Contradiction as Truth

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:12 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:49 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:47 am 1. From what I have read and understood I stand in agreement with you. With the introduction of "Y" as a third medial element both X and -X coexist. A simple example of this is Man, as P, and Woman, as -P, both existing simultaneously under the third element of "Human".

2. In agreement with "totality" as having its foundation in "nothing".
I am giving your earlier post a pass but they could be reduce to the above point.

Note again 'same sense',
In logic, the law of non-contradiction (LNC) (also known as the law of contradiction, principle of non-contradiction (PNC), or the principle of contradiction) states that contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time, e. g. the two propositions "p is the case" and "p is not the case" are mutually exclusive.
-wiki
When you add the third element, you are changing the sense [context] and that is why the LNC do not apply if in a different sense.

Btw, long ago I was also trying to be a smart-alec in countering whenever anyone propose, this cannot be that or that cannot be this.
It is good trait that we do not simply agree with whatever is proposed or is traditionalized.
But in the case of 'contradiction' and the LNC, it is foolish in trying to outsmart this principle in absolute terms.
1. Both +P and -P share P as a constant ("+" is implied in P as a positive value given P exists.) therefore P is the third element of +P and -P. The LNC is triadic. Both +P and -P equate through P.

2. Another way of expressing P and -P is a square peg and and square hole, both P and -P share the same context of "square". Two opposing phenomenon exist under the same context just as a square peg and square hole exist under the same context of square. Both the peg and the hole equate through "square". The "same sense" in the LNC is the same as context give "sense" is a context. To sense a phenomenon is to observe it from a specific angle, a specific angle is a context. The third element is the context as "the same sense" is the third element through which P and -P are observed. The LNC is triadic.

3. "The same sense" is undefined and is assumed. "Sense" is an angle of awareness and given it is angle of awareness it is a context. Multiple contradictory things can be observed under the same context, ie a "skinny fat person" (a person who is slim but has roles of fat). To say "same sense" is to say "same context". The third element, or "context", is both P and -P connected and through this connection equivocation occurs. P and -P are both connected through "sense" or rather "context".
Whatever the diversity and difference in reality, they all can be reducible and reconcilable to 'stardust'. So give me any distinction and difference I can make them the same in various context down to 'stardust' or the Big Bang and back to the subject.

But that is not the purpose for the term 'contradiction' and LNC within any philosophy.
  • Contradiction:
    a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another.
    "the proposed new system suffers from a set of internal contradictions"
    a situation in which inconsistent elements are present.
    "the paradox of using force to overcome force is a real contradiction"
    the statement of a position opposite to one already made.
    "the second sentence appears to be in flat contradiction of the first"
The term 'contradiction' was coined to emphasize distinction, difference, contrast, and the like between two terms with no implication they must be the same.
Skepdick
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Skepdick »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:13 pm
Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:57 am

If all is rooted in contradiction then a respect for all being is necessitated given being occurs through opposition; Both sides of a coin are necessary for the coin to exist.
Q.E.D

Why are you telling me this?
Because you said "none of them can tell you why they are talking about it" and I am telling you why I am talking about it.
You keep telling me what you are talking about.
You haven't yet told me why you are talking about it.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:18 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:13 pm
Skepdick wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Q.E.D

Why are you telling me this?
Because you said "none of them can tell you why they are talking about it" and I am telling you why I am talking about it.
You keep telling me what you are talking about.
You haven't yet told me why you are talking about it.
Because "then a respect for all being is necessitated"; there is an absence of respect for all being when people do not accept the division and relegate phenomenon to an "either/or" mentality rather than a "both/and" mentality.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:40 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:12 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:49 am
I am giving your earlier post a pass but they could be reduce to the above point.

Note again 'same sense',



When you add the third element, you are changing the sense [context] and that is why the LNC do not apply if in a different sense.

Btw, long ago I was also trying to be a smart-alec in countering whenever anyone propose, this cannot be that or that cannot be this.
It is good trait that we do not simply agree with whatever is proposed or is traditionalized.
But in the case of 'contradiction' and the LNC, it is foolish in trying to outsmart this principle in absolute terms.
1. Both +P and -P share P as a constant ("+" is implied in P as a positive value given P exists.) therefore P is the third element of +P and -P. The LNC is triadic. Both +P and -P equate through P.

2. Another way of expressing P and -P is a square peg and and square hole, both P and -P share the same context of "square". Two opposing phenomenon exist under the same context just as a square peg and square hole exist under the same context of square. Both the peg and the hole equate through "square". The "same sense" in the LNC is the same as context give "sense" is a context. To sense a phenomenon is to observe it from a specific angle, a specific angle is a context. The third element is the context as "the same sense" is the third element through which P and -P are observed. The LNC is triadic.

3. "The same sense" is undefined and is assumed. "Sense" is an angle of awareness and given it is angle of awareness it is a context. Multiple contradictory things can be observed under the same context, ie a "skinny fat person" (a person who is slim but has roles of fat). To say "same sense" is to say "same context". The third element, or "context", is both P and -P connected and through this connection equivocation occurs. P and -P are both connected through "sense" or rather "context".
Whatever the diversity and difference in reality, they all can be reducible and reconcilable to 'stardust'. So give me any distinction and difference I can make them the same in various context down to 'stardust' or the Big Bang and back to the subject.

