Solving Climate Change.

For all things philosophical.

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Belinda
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:16 pm
Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:48 pm XR are vitriolic because they see addressing climate change in terms of sacrifice; have less, pay more, tax this and stop that; and China's economic development started late. Asking China to curb its economic growth when individually, Chinese people use around 10% of the energy of the average American - does seem unreasonable. That said, China has a population of 1400 million people - so, as a country they are the biggest producer of greenhouse gas emissions. Their economic success since the 1990's has been nothing short of meteoric, but without magma energy, it's not sustainable for such a large population. China is increasingly hungry for energy. It might therefore be reasoned, and hoped that were magma energy on the table at COP26, China would agree - and bring Russia with them, despite Russia's relatively low population and dependence on fossil fuel revenues. Magma energy has the advantage of giving oil revenue economies time to diversify; because it would take time to set up, but provide the energy to capture carbon for centuries hence. So we'd continue using fossil fuels for some time, and repair the damage after - when we have abundant clean energy to spend, and not have to cripple ourselves in the meantime to secure a sustainable future.
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:08 pmIs it possible to get magma energy within Chinese territory. Is it certain the rock layer is thin enough?
I suggest developing magma energy as a global good initially, with the energy used specifically for carbon capture, desalination, irrigation and recycling - while building capacity to transition from fossil fuels. This is an image of all the volcanoes in the Pacific Ring of Fire - and as you can see, geographically, they're everywhere.

Image
I note what you say about getting magma energy from volcanos. Can't it also be got from sinking pipes through the rock layer anywhere the rock is thin enough?

Are there any high level talks going on that include the Chinese and the Russians?
It seems to me this is a salient advantage:
Magma energy has the advantage of giving oil revenue economies time to diversify; because it would take time to set up,
Belinda
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Belinda »

It seems from the material I copy and paste that magma energy research has so far progressed to viable technology only in Iceland.

https://www.science.gov/topicpages/m/ma ... gy+project
Vitruvius
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:48 pm XR are vitriolic because they see addressing climate change in terms of sacrifice; have less, pay more, tax this and stop that; and China's economic development started late. Asking China to curb its economic growth when individually, Chinese people use around 10% of the energy of the average American - does seem unreasonable. That said, China has a population of 1400 million people - so, as a country they are the biggest producer of greenhouse gas emissions. Their economic success since the 1990's has been nothing short of meteoric, but without magma energy, it's not sustainable for such a large population. China is increasingly hungry for energy. It might therefore be reasoned, and hoped that were magma energy on the table at COP26, China would agree - and bring Russia with them, despite Russia's relatively low population and dependence on fossil fuel revenues. Magma energy has the advantage of giving oil revenue economies time to diversify; because it would take time to set up, but provide the energy to capture carbon for centuries hence. So we'd continue using fossil fuels for some time, and repair the damage after - when we have abundant clean energy to spend, and not have to cripple ourselves in the meantime to secure a sustainable future.
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:08 pmIs it possible to get magma energy within Chinese territory. Is it certain the rock layer is thin enough?
Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:16 pmI suggest developing magma energy as a global good initially, with the energy used specifically for carbon capture, desalination, irrigation and recycling - while building capacity to transition from fossil fuels. This is an image of all the volcanoes in the Pacific Ring of Fire - and as you can see, geographically, they're everywhere.
Image
[/quote]
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:27 pmI note what you say about getting magma energy from volcanos. Can't it also be got from sinking pipes through the rock layer anywhere the rock is thin enough?

Are there any high level talks going on that include the Chinese and the Russians?

Geothermal energy can be got from burying pipes in your garden, and exploiting the heat difference between the ground and air to produce mechanical energy. But what I'm after is rock heated to 700'C plus by proximity to magma; because that will produce massive, constant base load power. I have some ideas about how those temperatures can be reached without having to drill down very far, but it will depend on the unique features of each geothermal energy source - so, good point, I recognise that's an issue, but I can't answer without doing physical research.

