Accepting Life

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Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

But, yes. I should say thank you for trying to help. I am being remiss in that regard. It's just difficult to deal with life sometimes.
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Lacewing
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Re: Accepting Life

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Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pm
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:11 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:05 pm I was just explaining my position. You don't have to get nasty.
How was I being nasty?
Saying "join the fucking club"
I was being feisty but honest. Most people have had rough childhoods and/or lives.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pm and accusing me of getting "defensive" and "dismissive."
I said it seems that you do.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pm nothing much helps when I'm in the depths of despair.
This is probably why it seems to me that you get defensive and dismissive.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pmMost "advice' doesn't help me a whole lot when I'm extremely down and depressed.
What helps? What brings about change? Time? Do you have any methodologies for taking the wheel... or do you feel like you're being driven? Please see me speaking from a genuine place... with the true intent of exploring understanding... usually with a friendly/caring expression on my face. Yes, I do get rowdy on this forum, as part of the fun. For me, it can't be so serious. I like to ask: Why do we claim what we do... and what does that create?

When you say over and over "it's hard" -- yes, you are speaking the momentary truth, but what is your ongoing focus on "it's hard" creating/doing? If I was in a situation that troubled me, and you tried to suggest alternatives or broader potential, and my response was over and over "it's hard, and (basically) this is just how it is until it's not"... what would you say to help me or to offer me more options? "Hang in there?" If you don't recognize/explore any other/broader potential/reality for yourself, how can you steer your ship where you want to go? You'll just stay where you're familiar with.

No offense intended. My intention is to ask honest thought-provoking questions... not only of others but of myself too.
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:39 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pm
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:11 pm
How was I being nasty?
Saying "join the fucking club"
I was being feisty but honest. Most people have had rough childhoods and/or lives.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pm and accusing me of getting "defensive" and "dismissive."
I said it seems that you do.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pm nothing much helps when I'm in the depths of despair.
This is probably why it seems to me that you get defensive and dismissive.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pmMost "advice' doesn't help me a whole lot when I'm extremely down and depressed.
What helps? What brings about change? Time? Do you have any methodologies for taking the wheel... or do you feel like you're being driven? Please see me speaking from a genuine place... with the true intent of exploring understanding... usually with a friendly/caring expression on my face. Yes, I do get rowdy on this forum, as part of the fun. For me, it can't be so serious. I like to ask: Why do we claim what we do... and what does that create?

When you say over and over "it's hard" -- yes, you are speaking the momentary truth, but what is your ongoing focus on "it's hard" creating/doing? If I was in a situation that troubled me, and you tried to suggest alternatives or broader potential, and my response was over and over "it's hard, and (basically) this is just how it is until it's not"... what would you say to help me or to offer me more options? "Hang in there?" If you don't recognize/explore any other/broader potential/reality for yourself, how can you steer your ship where you want to go? You'll just stay where you're familiar with.

No offense intended. My intention is to ask honest thought-provoking questions... not only of others but of myself too.
What helps me is to talk about it and have others relate. It makes me feel less weird and "other than" everyone else. Otherwise, I just feel like I have a problem and need to be fixed by professionals in lab coats. There doesn't seem to be a fix for my life. I've only always done things the way I felt I needed to do them. I've always had the same feelings, desires, and aspirations and if they are unrealistic, then I can't just change my feelings, desires, and aspirations unless it's to simply throw up my hands and decide that the vision of happiness I'm pursuing is a phantom and I should therefore just stay to myself and not venture out into the world.
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Lacewing
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Re: Accepting Life

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Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:23 pm What helps me is to talk about it and have others relate.
Sure. I think we all like it when others can relate to us. It only goes so far, though. When we're unhappy... what is the goal? To have company? To perpetuate or reinforce our current view? To be empowered to move beyond our current view?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:23 pm It makes me feel less weird and "other than" everyone else. Otherwise, I just feel like I have a problem and need to be fixed by professionals in lab coats.
We're all different, of course. And sometimes we can gain value from various supplements or methodologies.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:23 pmThere doesn't seem to be a fix for my life. I've only always done things the way I felt I needed to do them.
How can there be a change if you always do the same thing?

Patterns are very powerful. We human beings will choose patterns, even if unhappy... over the "unknown" of change. We might even convince ourselves that we're doing all we can... or that this is all there is. But how logical is that, really?

