Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:13 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:55 am To me, parts of matter are conscious too ...
To me too. They are called organisms and only living entities are conscious. Except for the living organisms there is not consciousness. To suggest anything else is conscious is the mystic nonsense of primitive minds.
So we are having some progress. You think that parts of the alive brain are conscious but parts of a dead brain are not. What makes these two parts different?
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

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Sculptor wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:56 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:58 am
Sculptor wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:11 pm
FFS. and a journaey from London to Liverpool is not the property of any SINGLE part of a car. .
Are you so dull as to have missed that point TWICE now?

Gibberish
Can't you tell me the function of each part of your car? Sure yes. Now tell me the function of neurons in your brain that give you consciousness.
Actually the brain has its own divisions too. You need to educate your self.
I know. You are just evading my question again.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by RCSaunders »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:57 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:13 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:55 am To me, parts of matter are conscious too ...
To me too. They are called organisms and only living entities are conscious. Except for the living organisms there is not consciousness. To suggest anything else is conscious is the mystic nonsense of primitive minds.
So we are having some progress. You think that parts of the alive brain are conscious but parts of a dead brain are not. What makes these two parts different?
Brains do not make an organism conscious. The relationship between brains and consciousness is that brains are the physical organ of consciousness organisms that provide access to all that consciousness can be conscious of.

You know you do not agree with my view. I'm not trying to convince you. Believe whatever you like and attempt to live by what you believe. If you are right, you will be successful. If not, you will suffer the consequences. Either way, it's no skin off my nose.
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:57 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:13 pm
To me too. They are called organisms and only living entities are conscious. Except for the living organisms there is not consciousness. To suggest anything else is conscious is the mystic nonsense of primitive minds.
So we are having some progress. You think that parts of the alive brain are conscious but parts of a dead brain are not. What makes these two parts different?
Brains do not make an organism conscious. The relationship between brains and consciousness is that brains are the physical organ of consciousness organisms that provide access to all that consciousness can be conscious of.

You know you do not agree with my view. I'm not trying to convince you. Believe whatever you like and attempt to live by what you believe. If you are right, you will be successful. If not, you will suffer the consequences. Either way, it's no skin off my nose.
So to you, consciousness is a thing? I call that mind.
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Sculptor
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:58 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:56 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:58 am
Can't you tell me the function of each part of your car? Sure yes. Now tell me the function of neurons in your brain that give you consciousness.
Actually the brain has its own divisions too. You need to educate your self.
I know. You are just evading my question again.
Neurology is a massive field, and you have closed off your mind by saying "almost nothing is known".
The fact is that almost nothing is known BY YOU!!
So run along and find out, first then come back and tell us all what you have found.
You might starts with the difference between sensory and motor nerves; being voluntary and involuntary impulses; the differences between the cortext and whit matter; the amygdula; then look at the different areas that do different jobs; speech, face recognotion; pleasure/pain response and so on.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by RCSaunders »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:00 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:57 pm
So we are having some progress. You think that parts of the alive brain are conscious but parts of a dead brain are not. What makes these two parts different?
Brains do not make an organism conscious. The relationship between brains and consciousness is that brains are the physical organ of consciousness organisms that provide access to all that consciousness can be conscious of.

You know you do not agree with my view. I'm not trying to convince you. Believe whatever you like and attempt to live by what you believe. If you are right, you will be successful. If not, you will suffer the consequences. Either way, it's no skin off my nose.
So to you, consciousness is a thing? I call that mind.
No! Consciousness is not a thing! It is not a substance, not an entity, not a process, and not an event. Consciousness is an attribute (quality, characteristic, or property). It is that attribute in some organisms that enables them to consciously perceive (see, hear, feel, taste, and smell) physical existence and in human being to consciously learn, think, and choose their behavior.
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:18 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:58 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:56 pm

Actually the brain has its own divisions too. You need to educate your self.
I know. You are just evading my question again.
Neurology is a massive field, and you have closed off your mind by saying "almost nothing is known".
The fact is that almost nothing is known BY YOU!!
So run along and find out, first then come back and tell us all what you have found.
You might starts with the difference between sensory and motor nerves; being voluntary and involuntary impulses; the differences between the cortext and whit matter; the amygdula; then look at the different areas that do different jobs; speech, face recognotion; pleasure/pain response and so on.
Meh.
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:29 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:00 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 pm
Brains do not make an organism conscious. The relationship between brains and consciousness is that brains are the physical organ of consciousness organisms that provide access to all that consciousness can be conscious of.

You know you do not agree with my view. I'm not trying to convince you. Believe whatever you like and attempt to live by what you believe. If you are right, you will be successful. If not, you will suffer the consequences. Either way, it's no skin off my nose.
So to you, consciousness is a thing? I call that mind.
No! Consciousness is not a thing! It is not a substance, not an entity, not a process, and not an event. Consciousness is an attribute (quality, characteristic, or property). It is that attribute in some organisms that enables them to consciously perceive (see, hear, feel, taste, and smell) physical existence and in human being to consciously learn, think, and choose their behavior.
I see. That doesn't make sense to me. Thanks for your patience and for describing your worldview.
owl of Minerva
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by owl of Minerva »

bahman wrote:

"Matter in all its forms, except the brain within the materialism, has properties which these properties are functions of properties of parts. To me, parts of matter are conscious too so the problem is resolved. There is no need to assume that matter could have arbitrary properties."
Top
....................................