I assume China and Russia will be at COP26 - it wouldn't be a party without them!
Vitruvius
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:40 pm It seems from the material I copy and paste that magma energy research has so far progressed to viable technology only in Iceland.

https://www.science.gov/topicpages/m/ma ... gy+project
Nice find. I don't know whether that's good news or bad. On the one hand, it says:

"NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Dunn, J. C.

The current magma energy project is assessing the engineering feasibility of extracting thermal energy directly from crustal magma bodies. The estimated size of the U.S. resource (50,000 to 500,000 quads) suggests a considerable potential impact on future power generation. In a previous seven-year study, we concluded that there are no insurmountable barriers that would invalidate the magma energy concept.

But then look at the date: 1982.
Vitruvius
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

Insulate Britain: Injunction granted against M25 protesters
Published 8 minutes ago
Climate change

Image

A court injunction has been granted to National Highways against protesters targeting the M25, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said. Climate change activists from Insulate Britain could face imprisonment as a result of the High Court decision. The group has blocked various parts of the M25 five times in the last week. On Twitter, Mr Shapps said the "activists will face contempt of court with possible imprisonment if they flout".

A large number of Insulate Britain campaigners have already been arrested at previous protests, the first of which affected Essex, Hertfordshire and Kent on Monday, 13 September. Protesters also targeted other motorways, included the M11 near Stansted Airport in Essex and the M3 in Surrey.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-58649286

My sympathies are very much divided here - I think they're misguided heroes, doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. I'm inclined to argue that if people think this protest is disruptive, they should worry more about climate change, because that really will stop traffic. Permanently!

But motorways are both vital and dangerous, and I'd appeal to them to stop. I'd say - I appreciate the emotional appeal of martyrdom - but no-one doubts your conscientious conviction. You've made the point. Enough is enough.
Vitruvius
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

Image

Houseboats sit in a narrow section of water in a depleted Lake Oroville in California, which is currently at 23% of its capacity, suffering from extreme levels of drought.
Vitruvius
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

Investors queue up for green Government gilts as demand hits £100bn
August Graham

Demand for the Government’s sale of green gilts was 10 times oversubscribed as investors snap up climate friendly investments.

The Treasury said on Tuesday that it had sold £10 billion worth of gilts, but demand was much higher than supply, as investors tried to place orders for £101.4 billion worth of the 12-year gilts.

“Green finance is vital in helping us to tackle the environmental challenges we face, and the launch of our first green bond is a signal that the UK continues to be a world leader in this area,” said Chancellor Rishi Sunak

“This funding will be used to finance vital green government projects across the country, including things like clean transportation, renewable energy and preserving our natural environment.

“In helping us to build back better and greener, it will also help to create jobs as we transition to net zero.”

Money from the gilt programme will fund spending on clean transportation, energy efficiency, renewable energy and more.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/i ... d=msedgntp

I only need, like - half of that!

Image
Vitruvius
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

We don't WANT limitless clean energy. This is the right approach to climate change:

Green light for a dinky green car: Citroen WILL sell its tiny electric Ami in the UK from £6,000 - with a 46-mile range and 28mph top speed
Ray Massey

...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/gre ... d=msedgntp

Image


There's also a convertible model:

Image
Vitruvius
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

...
Belinda
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:55 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:40 pm It seems from the material I copy and paste that magma energy research has so far progressed to viable technology only in Iceland.

https://www.science.gov/topicpages/m/ma ... gy+project
Nice find. I don't know whether that's good news or bad. On the one hand, it says:

"NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Dunn, J. C.

The current magma energy project is assessing the engineering feasibility of extracting thermal energy directly from crustal magma bodies. The estimated size of the U.S. resource (50,000 to 500,000 quads) suggests a considerable potential impact on future power generation. In a previous seven-year study, we concluded that there are no insurmountable barriers that would invalidate the magma energy concept.