It can help to pivot from patterns in whatever small way you can. This, too, (I think) shows the Universe (and yourself) your intention and commitment to shift and be open to other realities. Many people have discovered that what they focus on increases. If you focus on lack, disappointment, failure, etc., you'll likely keep seeing more and more of that... it will be confirmed to you as if you were right all along! 8) Alternatively, you can say... "I'm going to pivot to something that reveals another view. I want to see another view!" Then think up things to shift your energy. Listen to music... read inspiring books... get some supplements or medication to assist your mood... take a walk in a beautiful place... etc. Allow the world to be larger... and be part of a larger world.

Otherwise, people on philosophy forums may challenge your claims about what is and must be. :lol: Wishing you the best, Gary.
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:04 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:23 pm What helps me is to talk about it and have others relate.
Sure. I think we all like it when others can relate to us. It only goes so far, though. When we're unhappy... what is the goal? To have company? To perpetuate or reinforce our current view? To be empowered to move beyond our current view?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:23 pm It makes me feel less weird and "other than" everyone else. Otherwise, I just feel like I have a problem and need to be fixed by professionals in lab coats.
We're all different, of course. And sometimes we can gain value from various supplements or methodologies.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:23 pmThere doesn't seem to be a fix for my life. I've only always done things the way I felt I needed to do them.
How can there be a change if you always do the same thing?

Patterns are very powerful. We human beings will choose patterns, even if unhappy... over the "unknown" of change. We might even convince ourselves that we're doing all we can... or that this is all there is. But how logical is that, really?

It can help to pivot from patterns in whatever small way you can. This, too, (I think) shows the Universe (and yourself) your intention and commitment to shift and be open to other realities. Many people have discovered that what they focus on increases. If you focus on lack, disappointment, failure, etc., you'll likely keep seeing more and more of that... it will be confirmed to you as if you were right all along! 8) Alternatively, you can say... "I'm going to pivot to something that reveals another view. I want to see another view!" Then think up things to shift your energy. Listen to music... read inspiring books... get some supplements or medication to assist your mood... take a walk in a beautiful place... etc. Allow the world to be larger... and be part of a larger world.

Otherwise, people on philosophy forums may challenge your claims about what is and must be. :lol: Wishing you the best, Gary.
Yeah. I hear you. Life just sucks in my book. I'm trying to change my thinking to accept that. But it's not easy.
simplicity
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by simplicity »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:14 pm
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:11 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:05 pm I was just explaining my position. You don't have to get nasty.
How was I being nasty?
Saying "join the fucking club" and accusing me of getting "defensive" and "dismissive."

However, if you took my responses as "defensive" or "dismissive" then I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was simply stating what is the case. Most "advice' doesn't help me a whole lot when I'm extremely down and depressed. When I say, "if only it would help" I'm simply wishing it would help. But nothing much helps when I'm in the depths of despair.
Hey Gary, we are just trying to reach out and offer other perspectives from those who believe they have figured out a way to live a balanced life, that's all. Nobody is casting stones or making judgments. We have all been through hard times.

Although life is suffering, it is also wonderful, so you need to be able to tap into that side as well. Otherwise, attaching to negativity will deplete what energy you have available. Each of us needs to find our own path. For me it is Zen, for you who knows what it might be, but there is a path for you. Don't give in to the notion that the suffering in life is all there is. Life can be wonderful and uplifting. But it will also be brutal at times, so it makes a lot of sense to build a solid center so you can deal with hard times when they inevitable come.
simplicity
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by simplicity »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:23 pmWhat helps me is to talk about it and have others relate. It makes me feel less weird and "other than" everyone else. Otherwise, I just feel like I have a problem and need to be fixed by professionals in lab coats. There doesn't seem to be a fix for my life. I've only always done things the way I felt I needed to do them. I've always had the same feelings, desires, and aspirations and if they are unrealistic, then I can't just change my feelings, desires, and aspirations unless it's to simply throw up my hands and decide that the vision of happiness I'm pursuing is a phantom and I should therefore just stay to myself and not venture out into the world.
Assuming that you are sound medically and that you do not need professional psychiatric/psychological help, then I would say that you just need to find that missing part. If you do suffer from chronic depression, then by all means seek help.The key is in being and believing in yourself 100%. Do all the basics as well as you can. Eat well, sleep well, exercise regularly, pray/meditate every day. Do your best in your work. Help others when you can.

It's doing the basics things in life well that leads to a good life and self-awareness. Don't worry so much about how you feel all the time. Do good things and be productive and you will feel better. Keep busy. Volunteer and meet other people who enjoy sharing their life skills.

Gary, you make your own good life, but it is the hardest thing any of us every does. You have had the courage to go on this forum and ask for help. That's huge. Now it time to do the hard work of being positive and pushing forward. One good thing leads to the next.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:59 pm If life is pain and suffering for everyone, then it does sound compassionate not to have children. However, I don't think everyone endures pain and suffering in life to the same degree, which is good. It's nice to think that there are ways to relative happiness in the world.
All humans are programmed with the primal impulse [potential] for pain and pleasure to facilitate survival.

