Accepting Life

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Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:03 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:21 am Life and the way things are are difficult to accept sometimes. If I had one wish I think it would be to be happy with the way things are. Discontentment doesn't seem to be helping me any.
Sorry about your thread being hijacked, but as you can see, life is difficult for all of us. Nobody gets a free pass.
I never said it wasn't difficult for everyone.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:29 pm
simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:03 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:21 am Life and the way things are are difficult to accept sometimes. If I had one wish I think it would be to be happy with the way things are. Discontentment doesn't seem to be helping me any.
Sorry about your thread being hijacked, but as you can see, life is difficult for all of us. Nobody gets a free pass.
I never said it wasn't difficult for everyone.
I believe the earlier statement was meant to the a general statement about human nature.

Evolutionarily, Life is by default 'difficult' [inherent with sufferings] for ALL humans.
The solution is to build the necessary tools to modulate, mitigate and manage the inevitable sufferings.
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:22 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:29 pm
simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:03 pm
Sorry about your thread being hijacked, but as you can see, life is difficult for all of us. Nobody gets a free pass.
I never said it wasn't difficult for everyone.
I believe the earlier statement was meant to the a general statement about human nature.

Evolutionarily, Life is by default 'difficult' [inherent with sufferings] for ALL humans.
The solution is to build the necessary tools to modulate, mitigate and manage the inevitable sufferings.
I don't think the statement, "nobody gets a free pass" is a very constructive one. To me, it trivializes suffering. Like we're just looking for an unearned "freebie" when we try to avoid suffering or complain about it. It just makes suffering worse when people try to invalidate a person's reaction to it.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Dontaskme »

simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:35 pm
If you wish to intellectualize everything, then you will see things as you do above.
Oh, I've always seen things as I do. I see nature as a serial killer. Where's the love, where's the compassion?
Oh yeah, there isn't any, apart from the fear that arises in the human's sentient sense of self and other. There is a self realisation that I am a feeling sentient organism and so is every other. So I must do all I can to help others in their suffering, because it's horrible to suffer. I must come to terms, and accept that to be alive is a torurous and dangerous event for the most part, and we must do everything in our power to avoid this. We must find ways to comfort ourselves, aww, poor me, poor me, I'll just comfort myself with a bacon sandwich. Where's the compassion for the pig?

Knowing you are going to die one day, comes from the dual nature of language, ( self awareness) there is a knowing that death and misfortune, adversity or whatever calamity befalls us...could be yours personally at any time.. and no one wants to die. That's the true reality of the self aware sentient organism. It's born out of the shock of knowing life for sentience is a painful nasty suffering affair.

Save you're sentimental mush...and die.

simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:35 pmUnderstanding is not our strong suit, instead, allow things to come and go without adding your own 2 cents.
Speak for yourself doctor no-nothing know it all.

simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:35 pmLet the words go. True compassion manifests in action [or inaction, as the case may be].
Meanwhile, koala bears scream out in agony, all in vain while nature burns them alive. Lion cubs are swallowed whole just for daring to quench their thirst at the watering holes...where's the love, compassion.

Yeah, where's the love, where's the compassion. Ah, that's right, it's just another silly man-made up concept..the poor me, I'm so special mental attitude.

.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:22 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:22 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:29 pm

I never said it wasn't difficult for everyone.
I believe the earlier statement was meant to the a general statement about human nature.

Evolutionarily, Life is by default 'difficult' [inherent with sufferings] for ALL humans.
The solution is to build the necessary tools to modulate, mitigate and manage the inevitable sufferings.
I don't think the statement, "nobody gets a free pass" is a very constructive one. To me, it trivializes suffering. Like we're just looking for an unearned "freebie" when we try to avoid suffering or complain about it. It just makes suffering worse when people try to invalidate a person's reaction to it.
Perhaps it could also meant to counter the 'free pass' [freebies offered] insisted upon by theists who claimed 'surrender and believe!' [so easy, just say it and viola] one will escape [with a free pass] the mother of all sufferings [burnt in Hell] and all other sufferings will be taken care of by God.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Dontaskme »

simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:35 pmYou are using the common definition of compassion, not the "real" one. If you are feeling sorry for another, that is about yourself, not the other. Again, real compassion is simply seeing the truth of the matter [which allows one to act in the most appropriate manner].
The only ''real'' compassion is to love you're children enough to not have them. Real compassion is seeing the world for what it really is, ( pain and suffering) and then letting it go.. for good this time.

Do you love them enough to have not imposed a life on them in the first place?


''You cannot beat death but you can beat death in life, sometimes.
And the more often you learn to do it, the more light there will be.
Your life is your life.
Know it while you have it''


There is a great difference between not wanting to live anymore, and not wanting to live like this anymore.
I had to kill myself to fall in love.


Image

Just remember to let go of the air while you are falling.


.
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Lacewing
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Re: Accepting Life

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Dontaskme to simplcity wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:57 am Do you love them enough to have not imposed a life on them in the first place?
Did you?
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

If life is pain and suffering for everyone, then it does sound compassionate not to have children. However, I don't think everyone endures pain and suffering in life to the same degree, which is good. It's nice to think that there are ways to relative happiness in the world.

