Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

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Veritas Aequitas
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Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain & how it works!
simplicity wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:56 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:10 am Surprised you are unable to get the point.
I get your point but believe you are incredibly naive. You simply do not understand what you do not understand. Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works.
I am very surprised with the above statement from Simplicity.

The human brain is a very complex but we have learned a lot about the brain and how it works relative to what we knew about the brain 100 years ago.
The toughest issue so far is with regard to the Hard Problem of Consciousness which is more of a philosophical issue than brain sciences.

There are tons of materials related to the brain out there, e.g. roughly,

Note the following;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychiatry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychology
and Neuro-whatever.

10 Big Ideas in 10 Years of Brain Science
Scientific American MIND reflects on the major discoveries of the past decade that have transformed how we think about the brain.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-science/

Note also
http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/
The Human Connectome Project aims to provide an unparalleled compilation of neural data, an interface to graphically navigate this data and the opportunity to achieve never before realized conclusions about the living human brain.

Personally I have been doing extensive research on the brain [neurosciences and neuro-whatever] and noted there had been tons of research and progressive improvements in the knowledge about the brain and how it works. Thus I am very surprise with Simplicity's declaration.
"Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works."

Views?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:20 am 10 Big Ideas in 10 Years of Brain Science
Scientific American MIND reflects on the major discoveries of the past decade that have transformed how we think about the brain.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-science/
If it's possible to have ten major ideas in the last ten years that change how you think about a thing, it should go without saying that we don't yet know an awful lot about that thing.

Simplicity wins your little debate by default.
simplicity
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by simplicity »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:20 amPersonally I have been doing extensive research on the brain [neurosciences and neuro-whatever] and noted there had been tons of research and progressive improvements in the knowledge about the brain and how it works. Thus I am very surprise with Simplicity's declaration.
"Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works."
Neuro-whatever...

...exactly.
Age
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:20 am Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain & how it works!
simplicity wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:56 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:10 am Surprised you are unable to get the point.
I get your point but believe you are incredibly naive. You simply do not understand what you do not understand. Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works.
I am very surprised with the above statement from Simplicity.

The human brain is a very complex but we have learned a lot about the brain and how it works relative to what we knew about the brain 100 years ago.
The toughest issue so far is with regard to the Hard Problem of Consciousness which is more of a philosophical issue than brain sciences.

There are tons of materials related to the brain out there, e.g. roughly,

Note the following;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychiatry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychology
and Neuro-whatever.

10 Big Ideas in 10 Years of Brain Science
Scientific American MIND reflects on the major discoveries of the past decade that have transformed how we think about the brain.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-science/

Note also
http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/
The Human Connectome Project aims to provide an unparalleled compilation of neural data, an interface to graphically navigate this data and the opportunity to achieve never before realized conclusions about the living human brain.

Personally I have been doing extensive research on the brain [neurosciences and neuro-whatever] and noted there had been tons of research and progressive improvements in the knowledge about the brain and how it works. Thus I am very surprise with Simplicity's declaration.
"Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works."

Views?
Will you explain 'how the brain works', to you?
Age
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Age »

By the way, how the brain, and the Mind, actually work is in a VERY SIMPLE process.

There is nothing complicated nor hard is learning about, understanding, and knowing this very simple process.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

simplicity wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:45 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:20 amPersonally I have been doing extensive research on the brain [neurosciences and neuro-whatever] and noted there had been tons of research and progressive improvements in the knowledge about the brain and how it works. Thus I am very surprise with Simplicity's declaration.
"Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works."
Neuro-whatever...

...exactly.
The brain is the pivot to all human mental activities, thus whatever subject is relevant for my purpose I will dig into its "neuro" basis, e.g. neuro-ethics, neuro-philosophy, neuro-linguistic, neuro-logic, neuro-metaphysics, neuro-espistemology, thus neuro-whatever-relevant to my interests.
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:20 am Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain & how it works!
simplicity wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:56 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:10 am Surprised you are unable to get the point.
I get your point but believe you are incredibly naive. You simply do not understand what you do not understand. Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works.
I am very surprised with the above statement from Simplicity.

The human brain is a very complex but we have learned a lot about the brain and how it works relative to what we knew about the brain 100 years ago.
The toughest issue so far is with regard to the Hard Problem of Consciousness which is more of a philosophical issue than brain sciences.

There are tons of materials related to the brain out there, e.g. roughly,

Note the following;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychiatry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychology
and Neuro-whatever.

10 Big Ideas in 10 Years of Brain Science
Scientific American MIND reflects on the major discoveries of the past decade that have transformed how we think about the brain.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-science/

Note also
http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/
The Human Connectome Project aims to provide an unparalleled compilation of neural data, an interface to graphically navigate this data and the opportunity to achieve never before realized conclusions about the living human brain.

