW INTEREST.

Ok, I am interested.

Because the universe is like this now it does not mean it could be different.

I KNOW because the Universe is like this now to does not mean it could be different.

Because the Universe is the way It IS, and works the way It does, ALWAYS NOW, this MEANS that thee Universe could NOT be DIFFERENT than what It IS, at ANY and EVERY moment of NOW.

I should have said, "Because the universe is like this now it does not mean it could not be different."

But I have A definition for those two words, which, by the way, FURTHER PROVES what I have been saying and claiming. You do NOT YET UNDERSTAND that it is an IMPOSSIBILITY for thee ACTUAL Universe to be ANY different from what It IS at EVERY current moment, and this is BECAUSE of the way thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Also, and by the way, you STILL have NOT YET COMPREHENDED that there is NO 'the' definition for ANY word, unless, of course, EVERY one agrees with and accepts 'that' definition. What ACTUALLY exists is 'a' definition, 'the' definition is VERY, VERY RARE.

Where did you define the two words?

I NEVER said I did.

Were you ASSUMING I did?

Cool. So you agree with my definition of actual and possible?

How do you, supposedly, KNOW that I do NOT know the difference if I have NEVER INFORMED you of what the difference is, to me?

Yes, you defined the difference in this post only.

The reason you are SO CONFUSED and HAVE a COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING is BECAUSE you do NOT YET UNDERSTAND that it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be POSSIBLE other 'state of affairs'. And because there can NOT be ANY other 'state of affair', there is NO POSSIBLE CHANCE that 'your' definition here of 'possible', that is; all states of affair that could be the current state of affair. could even exist.

OF COURSE the word 'possible' works in regards to OTHER things, BUT BECAUSE of the way thee Universe, Itself, WORKS the word 'possible' does NOT work in relation to thee Universe, Itself.

You are confused. I am getting convinced that I am wasting my time.

If you are spending your time EXPECTING me to BELIEVE or to ACCEPT that what you are saying and claiming here is either true or absolutely true, then I will INFORM you IRREFUTABLY that you ARE WASTING your time.

Let's start with the definition of possible. If something is possible (like possible universes) then it means it could exist. Could we agree on this? If yes, then the universe could be different.

Then, just ask the SPECIFIC CLARIFYING question, that you want to hear.

By the way, I DECIDED how much or how little I say and talk about, in regards to what is ACTUALLY 'needed', NOT you.

Also, I could say that you are CLOSED FAR MORE than is NEEDED to be. But, OF COURSE, only 'you' DECIDE how CLOSED or how OPEN you WANT TO BE.

Do you agree with my definition of actual and possible?

YES.

And, as I have ALREADY PREVIOUSLY STATED that definition FURTHER PROVES what I have been saying and claiming True.

No, you are wrong.

LOL
LOL
LOL

AGAIN, ANOTHER ATTEMPT AT DEFLECTION.

ONCE MORE, WHY do you CLAIM that is NOT 'something', but STILL ask the question, "Why is there something instead of nothing?"

Oh, and by the way, AND AGAIN, there is NO ACTUAL 'the' definition, in relation to EVERY one. But anyway, 'the' definition that you ALREADY GAVE does, IN NO WAY, make what you are CLAIMING here true AT ALL, let alone ANY more true.

What you are CLAIMING here about the POSSIBLY 'could be' other 'state of affairs' in relation to thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself, is just plain old False, Wrong, and Incorrect. Which, you will KNOW and UNDERSTAND, if you EVER learn AND understand HOW thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Read OP and think through. Could you possibly exist not? For example, your parents didn't decide to have you?

I have read YOUR opening post here AGAIN. I STILL WONDER WHY you AGREE that there is NOT 'something', but STILL question, "Why is there something instead of nothing"?

You asking, "Could you possibly exist not?" is NONSENSICAL as when you asked, "Why there is something instead of nothing?"

Look, a lot of your views are just plain False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect to begin with, let alone 'trying to' decipher what your words are saying or asking in "english".

If, here, you are asking me, 'Could you possibly exist, if your parents did not decide to have you?' Then the answer is Yes.

But this will only DETRACT from the point in which you are 'trying to' make here, correct?

No. That is the meaning of possibility. You were a possibility which means that you could exist. That is different from being necessary which means that you should exist. You are however actual which means that you only exist.

From the perspective of the physical human brain and body, themselves, then YES I CAN SEE that 'you', human beings, can NOT reach what is endless.

However,

From the perspective of the Mind, Itself, then being able to reach what is APPARENTLY "endless" is an EXTREMELY EASY and SIMPLE thing to do.

LOOK, just because 'infinity', in terms of say number counting for example, can NOT be reached does NOT then mean that one could instantly then make a 'logical conclusion' that the Universe therefore MUST OF BEGAN.