There is the expression: The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. David Bohm took the general theory of relativity, the space-time continuum, further by asserting that everything in the universe is part of a continuum. Despite the apparent separateness of things at the explicate level, everything is a seamless extension of everything else and ultimately even the implicate and explicate orders blend into each other. Bohm cautions that this does not mean the universe is a giant undifferentiated mass, things still possess their own unique qualities.

That parts function with intelligence does not mean that they are conscious. AI functions with intelligence without being conscious.
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Sculptor
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:31 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:29 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:00 pm
So to you, consciousness is a thing? I call that mind.
No! Consciousness is not a thing! It is not a substance, not an entity, not a process, and not an event. Consciousness is an attribute (quality, characteristic, or property). It is that attribute in some organisms that enables them to consciously perceive (see, hear, feel, taste, and smell) physical existence and in human being to consciously learn, think, and choose their behavior.
I see. That doesn't make sense to me. Thanks for your patience and for describing your worldview.
Nothing does make sense to a person who steadfastly refuses to examine the evidence.

Neurology is a massive field, and you have closed off your mind by saying "almost nothing is known".
The fact is that almost nothing is known BY YOU!!
So run along and find out, first then come back and tell us all what you have found.
You might starts with the difference between sensory and motor nerves; being voluntary and involuntary impulses; the differences between the cortext and whit matter; the amygdula; then look at the different areas that do different jobs; speech, face recognotion; pleasure/pain response and so on.
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

owl of Minerva wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 pm bahman wrote:

"Matter in all its forms, except the brain within the materialism, has properties which these properties are functions of properties of parts. To me, parts of matter are conscious too so the problem is resolved. There is no need to assume that matter could have arbitrary properties."
Top
....................................

There is the expression: The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. David Bohm took the general theory of relativity, the space-time continuum, further by asserting that everything in the universe is part of a continuum. Despite the apparent separateness of things at the explicate level, everything is a seamless extension of everything else and ultimately even the implicate and explicate orders blend into each other. Bohm cautions that this does not mean the universe is a giant undifferentiated mass, things still possess their own unique qualities.

That parts function with intelligence does not mean that they are conscious. AI functions with intelligence without being conscious.
We are not talking about intelligence but consciousness.
owl of Minerva
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by owl of Minerva »

↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 pm
bahman wrote:

" To me, parts of matter are conscious too so the problem is resolved. There is no need to assume that matter could have arbitrary properties."

.......................................
Owl of Minerva wrote:

" That parts function with intelligence does not mean that they are conscious. AI functions with intelligence without being conscious. "
........................................

bahman wrote:
"We are not talking about intelligence but consciousness."

........................................

Maybe you meant parts of matter have consciousness, assuming that consciousness is pervasive, not "parts of matter are conscious."
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:12 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:31 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:29 pm
No! Consciousness is not a thing! It is not a substance, not an entity, not a process, and not an event. Consciousness is an attribute (quality, characteristic, or property). It is that attribute in some organisms that enables them to consciously perceive (see, hear, feel, taste, and smell) physical existence and in human being to consciously learn, think, and choose their behavior.
I see. That doesn't make sense to me. Thanks for your patience and for describing your worldview.
Nothing does make sense to a person who steadfastly refuses to examine the evidence.

Neurology is a massive field, and you have closed off your mind by saying "almost nothing is known".
The fact is that almost nothing is known BY YOU!!
So run along and find out, first then come back and tell us all what you have found.
You might starts with the difference between sensory and motor nerves; being voluntary and involuntary impulses; the differences between the cortext and whit matter; the amygdula; then look at the different areas that do different jobs; speech, face recognotion; pleasure/pain response and so on.
You are not making any sense for two reasons: 1) You evade my question and instead, telling me that the brain has parts, and 2) RCSaunders disagrees with you when it comes to consciousness.
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

owl of Minerva wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:27 pm ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:33 pm
bahman wrote:

" To me, parts of matter are conscious too so the problem is resolved. There is no need to assume that matter could have arbitrary properties."

.......................................
Owl of Minerva wrote:

" That parts function with intelligence does not mean that they are conscious. AI functions with intelligence without being conscious. "
........................................

bahman wrote:
"We are not talking about intelligence but consciousness."

........................................

Maybe you meant parts of matter have consciousness, assuming that consciousness is pervasive, not "parts of matter are conscious."
No, I mean that the parts of matter are conscious.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by RCSaunders »

bahman wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:46 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:12 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:31 pm
I see. That doesn't make sense to me. Thanks for your patience and for describing your worldview.
Nothing does make sense to a person who steadfastly refuses to examine the evidence.

Neurology is a massive field, and you have closed off your mind by saying "almost nothing is known".
The fact is that almost nothing is known BY YOU!!
So run along and find out, first then come back and tell us all what you have found.
You might starts with the difference between sensory and motor nerves; being voluntary and involuntary impulses; the differences between the cortext and whit matter; the amygdula; then look at the different areas that do different jobs; speech, face recognotion; pleasure/pain response and so on.
You are not making any sense for two reasons: 1) You evade my question and instead, telling me that the brain has parts, and 2) RCSaunders disagrees with you when it comes to consciousness.
Since you've taken my name in vain...
Sculptor and I do not disagree on what consciousness is, or on the fact that a great deal has been learned about the physiology of the brain. Our minor disagreement on consciousness is on whether consciousness can be explained by the physical behavior of the brain alone or not. Compared to your view, our disagreement hardly matters, and yours is sheer mystic nonsense.
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