Personally I have been doing extensive research on the brain [neurosciences and neuro-whatever] and noted there had been tons of research and progressive improvements in the knowledge about the brain and how it works. Thus I am very surprise with Simplicity's declaration.
"Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works."

Views?
The only thing that we can confirm is that there is a correlation between the matter process in the brain and experience. We don't know how consciousness arises. We don't know how we do memorize and retrieve the memory. We don't know how do we think...
simplicity
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by simplicity »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:21 am
simplicity wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:45 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:20 amPersonally I have been doing extensive research on the brain [neurosciences and neuro-whatever] and noted there had been tons of research and progressive improvements in the knowledge about the brain and how it works. Thus I am very surprise with Simplicity's declaration.
"Almost nothing is known [even in human bullshit understanding] about the brain and how it works."
Neuro-whatever...

...exactly.
The brain is the pivot to all human mental activities, thus whatever subject is relevant for my purpose I will dig into its "neuro" basis, e.g. neuro-ethics, neuro-philosophy, neuro-linguistic, neuro-logic, neuro-metaphysics, neuro-espistemology, thus neuro-whatever-relevant to my interests.
It's just layers of bullshit.

Not only is it acceptable not to know, but it is preferable.

The human brain is incapable of knowing anything [and what it does "know" (what I like to refer to as BS knowing) is completely relative and changing constantly (directly proportional to knowing's inputs)].

Don't worry about knowing. Life's about doing.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

simplicity wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:41 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:21 am
simplicity wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:45 am

Neuro-whatever...

...exactly.
The brain is the pivot to all human mental activities, thus whatever subject is relevant for my purpose I will dig into its "neuro" basis, e.g. neuro-ethics, neuro-philosophy, neuro-linguistic, neuro-logic, neuro-metaphysics, neuro-espistemology, thus neuro-whatever-relevant to my interests.
It's just layers of bullshit.

Not only is it acceptable not to know, but it is preferable.

The human brain is incapable of knowing anything [and what it does "know" (what I like to refer to as BS knowing) is completely relative and changing constantly (directly proportional to knowing's inputs)].

Don't worry about knowing. Life's about doing.
You are conflating too many things regarding 'reality' and 'knowing'.

There are many levels of reality and many perspectives to "knowing" them so that we can act [doing] optimally within whatever the constraints and context.

What you are implying [which I understands] is regarding absolute and knowledge of certainty which is an impossibility for the brain [self, consciousness] to know. E.g. the 'nothingness' or 'emptiness' re Buddhism which is not the topic in this case in reference to the brain.

What I am referring to 'knowing' as generally understood is Empirical Knowledge re observations, perceptions via the senses, intellect and reason.
To insist such empirical knowledge is bullshit is ridiculous.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bahman wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:28 pm The only thing that we can confirm is that there is a correlation between the matter process in the brain and experience. We don't know how consciousness arises. We don't know how we do memorize and retrieve the memory. We don't know how do we think...
We definitely know a lot about how the brain works.

We know a lot about how memory works and that is why those who are knowledgeable of how memory works could abuse it to brainwash other people.

Initially neuroscientists learn a lot about the brain via brain lesions and noted certain humans are unable to perform certain mental functions in correspondence to certain parts of the brain that are damaged. This knowledge is reinforced with repeated events. The most common is those from patients who suffered from stroke.

Subsequently neuroscientists used electrodes to trigger various parts of the parts to find out what they are responsible for.

Now neuroscientists can track mental activities with fMRI imagings.

The above knowledge of how the brain works is not of high precision, but the trend forwards is toward higher and higher precision.

Knowing the hard problem is complex but without exact knowledge of that, you cannot deny [on blanket basis] neuroscientists are in generally ignorant of how the brain works.
simplicity
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by simplicity »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:07 am
What I am referring to 'knowing' as generally understood is Empirical Knowledge re observations, perceptions via the senses, intellect and reason.
To insist such empirical knowledge is bullshit is ridiculous.
If people don't agree with your take, you assume they are not understanding [you]. I get what you are saying, I just don't agree. Here's why...

Your empirical knowledge is a gross approximation, at best. Personal reality is simply layer upon layer of non-sense, both via the perceptual and what our meager intellect does with such data. The outcome [therefore] is severely lacking, to say the least.

A perfect example lies in studying the history of our species and observing what was thought to be true throughout the ages. Do you truly believe that we've figured it out when everybody that came before us was a complete moron? We are modern day fools, just like those who will soon take-up our struggle.