To do so is ABSURD, RIDICULOUS, ILLOGICAL, and NONSENSICAL, to the extreme, in my perspective. All you are doing here, to me, is just 'trying to' find ANY thing, which fits in with and suits your ALREADY OBTAINED and WELL-MAINTAINED BELIEF that the Universe did BEGIN.

I am not talking about humans. I am talking about a process with no end which is unreachable.

Well if a process has no end, then, obviously, THE PROCESS is unreachable.

However, if ANY one was to LOOK BACK, then what can be CLEARLY SEEN are the words that you have ACTUALLY used and written here. Which could completely contradict your claim now that you were NOT talking about humans.

So you agree that the end of a process with no end cannot be reached? If yes, then there is no process that started without any starting. Therefore, the universe has a beginning.

By just LOOKING PAST what you ASSUME and/or BELIEVE is "the beginning". And, by UNDERSTANDING that it is an ACTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY for ANY thing to BEGIN from absolutely NO thing AT ALL.

That is for starters, we can then move on from there. But let us SEE if you can SEE and UNDERSTAND what I have just said and wrote here FIRST.

And, if you do NOT agree with or accept this, then INSTEAD of just saying, "No, you are wrong", how about you TELL and INFORM us of EXACTLY 'what is wrong' and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW and WHY 'it' is Wrong.

Or, if you like you can INSTEAD just PROVE how your view is True, Right, and Correct, then this will be "end of story", as some say.

You are trapped because you think that nothing comes out of nothing and there must be nothing at the beginning.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You could not be MORE Wrong and MORE off track and topic here ANYMORE.

I have NEVER thought that "nothing comes out of nothing", and I have NEVER thought that "there must be nothing at the beginning".

Do you EVER recall me advising that if one wants to make a CLAIM, then it would be much better for them if they had thee ACTUAL PROOF BEFORE they make the CLAIM in the first place, or that it is best if wants seeks and gains CLARITY BEFORE they make ANY ASSUMPTION, AT ALL?

If yes, then okay.

But if no, then okay.

By the way, it is you who thinks or BELIEVES that EVERY thing came from NOTHING correct?

If no, then what do you think or BELIEVE here?

I should have said, "You are trapped because you think that nothing comes out of nothing is impossible and there must be nothing at the beginning.".

LOL

You seem to be under some sort of illusion that thee Universe, Itself, HAS TO BE and WORK IN a way that suits and fits in with 'you', human beings, and with the 'you' LOOK AT and SEE things. Which is even MORE LAUGHABLE the MORE I LOOK AT this.

These words apply to you better.

HOW and WHY, EXACTLY?

Let us SEE if you are REALLY able to back up and support YOUR CLAIMS here.

We will see.

Are you REALLY as STUPID as the words you write here, or are you just PRETENDING to be STUPID? Or, maybe you are just 'trying to' DEFLECT, AGAIN?

1. I just got through asking you to CLARIFY what the 'it' word refers to, EXACTLY, AND THEN you go and use and write the 'it' word AGAIN, which I STILL do NOT YET KNOW what, literally, 'it', refers to.

2. You NEVER CLARIFIED ANY of the CLARIFYING questions I ask you in regards to what you HAD said, and then you go and write more or less the EXACT SAME thing, AGAIN.

3. The process of: 'reaching from the so-called "infinite past to now",' or better worded 'reaching from 'infinite' to 'now',' is EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY. That is; ONCE you KNOW HOW to do it.

4. NO one, besides you, has mentioned ANY thing about "a person WAITING from infinite past to now". So, WHY you CONTINUE with this ABSURDITY? Especially, since I INFORMED you PREVIOUSLY that I have NEVER even imagined it, let alone talked about it.

No. The process of reaching from the infinite past to now is logically impossible.

LOL

I can do it AND have, ALREADY, done it.

And, I have done it in a way, that is Truly SO SIMPLE and SO EASY to do.

Nonesense.

Well DO IT.

Once you do it, then this will be "the end", OBVIOUSLY.

Do you REALLY NOT YET KNOW or UNDERSTAND that once some thing is REFUTED, then it could NEVER even be DISPUTED logically EVERY AGAIN, let alone DISPROVED? Or, that once some thing, which was said and written, is IRREFUTABLE it is FOREVER MORE PROVED True, Right, and/or Correct?

Let's see if this round will do the job.

LOL

You OBVIOUSLY have NOT YET REFUTED what I have been saying here.

What? That you have reached from infinite past to now. That is only a claim without any support.

[simplicity]

WHY did you turn this into a male gendered scenario ONLY?

I must confess...I was sent here by the Council of Male Hierarchical Galaxies in order to spread our doctrine that only men should rule over the Universe.

Was your question serious?

VERY SERIOUS.

WHY are 'you', adult male gendered human beings, so male centric that you ACTUALLY continue to anthropomorphize things, and do so while adding male gender to them if you think or BELIEVE that those things are more powerful or more superior than other things are?