But I think a lot of people who have children have them while they are in a state of mind that they think the world and things are perfectly fine. Some of those people maybe learn too late that their assessment of the world was wrong and maybe regret having children. And maybe some go most of their lives without children thinking they are doing them a favor by not having them born, only to perhaps wish they had had children because maybe the end of their life prooves rewarding and to make up for all the pain. Others perhaps continue to live good lives and their children have good lives, etc., which is great. More power to them.

As far as responding to people's pain, there are manifold ways to do so. A popular way seems to be to shame the person and accuse them of not being thankful for what they have or accuse them of not thinking of people who have it worse. Another way is to have compassion and console the person. I think one advantage to DAM's approach is that I would think she doesn't go around telling people they have no right to feel anguish or sorrow for their troubles. I find that commendable.
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Re: Accepting Life

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And, yes, some people probably have children in spite of knowing or having a sorrowful life, perhaps because they don't want to see their family line go extinct or perhaps because they want children to take care of them in old age, just as they had to take care of their own parents in old age. Or perhaps because they got pregnant and didn't want to nullify the life of the child, in hopes that the child would one day have a better life than they did.

And it's probably worth noting that those of us who don't have children also have to rely on the kindness of the children of others to run old age homes or whatnot for when we retire (those of us who never had children). In that sense, we are perhaps even being a bit selfish to burden the children of others to take care of us. Of course, we could always just go die by the roadside or take our own lives if we want to avoid being a burden on others. It's a difficult decision to make and choosing life over death is generally the preferable option since we (or at least I do) seem to have a phobia over death. Death scares me to death. Of course, if life gets so bad that I can't bear it, then that might change. But right now I still have hope that keeps me going.
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Lacewing
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Re: Accepting Life

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Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:22 am It just makes suffering worse when people try to invalidate a person's reaction to it.
What I notice is that people on this forum often try to validate their suffering or their negativity or their beliefs by...

> invalidating life

> denying other potential

> claiming that their view/belief is actually the ultimate truth/reality, even beyond themselves

Would conversation (and awareness) change if we each presented our views as what we each see, rather than stating our views as what is to the exclusion of all else?

My experience is that the world is full of widely ranging potential. I have both suffered greatly and I have been gloriously ecstatic. I have continually seen that my experience and reality are affected and shifted and manifested by what I focus on. What I focus on increases.

Gary, you have previously said (if I remember correctly), that we can't control how we feel. Yet many people have learned/discovered how to do so. They may shift their perspective and choose a different emotional state because they see other options available to them. They do not allow their feelings to create a story or to become their emotional identity or destination. They do not attach nor climb onboard -- they allow it to pass by, and select another bus (or none at all). :) It appears to get easier with practice. Recognizing one's access to broader potential naturally outpaces limitations.

For example: Say, a friend rudely snubs me. I may initially feel hurt or insulted, and I may create a story that supports/justifies other fears or beliefs that I have. Alternatively, I don't have to attach to it and allow it to become a story that defines/limits myself or reality. I can see that there could be many reasons for what they did -- and I can see that my initial feelings are not something I'm locked into. I can move on from it. I can allow it to be. I can focus on what I want to feel instead... which will lead me to other places (emotionally/mentally/physically/spiritually). I can move away from rejection toward acceptance -- away from anger toward happiness -- away from hate toward love. I do not have to sit anywhere and stew (nor be stuck) in anything. I think there is always more to see within/from/beyond any position. So why not be more conscious and pro-active (rather than reactive) with my experience?

Focusing on suffering, trying to continually justify it and claim that it is "the truth" while invalidating/rejecting other views and "truths"... is one trip. There can be compassion for suffering (ours and others) without getting onboard for that trip.
Last edited by Lacewing on Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:16 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:22 am It just makes suffering worse when people try to invalidate a person's reaction to it.
What I notice is that people on this forum often try to validate their suffering or their negativity or their beliefs by...

> invalidating life

> denying other potential

> claiming that their view/belief is actually the ultimate truth/reality, even beyond themselves

Would conversation (and awareness) change if we each presented our views as what we each see, rather than stating our views as what is to the exclusion of all else?

My experience is that the world is full of widely ranging potential. I have both suffered greatly and I have been gloriously ecstatic. I have seen continually that my experience and reality are affected and shifted and manifested by what I focus on. What I focus on increases.

Gary, you have previously said (if I remember correctly), that we can't control how we feel. Yet many people have learned/discovered how to do so. They may shift their perspective and choose a different emotional state because they see other options available to them. They do not allow their feelings to create a story or to become their emotional identity or destination. They do not attach nor climb onboard -- they allow it to pass by, and select another bus (or none at all). :) It appears to get easier with practice. Recognizing one's access to broader potential naturally outpaces limitations.