But that is not the purpose for the term 'contradiction' and LNC within any philosophy.
  • Contradiction:
    a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another.
    "the proposed new system suffers from a set of internal contradictions"
    a situation in which inconsistent elements are present.
    "the paradox of using force to overcome force is a real contradiction"
    the statement of a position opposite to one already made.
    "the second sentence appears to be in flat contradiction of the first"
The term 'contradiction' was coined to emphasize distinction, difference, contrast, and the like between two terms with no implication they must be the same.
But given everything is reducible to "x" these distinctions are false thus necessitating the LNC as having faulty grounds. Using the example of the square peg and square hole one can see to opposite phenomena, the peg and the hole, equate through the common grounds of the square. The same occurs for the logical expression of +P=/=-P where both +P and -P both share the form of P.
Skepdick
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Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Skepdick »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:36 pm Because "then a respect for all being is necessitated"; there is an absence of respect for all being when people do not accept the division and relegate phenomenon to an "either/or" mentality rather than a "both/and" mentality.
👆All of that stuff you said above.... And the stuff before it. AND the stuff before it.

WHY are you telling me any of this?
Eodnhoj7
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:36 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:36 pm Because "then a respect for all being is necessitated"; there is an absence of respect for all being when people do not accept the division and relegate phenomenon to an "either/or" mentality rather than a "both/and" mentality.
👆All of that stuff you said above.... And the stuff before it. AND the stuff before it.

WHY are you telling me any of this?
Because you said "Why(?)"
Skepdick
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Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Skepdick »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:53 pm Because you said "Why(?)"
My "Why?" came after you telling me (and everyone) all of this.

Your words caused my "Why?"

So.... WHY are you telling me (and everyone) all of this?
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:10 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:53 pm Because you said "Why(?)"
My "Why?" came after you telling me (and everyone) all of this.

Your words caused my "Why?"

So.... WHY are you telling me (and everyone) all of this?
"All these people preoccupying themselves with knowing what they are talking about - none of them can tell you why they are talking about it."

Because you said "why(?)".

Being expresses itself for what it is until, or "if", it exhausts itself.
Skepdick
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Skepdick »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:41 pm "All these people preoccupying themselves with knowing what they are talking about - none of them can tell you why they are talking about it."

Because you said "why(?)".

Being expresses itself for what it is until, or "if", it exhausts itself.
You still don't grok....

I said what I said after you said what you said without saying WHY you are saying it.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:26 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:41 pm "All these people preoccupying themselves with knowing what they are talking about - none of them can tell you why they are talking about it."

Because you said "why(?)".

Being expresses itself for what it is until, or "if", it exhausts itself.
You still don't grok....

I said what I said after you said what you said without saying WHY you are saying it.
Or is it you who does not understand?

Being expresses itself until exhaustion, this is why I am saying what I am saying (and why others say what they say). The simple expression of being, whatever it may be, is the "why"; being "just is" considering the point of "why a being" is to result in another "why a being" with being just being the "why". "Why" points one being to another with this pointing existing as a being.
Skepdick
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Skepdick »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:38 am Or is it you who does not understand?

Being expresses itself until exhaustion, this is why I am saying what I am saying (and why others say what they say). The simple expression of being, whatever it may be, is the "why"; being "just is" considering the point of "why a being" is to result in another "why a being" with being just being the "why". "Why" points one being to another with this pointing existing as a being.
I don't understand WHY you started this thread.

I don't understand the point of your point.
Scott Mayers
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Scott Mayers »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:55 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:38 am Or is it you who does not understand?

Being expresses itself until exhaustion, this is why I am saying what I am saying (and why others say what they say). The simple expression of being, whatever it may be, is the "why"; being "just is" considering the point of "why a being" is to result in another "why a being" with being just being the "why". "Why" points one being to another with this pointing existing as a being.
I don't understand WHY you started this thread.

I don't understand the point of your point.
It is you who opts to trivialize this thread. You do not HAVE to be here responding if you insist that Eodnhoj7's thread is meaningless. We all heard you to this point and would NOT hold a grudge againt you for your difference of opinion, something that you'll just have to accept or move on. Unless you have an issue with his right to introduce the topic based upon some other theoretical grounds of the site's philosophical theme, what else can you do or say that would change your opinion otherwise?
Skepdick
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Skepdick »

Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:50 pm It is you who opts to trivialize this thread.
It's pretty ironic that you think asking "Why?" is an act of trivialization; and not a question of ultimate import.
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:50 pm You do not HAVE to be here responding if you insist that Eodnhoj7's thread is meaningless.
You don't HAVE to be here assuming my insistance. Especially since my question's purpose is precisely to elucidate the meaning of this thread.

But do obserhe on the scale of 0 to 100 for being an ass you score 101. Because I am not the one implying THAT Eodnhoj7's thread is meaningless - you are.

I am the one trying to determine its meaning.
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:50 pm We all heard you to this point and would NOT hold a grudge againt you for your difference of opinion, something that you'll just have to accept or move on.
And yet here you are. NOT moving on.
Scott Mayers wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:50 pm Unless you have an issue with his right to introduce the topic based upon some other theoretical grounds of the site's philosophical theme, what else can you do or say that would change your opinion otherwise?
Your ineptitude at understanding is so profound there should be an institution and a generic mental disorder for people with your handicap.

I have no issue with his right. I am asking WHY he is choosing to exercise it.

Amatter of triviality to you.
A matter of utmost import to me.
Eodnhoj7
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Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:55 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:38 am Or is it you who does not understand?

Being expresses itself until exhaustion, this is why I am saying what I am saying (and why others say what they say). The simple expression of being, whatever it may be, is the "why"; being "just is" considering the point of "why a being" is to result in another "why a being" with being just being the "why". "Why" points one being to another with this pointing existing as a being.
I don't understand WHY you started this thread.

I don't understand the point of your point.
It exists, that is all there is to understand.
Skepdick
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Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Contradiction as Truth

Post by Skepdick »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:15 pm It exists, that is all there is to understand.
Uh. No. It only exists because you caused it to exist.

WHY did you cause it to exist?
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