But then look at the date: 1982.
The most recent reports within the copy I sent are dated 2017.
Vitruvius
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am

Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:55 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:40 pm It seems from the material I copy and paste that magma energy research has so far progressed to viable technology only in Iceland.

https://www.science.gov/topicpages/m/ma ... gy+project
Nice find. I don't know whether that's good news or bad. On the one hand, it says:

"NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Dunn, J. C.

The current magma energy project is assessing the engineering feasibility of extracting thermal energy directly from crustal magma bodies. The estimated size of the U.S. resource (50,000 to 500,000 quads) suggests a considerable potential impact on future power generation. In a previous seven-year study, we concluded that there are no insurmountable barriers that would invalidate the magma energy concept.

But then look at the date: 1982.
Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:00 pmThe most recent reports within the copy I sent are dated 2017.
Oh wow, I didn't imagine the whole thing was about magma energy, I thought it was just that one article. There's 25 pages of this; I've got some reading to do.
Last edited by Vitruvius on Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Belinda
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:47 pm
Vitruvius wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:55 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:40 pm It seems from the material I copy and paste that magma energy research has so far progressed to viable technology only in Iceland.

https://www.science.gov/topicpages/m/ma ... gy+project
Nice find. I don't know whether that's good news or bad. On the one hand, it says:

"NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

Dunn, J. C.

The current magma energy project is assessing the engineering feasibility of extracting thermal energy directly from crustal magma bodies. The estimated size of the U.S. resource (50,000 to 500,000 quads) suggests a considerable potential impact on future power generation. In a previous seven-year study, we concluded that there are no insurmountable barriers that would invalidate the magma energy concept.

But then look at the date: 1982.
Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:00 pmThe most recent reports within the copy I sent are dated 2017.
Oh wow, I didn't imagine the whole thing was about magma energy, I thought it was just that one article. There's 29 pages of this; I've got some reading to do.
I just did quick scan. I don't think all of them are about magma energy. For instance one of them was about engaging the interest of indigenous peoples in Canada in alternative energy generally.
Vitruvius
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Vitruvius »

Stop knocking down buildings, say engineers
By Roger Harrabin
BBC energy & environment analyst

Britain’s top engineers are urging the government to stop buildings being demolished. Making bricks and steel creates vast amounts of CO2, with cement alone causing 8% of global emissions. They say the construction industry should where possible re-use buildings, employ more recycled material, and use machinery powered by clean fuels.

They are concerned about "embodied emissions", which is the CO2 emitted when buildings and materials are made. They believe that unlike carbon from aircraft, vehicles and gas boilers, embodied emissions are not in people's minds. They suspect few people realise there's a carbon impact from, for instance, building a home extension. The report, steered by the Royal Academy of Engineering, said a new way of thinking is needed before planning new homes, factories, roads and bridges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58667328

Wrong. We need abundant clean energy with which to make bricks, steel and concrete. Magma energy can provide that.
Belinda
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Belinda »

Vitruvius wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:31 am Stop knocking down buildings, say engineers
By Roger Harrabin
BBC energy & environment analyst

Britain’s top engineers are urging the government to stop buildings being demolished. Making bricks and steel creates vast amounts of CO2, with cement alone causing 8% of global emissions. They say the construction industry should where possible re-use buildings, employ more recycled material, and use machinery powered by clean fuels.

They are concerned about "embodied emissions", which is the CO2 emitted when buildings and materials are made. They believe that unlike carbon from aircraft, vehicles and gas boilers, embodied emissions are not in people's minds. They suspect few people realise there's a carbon impact from, for instance, building a home extension. The report, steered by the Royal Academy of Engineering, said a new way of thinking is needed before planning new homes, factories, roads and bridges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58667328

Wrong. We need abundant clean energy with which to make bricks, steel and concrete. Magma energy can provide that.
Yes, but not yet?
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Sculptor
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Re: Solving Climate Change.

Post by Sculptor »

Vitruvius wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:31 am
Wrong. We need abundant clean energy with which to make bricks, steel and concrete. Magma energy can provide that.
At the moment all thes processes are provided with coke and gas to make. None of them can yet be produced with just electricity.
Electrical elements melt at termperatures needed to make these products.
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