For example: Say, a friend rudely snubs me. I may initially feel hurt or insulted, and I may create a story that supports/justifies other fears or beliefs that I have. Alternatively, I don't have to attach to it and allow it to become a story that defines/limits myself or reality. I can see that there could be many reasons for what they did -- and I can see that my initial feelings are not something I'm locked into. I can move on from it. I can allow it to be. I can focus on what I want to feel instead... which will lead me to other places (emotionally/mentally/physically/spiritually). I can move away from rejection toward acceptance -- away from anger toward happiness -- away from hate toward love. I do not have to sit anywhere and stew (nor be stuck) in anything. I think there is always more to see from (and beyond) any position. So why not be more conscious and pro-active (rather than reactive) with my experience?

Focusing on suffering, trying to continually justify it and claim that it is "the truth" while invalidating/rejecting other views and "truths"... is one trip. There can be compassion for suffering without getting onboard for that trip.
I'm not claiming that suffering is the one truth. As I say people can be happy too.

If you're instead referring to DAM, then it sounds like it brings her comfort to adopt a Schopenhauerian view of the world. Since you say you don't need to attach to something said by someone who snubs you, maybe ignore her if she responds contentiously to one of your posts. From the sounds of her posts, I would say she's probably experienced a difficult time, maybe as a child. I know a lot of people who would not adopt such a view just because they don't think it is a justified view, and that is OK. But I don't think people adopt pessimistic views just to be "downers" or something. I think it's usually due to some kind of emotional damage they've endured.
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Lacewing
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pm I'm not claiming that suffering is the one truth. As I say people can be happy too.

If you're instead referring to DAM, then it sounds like it brings her comfort to adopt a Schopenhauerian view of the world. Since you say you don't need to attach to something said by someone who snubs you, maybe ignore her if she responds contentiously to one of your posts.
I'm simply offering alternative views to things that have been said on this forum.

It seems that you get defensive, dismissive, and make excuses when people point out other considerations.

Is there something in particular that I said that you have issue with?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pmFrom the sounds of her posts, I would say she's probably experienced a difficult time, maybe as a child.
Join the fucking club! Is it really so much about what happens to us... or what we do with/despite it?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pmI don't think people adopt pessimistic views just to be "downers" or something. I think it's usually due to some kind of emotional damage they've endured.
There could be all kinds of reasons why people adopt pessimistic views. Maybe they're full of unresolved rage. Maybe they're incapable or irresponsible for themselves and want to blame the world and everyone else. Maybe they're lonely and want interaction in any way they can get it. Maybe they want to stir the pot. Maybe they're lost. Maybe they're blind. Maybe they're stupid. Maybe they want a flag they can wave, or a religion they can manipulate to their liking, in order to imagine themselves uniquely knowing or divine... while condemning the rest of mankind.

Are we supposed to tiptoe around a minefield of absurdities and/or psychosis -- or is it valuable to point out alternatives to what people do and claim here? Does being outspoken and challenging about such things mean that we do not have compassion? This is not intended as a therapy forum, after all -- isn't it, rather, for sharing ideas and challenging claims and beliefs?
Last edited by Lacewing on Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:03 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pm I'm not claiming that suffering is the one truth. As I say people can be happy too.

If you're instead referring to DAM, then it sounds like it brings her comfort to adopt a Schopenhauerian view of the world. Since you say you don't need to attach to something said by someone who snubs you, maybe ignore her if she responds contentiously to one of your posts.
I'm simply offering alternative views to things that have been said on this forum.

It seems that you get defensive, dismissive, and make excuses when people point out other considerations.

Is there something in particular that I said that you have issue with?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pmFrom the sounds of her posts, I would say she's probably experienced a difficult time, maybe as a child.
Join the fucking club! Is it really so much about what happens to us... or what we do with/despite it?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pmI don't think people adopt pessimistic views just to be "downers" or something. I think it's usually due to some kind of emotional damage they've endured.
There could be all kinds of reasons why people adopt pessimistic views. Maybe they're full of unresolved rage. Maybe they're incapable or irresponsible for themselves and want to blame the world and everyone else. Maybe they're lonely and want interaction in any way they can get it. Maybe they want to stir the pot. Maybe they're lost. Maybe they're blind. Maybe they're stupid. Maybe they want a flag they can wave, or a religion they can manipulate to their liking, in order to imagine themselves uniquely knowing or divine.

Are we supposed to tiptoe around a minefield of absurdities and/or psychosis -- or is it valuable to point out alternatives to what people do and claim here? Does being outspoken and challenging about such things mean that we do not have compassion? This is not intended as a therapy forum, after all -- isn't it, rather, for sharing ideas and challenging claims and beliefs?
I was just explaining my position. You don't have to get nasty.
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Lacewing
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:05 pm I was just explaining my position. You don't have to get nasty.
How was I being nasty?
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:11 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:05 pm I was just explaining my position. You don't have to get nasty.
How was I being nasty?
Saying "join the fucking club" and accusing me of getting "defensive" and "dismissive."

However, if you took my responses as "defensive" or "dismissive" then I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was simply stating what is the case. Most "advice' doesn't help me a whole lot when I'm extremely down and depressed. When I say, "if only it would help" I'm simply wishing it would help. But nothing much helps when I'm in the depths of despair.
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