Pain [indication of potential threats to survival] is more dominating than pleasure, i.e. one will instinctively be directed to get rid of pain before attending to pleasure. Generally managing to prevent, avoid or get rid of pains and sufferings will trigger a reward of pleasure.
Note chasing pleasure will trigger the threat of sufferings, e.g. addiction for pleasure, e.g. sex, money, food, drugs, etc.

Whilst pain is the inherent dominion potential, most people are not in pain or suffering at all times and it is during this time when the maternal /paternal instincts is active that in turn generate pleasure of child bearing and rearing which will override most the the related parenting related pains and sufferings.
Note there is an exponential rise in pregnancies after great length of sufferings, e.g. wars, drought, and other catastrophe.

Unfortunately for some, they are always enveloped by pains and sufferings, and they do have not the capacities and tools to ease, modulate those sufferings. In such circumstances these people will not think of having sex or children unless they are overcome with lusts and pregnancy was not intended in the first place.

Thus the most important part and accepting life wisely, rationally and optimally is to cultivate the necessary tools to modulate and manage one's inherent potential for inevitable pains and sufferings.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Accepting Life

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Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:59 pm

As far as responding to people's pain, there are manifold ways to do so. A popular way seems to be to shame the person and accuse them of not being thankful for what they have or accuse them of not thinking of people who have it worse. Another way is to have compassion and console the person. I think one advantage to DAM's approach is that I would think she doesn't go around telling people they have no right to feel anguish or sorrow for their troubles. I find that commendable.
Very well said.

For me, I knew immediately from as early as I first became self aware as an individual, that my journey here was going to be one hell of a bumpy ride. I was born too intelligent, I too suffered depression which is the universe informing you that there is something not quite right with the world or your world, whatever.... I already had the awareness and intelligence that this meat grinding machine called nature was not a fun game to play. I remember feeling an intense keen instinctive sense that there was something not quite right with humanity. But that's just my personal opinion, I'm not saying everyone feels the way I feel. I'm me, and can never know the thinking or feeling ways of another. What I do know, is that no one knows anything about their origins, or the universe's origin. People know absolutely nothing. So those who claim there is a creator are nothing more than a deceptive hoax puller.

To me, from a very young age, I've always felt the sense that it was better never to have been born, but quickly learnt to supress these unusual feelings, I buried them deep down in my subconscious, for fear of not fitting into the herd mentality. All the while life continued to prove my feelings to be correct. I'm not going to lie, I cannot wait for our sun to go supernova so then at least earthly life will not have to suffer anymore. Nothing will be lost, and everything will be gained.
The universe will continue on same as it ever was. As if earthly life never existed. We as sentience feeling beings will not be missed no more than life on mars and all the other barren planets in the solar system were missed.
I make no apologies for my bleak outlook. I never consented to my life. Doesn't mean I cannot enjoy it while I'm here, but I won't be choosing to come back here ever again that's for sure. Oh wait! what if God imposes it on me again. I'm going to be in so much debt to him again, what a liberty.

And that's why I had to turn my back on the idea of being the child of an all loving God. Because my logic tells me that my all loving Father God would have already known the implications of what it means to be an alive feeling sentient being. It just did not make any rational sense to impose the knowledge of suffering on another non-consenting being. God, nature or whatever it is, is a serial killer, full stop, and I think that sucks.

.
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Lacewing
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Re: Accepting Life

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Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:44 pm Life just sucks in my book.
How much of your book do you write (with your thoughts, ideas, beliefs)? Of course you cannot control all the ills of the world... but how much of your own personal life, perspective, thoughts, etc., do you direct and manage? If life sucks from your perspective, how well are your patterns (and continually "doing the same things") working for you? These are questions that any of us can ask and answer honestly for ourselves.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:44 pm I'm trying to change my thinking to accept that.
So you're trying to change your thinking to accept your "sucky" thinking? :lol: Why not actually try to expand/evolve your thinking further than what you currently think and view? Do you think there is nothing more that you personally can see, think, or experience -- would that even make sense? Or perhaps you actually prefer the familiarity of your book, as it is currently written... even if the story is old and limited and sucks? Is it a bound hardback edition... or is it in a notebook, so that you can replace and add pages? :D (Just having a little fun, Gary.)
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:44 pmBut it's not easy.
So you say, over and over and over... yet no one is disagreeing. What effect and purpose do you think that has for you to keep focusing on it? What are you continually reinforcing, and what are you dismissing as a result? Could it be possible that you've programmed yourself to a great deal?... and you continue with that same programming... which limits your capability and functionality?