The MAIN reason 'God' is just referred to as a "he" is because when bibles or scripture texts were first written they were written by male human beings, and in the days when those stories were being made up and written the male of the human being, LAUGHABLY, ACTUALLY BELIEVED that is was more powerful, more smarter, and more superior to "others". And, the MOST RIDICULOUS part of this is that there STILL REMAINS, in the days when this was being written, some male human beings who STILL BELIEVED that they are the more superior, more powerful, and more smarter of the species.

LOL If only they KNEW.

I don't know anybody who believe that way. Who are you getting your information from? Somebody did a number on you.

[Eodnhoj7]

Nothing is only one possible state of affair. There are many other possible states of affair. Therefore, nothing is unstable even if it was the initial state of affair. Therefore, there must be something instead of nothing after the initial point.

If void is truly void then void must void void therefore resulting in being. Being is the observation of void.

[Age]

That is not really an argument (bold part).

I KNOW.

I only begin to 'argue' when, and IF, people SHOW INTEREST.

Ok, I am interested.

This may be true, but as is sometimes said, 'actions speak much louder than words'.

What I ALSO said was, when, and IF, people SHOW interest.

Because the universe is like this now it does not mean it could be different.

I KNOW because the Universe is like this now to does not mean it could be different.

Because the Universe is the way It IS, and works the way It does, ALWAYS NOW, this MEANS that thee Universe could NOT be DIFFERENT than what It IS, at ANY and EVERY moment of NOW.

I should have said, "Because the universe is like this now it does not mean it could not be different."

This is what you keep CLAIMING is true.

We now just WAIT for you to PROVE this true.

And, while we WAIT for this, we will WAIT for you to just explain HOW this could even a POSSIBILITY, let alone an ACTUALITY.

Where did you define the two words?

I NEVER said I did.

Were you ASSUMING I did?

Cool. So you agree with my definition of actual and possible?

For sake of this discussion, yes.

You are confused. I am getting convinced that I am wasting my time.

If you are spending your time EXPECTING me to BELIEVE or to ACCEPT that what you are saying and claiming here is either true or absolutely true, then I will INFORM you IRREFUTABLY that you ARE WASTING your time.

Let's start with the definition of possible. If something is possible (like possible universes) then it means it could exist. Could we agree on this?

VERY, VERY MUCH SO.

If yes, then the universe could be different.

This is a VERY MUCH NO.

The reasons WHY I have ALREADY EXPLAINED.

Do you agree with my definition of actual and possible?

YES.

And, as I have ALREADY PREVIOUSLY STATED that definition FURTHER PROVES what I have been saying and claiming True.

No, you are wrong.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You continually CLAIM that, "I am wrong", but, relatively, NEVER even ask me for CLARIFICATION in regards to what I am am ACTUALLY MEANING.

LOOK, HOW could you KNOW that "I am wrong" in regards to HOW YOUR DEFINITIONS for the words 'possible' AND 'actual' could AND do FURTHER PROOF that what I have been saying and claiming IS True, when you do NOT YET EVEN FULLY KNOW what I am TALKING ABOUT?

Read OP and think through. Could you possibly exist not? For example, your parents didn't decide to have you?

I have read YOUR opening post here AGAIN. I STILL WONDER WHY you AGREE that there is NOT 'something', but STILL question, "Why is there something instead of nothing"?

You asking, "Could you possibly exist not?" is NONSENSICAL as when you asked, "Why there is something instead of nothing?"

Look, a lot of your views are just plain False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect to begin with, let alone 'trying to' decipher what your words are saying or asking in "english".

If, here, you are asking me, 'Could you possibly exist, if your parents did not decide to have you?' Then the answer is Yes.

But this will only DETRACT from the point in which you are 'trying to' make here, correct?

No. That is the meaning of possibility.

WHAT is the meaning of possibility?

When you say things like, "That is the meaning of possibility", then I have absolutely NO idea what the 'that' word is referring to, EXACTLY?

And, I am NOT going to start ASSUMING things, in case I make a mistake. Is this UNDERSTOOD, by you?

You were a possibility which means that you could exist.

So, your "argument" now is, because 'you' or absolutely ANY thing is a possibility, IN THE FUTURE, then this means absolutely ANY thing COULD EXIST, correct?

That is different from being necessary which means that you should exist. You are however actual which means that you only exist.

ONCE AGAIN, this is ALL a DETRACTION from what you WERE CLAIMING. Or, I am STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING 'you'.

And, ONCE MORE, WHAT does the first 'that' in your first sentence here refer to, EXACTLY?

Also, are you AWARE that 'you' could exist if your parents did not decide to have you?

I am not talking about humans. I am talking about a process with no end which is unreachable.