The bottom-line is that we do better with minimal [and only what's absolutely necessary] thinking. Tax the gray-matter [just a bit] and all hell breaks loose.

Perhaps in a few hundred thousand more years we will have developed an intellect that can better deal with Reality, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

simplicity wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:29 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:07 am
What I am referring to 'knowing' as generally understood is Empirical Knowledge re observations, perceptions via the senses, intellect and reason.
To insist such empirical knowledge is bullshit is ridiculous.
If people don't agree with your take, you assume they are not understanding [you]. I get what you are saying, I just don't agree. Here's why...

Your empirical knowledge is a gross approximation, at best. Personal reality is simply layer upon layer of non-sense, both via the perceptual and what our meager intellect does with such data. The outcome [therefore] is severely lacking, to say the least.

A perfect example lies in studying the history of our species and observing what was thought to be true throughout the ages. Do you truly believe that we've figured it out when everybody that came before us was a complete moron? We are modern day fools, just like those who will soon take-up our struggle.

The bottom-line is that we do better with minimal [and only what's absolutely necessary] thinking. Tax the gray-matter [just a bit] and all hell breaks loose.

Perhaps in a few hundred thousand more years we will have developed an intellect that can better deal with Reality, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
What I don't agree with your point is the unqualified declaration 'We know NOTHING about the brain!' which is very ridiculous in the common conventional sense.
Since you are so obstinate with your view, I reckon you must referring to something that is unconventional, i.e. 'nothingness' as in Buddhism or perhaps Socrates "I know that I know nothing."

Re Empirical knowledge, I agree with Popper who stated our most credible knowledge, i.e. scientific truths are at best 'polished conjectures'.
But that does not mean we 'know' nothing in the conventional sense.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... glish/know
know = "to have information in your mind"

Re evolution and history, it is obvious we have known a lot exponentially in the past 100 years relative to the >200,000 years since homo-sapiens emerged, and much more about the brain since the last 50 years. Note this, for example;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CftVrtYnsFU

Obviously humans will continue to know more in time, but how can one swallow a statement like 'We know nothing of the brain'?

Seem you are assuming a realist position re reality where an independent reality is awaiting out there for our discovery.
Note my thread on,
Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32476

In addition, a realist's position would not jive with Zen's stance on reality.
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bahman
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:20 am
bahman wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:28 pm The only thing that we can confirm is that there is a correlation between the matter process in the brain and experience. We don't know how consciousness arises. We don't know how we do memorize and retrieve the memory. We don't know how do we think...
We definitely know a lot about how the brain works.

We know a lot about how memory works and that is why those who are knowledgeable of how memory works could abuse it to brainwash other people.

Initially neuroscientists learn a lot about the brain via brain lesions and noted certain humans are unable to perform certain mental functions in correspondence to certain parts of the brain that are damaged. This knowledge is reinforced with repeated events. The most common is those from patients who suffered from stroke.

Subsequently neuroscientists used electrodes to trigger various parts of the parts to find out what they are responsible for.

Now neuroscientists can track mental activities with fMRI imagings.

The above knowledge of how the brain works is not of high precision, but the trend forwards is toward higher and higher precision.

Knowing the hard problem is complex but without exact knowledge of that, you cannot deny [on blanket basis] neuroscientists are in generally ignorant of how the brain works.
We definitely do not know how the brain works. All we know is the correlation between some mental phenomena and matter process in the brain.
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Sculptor
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:20 am We definitely do not know how the brain works. All we know is the correlation between some mental phenomena and matter process in the brain.
That is EXACTLY how we know all the science we know; correlations between phenomena and process. WIth this knowledge we have healthcare, space travel and mass communications.
simplicity
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Re: Almost Nothing is Known about the Brain &

Post by simplicity »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:05 am
What I don't agree with your point is the unqualified declaration 'We know NOTHING about the brain!' which is very ridiculous in the common conventional sense.

Since you are so obstinate with your view, I reckon you must referring to something that is unconventional, i.e. 'nothingness' as in Buddhism or perhaps Socrates "I know that I know nothing."
In absolute terms, we are incapable of knowing anything, but even in relative terms, what we can know is mish-mash, at best. And although we use this witch's brew containing [among other delicacies] intellectual eye-of-newt, and it does [on some level] provide service to our daily lives, it also leads to a great deal of consternation.

Soooo...it seems reasonable to this observer that minimizing the use of such a flawed tool can only be beneficial [and I have found that to be the case]. You can try to dig you way out of a cave with a grapefruit spoon but it probably won't work very well. Why not seek a better way?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:05 amIn addition, a realist's position would not jive with Zen's stance on reality.
And what is your appreciation of, "Zen's stance of reality?"
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