If you had a wonderful, compatible partner in your life, would you still think that life sucked? Or might you embrace and love life then, despite all the ills of the world?
Last edited by Lacewing on Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
simplicity
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by simplicity »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:19 amAnd that's why I had to turn my back on the idea of being the child of an all loving God. Because my logic tells me that my all loving Father God would have already known the implications of what it means to be an alive feeling sentient being. It just did not make any rational sense to impose the knowledge of suffering on another non-consenting being. God, nature or whatever it is, is a serial killer, full stop, and I think that sucks.
Here's something to consider about religion, and in particular, the necessity of a higher power.

Without the belief in a higher power, man derives his morality from other men or himself. Unfortunately, man's intellect is weak so he will bend his morality to meet his needs, therefore the justification of all kinds of horrors [both on an individual and social level]. The reason that the Ten Commandments is such a powerful teaching is that it was handed down by God [as the story goes (and it really doesn't matter)] so when man's thinking goes to the dark side, he take out his plastic coded wallet copy of the TC and stays on the straight and narrow.

The commandment, "Thou shall not kill," in and of itself, has probable saved countless lives over the millennia.

Things are what they are out there in the world. From our human perspective, most would call life brutal, but look at other species and what they must contend with. Relatively speaking, we have it pretty easy. Just the same, there are ways to find the balance and live a contented life, but it means doing as much good as you can to off-set the bad that happens [just because].
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

simplicity wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:16 pm

The commandment, "Thou shall not kill," in and of itself, has probable saved countless lives over the millennia.

Funniest comment I've seen in a long time :lol: :lol: :lol:
simplicity
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by simplicity »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:44 pm
simplicity wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:16 pm

The commandment, "Thou shall not kill," in and of itself, has probable saved countless lives over the millennia.

Funniest comment I've seen in a long time :lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't really care what your opinion is, but you never have anything to say over and above criticism. People are interested in the "why" of what you think.

Why do you think it is funny?
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

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simplicity wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:16 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:19 amAnd that's why I had to turn my back on the idea of being the child of an all loving God. Because my logic tells me that my all loving Father God would have already known the implications of what it means to be an alive feeling sentient being. It just did not make any rational sense to impose the knowledge of suffering on another non-consenting being. God, nature or whatever it is, is a serial killer, full stop, and I think that sucks.
Here's something to consider about religion, and in particular, the necessity of a higher power.

Without the belief in a higher power, man derives his morality from other men or himself. Unfortunately, man's intellect is weak so he will bend his morality to meet his needs, therefore the justification of all kinds of horrors [both on an individual and social level]. The reason that the Ten Commandments is such a powerful teaching is that it was handed down by God [as the story goes (and it really doesn't matter)] so when man's thinking goes to the dark side, he take out his plastic coded wallet copy of the TC and stays on the straight and narrow.

The commandment, "Thou shall not kill," in and of itself, has probable saved countless lives over the millennia.

Things are what they are out there in the world. From our human perspective, most would call life brutal, but look at other species and what they must contend with. Relatively speaking, we have it pretty easy. Just the same, there are ways to find the balance and live a contented life, but it means doing as much good as you can to off-set the bad that happens [just because].
So, are you saying that, for example, if someone came up with a commandment that said, "Kill as much as you want" and ascribed it to God, there would be more killing in the world than there currently is? It's an interesting hypothesis. I wonder if it's true.

I mean, I've heard of lawless anarchist communes where people have been killed by others once in a while for pissing others off and I've heard that what tends to happen is that people in such societies behave in ways less likely to piss others off, which might mitigate the number of killings a bit. Also, there is the threat of not being successful and having the victim or their family try to kill the perpetrator. That might mitigate killing some. Is there anything like a god-given commandment "thou shalt not kill" in many Asian religions? And if not, is the rate of violent crime more or less than what it is in Judeo-Christian societies?
simplicity
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Re: Accepting Life

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Gary Childress wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:13 pmSo, are you saying that, for example, if someone came up with a commandment that said, "Kill as much as you want" and ascribed it to God, there would be more killing in the world than there currently is? It's an interesting hypothesis. I wonder if it's true.
The idea is that you must have what would be considered a solid moral foundation...although look at what has taken place in the name of God and country over the past thousand years. Human beings seem to be avid followers of all kinds of insanity.

As well, it might be similar to what John Addams said about the American Constitution, it was written for a God-fearing people and would break down if the people decided to create their own morality. Seems like he nailed that one.
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