Well if a process has no end, then, obviously, THE PROCESS is unreachable.

However, if ANY one was to LOOK BACK, then what can be CLEARLY SEEN are the words that you have ACTUALLY used and written here. Which could completely contradict your claim now that you were NOT talking about humans.

So you agree that the end of a process with no end cannot be reached?

If, when I CLEARLY WROTE THE WORDS, 'if a process has no end, then, obviously, THE PROCESS is unreachable' was NOT CLEAR ENOUGH, for you, that I AGREE that the end of a process with no end cannot be reached, then let us SEE if these words will make it CLEAR ENOUGH, for you - YES, I AGREE that the end of a process with NO end cannot be reached.

If yes, then there is no process that started without any starting. Therefore, the universe has a beginning.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You TRULY DO make me LAUGH OUT LOUD "bahman".

OF COURSE there is NO process that STARTED, without ANY STARTING. This is just as OBVIOUS as some of your OTHER CLAIMS.

But to 'try to' relate that OBVIOUS statement and claim to; "Therefore, the Universe has a beginning", as though this 'logically followed', is about as UNSOUND as I have SEEN, from you.

LOOK, it was ALREADY VERY OBVIOUS what your BELIEFS are here, but your ATTEMPTS at 'trying to' valid those BELIEFS are only working AGAINST YOU.

You are trapped because you think that nothing comes out of nothing and there must be nothing at the beginning.

LOL
LOL
LOL

You could not be MORE Wrong and MORE off track and topic here ANYMORE.

I have NEVER thought that "nothing comes out of nothing", and I have NEVER thought that "there must be nothing at the beginning".

Do you EVER recall me advising that if one wants to make a CLAIM, then it would be much better for them if they had thee ACTUAL PROOF BEFORE they make the CLAIM in the first place, or that it is best if wants seeks and gains CLARITY BEFORE they make ANY ASSUMPTION, AT ALL?

If yes, then okay.

But if no, then okay.

By the way, it is you who thinks or BELIEVES that EVERY thing came from NOTHING correct?

If no, then what do you think or BELIEVE here?

I should have said, "You are trapped because you think that nothing comes out of nothing is impossible and there must be nothing at the beginning.".

1. I do NOT think that nothing comes out of nothing is impossible.

2. I do NOT think that there must be nothing at the beginning.

WHERE are you getting these ASSUMPTIONS from EXACTLY?

WHAT is driving you to ASSUME such ABSURD, Wrong, and RIDICULOUS things as these?

I can think of about five DIFFERENT ways of taking this discussion now, but I will just leave this with those two CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, for you.

These words apply to you better.

HOW and WHY, EXACTLY?

Let us SEE if you are REALLY able to back up and support YOUR CLAIMS here.

We will see.

Are you AWARE that IT IS YOU that we are WAITING FOR?

No. The process of reaching from the infinite past to now is logically impossible.

LOL

I can do it AND have, ALREADY, done it.

And, I have done it in a way, that is Truly SO SIMPLE and SO EASY to do.

Nonesense.

Here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of just HOW CLOSED the people, in these days, REALLY ARE.

They can seek absolutely NO clarity AT ALL sort, and have absolutely NO knowledge AT ALL of what 'it' IS that I am ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT, but they would STILL respond with things like, "Nonsense".

Let's see if this round will do the job.

LOL

You OBVIOUSLY have NOT YET REFUTED what I have been saying here.

What? That you have reached from infinite past to now. That is only a claim without any support.

BUT thee support IS HERE. You jut can NOT YET SEE 'it' BECAUSE you are completely and utterly BLINDED by your own BELIEFS and thus because you are SO CLOSED.

[Age]

I must confess...I was sent here by the Council of Male Hierarchical Galaxies in order to spread our doctrine that only men should rule over the Universe.

Was your question serious?

VERY SERIOUS.

WHY are 'you', adult male gendered human beings, so male centric that you ACTUALLY continue to anthropomorphize things, and do so while adding male gender to them if you think or BELIEVE that those things are more powerful or more superior than other things are?

The MAIN reason 'God' is just referred to as a "he" is because when bibles or scripture texts were first written they were written by male human beings, and in the days when those stories were being made up and written the male of the human being, LAUGHABLY, ACTUALLY BELIEVED that is was more powerful, more smarter, and more superior to "others". And, the MOST RIDICULOUS part of this is that there STILL REMAINS, in the days when this was being written, some male human beings who STILL BELIEVED that they are the more superior, more powerful, and more smarter of the species.

LOL If only they KNEW.

I don't know anybody who believe that way.

So what? Are you 'trying to' infer here that you KNOW EVERY one and that NO one is like this?

Also, WHY, EXACTLY, did you turn that into a male gendered scenario ONLY?

Who are you getting your information from?

In regards to 'what', EXACTLY?

Somebody did a number on you.

Is this a statement, or a question?