Accepting Life

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Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:53 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:13 pmSo, are you saying that, for example, if someone came up with a commandment that said, "Kill as much as you want" and ascribed it to God, there would be more killing in the world than there currently is? It's an interesting hypothesis. I wonder if it's true.
The idea is that you must have what would be considered a solid moral foundation...although look at what has taken place in the name of God and country over the past thousand years. Human beings seem to be avid followers of all kinds of insanity.

As well, it might be similar to what John Addams said about the American Constitution, it was written for a God-fearing people and would break down if the people decided to create their own morality. Seems like he nailed that one.
Isn't morality more or less innate to humans? I mean, ultimately it seems to come down to bute instinct. If I shoot at someone, then others may not appreciate it and retaliate. So I don't shoot at others, even when they cut me off in traffic. Does it make a difference whether morality is based on God or not? There is a need for morality regardless and perhaps it forms all on its own, just in order for humans to survive. In the end, perhaps religion is nothing more than a way of establishing a hierarchy whereby some (the 'deserving') take advantage of others (the 'undeserving').
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Sculptor
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Re: Accepting Life

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Gary Childress wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:21 am Life and the way things are are difficult to accept sometimes. If I had one wish I think it would be to be happy with the way things are. Discontentment doesn't seem to be helping me any.
What are you being asked to accept?
Exactly???
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Sculptor
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Sculptor »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:15 pm
simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:53 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:13 pmSo, are you saying that, for example, if someone came up with a commandment that said, "Kill as much as you want" and ascribed it to God, there would be more killing in the world than there currently is? It's an interesting hypothesis. I wonder if it's true.
The idea is that you must have what would be considered a solid moral foundation...although look at what has taken place in the name of God and country over the past thousand years. Human beings seem to be avid followers of all kinds of insanity.

As well, it might be similar to what John Addams said about the American Constitution, it was written for a God-fearing people and would break down if the people decided to create their own morality. Seems like he nailed that one.
Isn't morality more or less innate to humans? I mean, ultimately it seems to come down to bute instinct. If I shoot at someone, then others may not appreciate it and retaliate. So I don't shoot at others, even when they cut me off in traffic. Does it make a difference whether morality is based on God or not? There is a need for morality regardless and perhaps it forms all on its own, just in order for humans to survive. In the end, perhaps religion is nothing more than a way of establishing a hierarchy whereby some (the 'deserving') take advantage of others (the 'undeserving').

Morals are a set of historically and culturally contingent rules, not innate.
The examples you give above could have the opposite reactions by people deoending on the context.
One thing is for sure the phrase "based on god" is usually uttered by those arrogant enough to think that their personal views can be justified by any means. I'm sure that the guys who rejected the rule of law in killing Bin Laden thought they could justify themselves in terms of god given morality, and in the same way Bin Laden did the same when the twin towers came down.
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:27 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:21 am Life and the way things are are difficult to accept sometimes. If I had one wish I think it would be to be happy with the way things are. Discontentment doesn't seem to be helping me any.
What are you being asked to accept?
Exactly???
Accepting that I will probably never find a woman who will reciprocate my feelings for her. I will probably never experience romantic love. I wish it were different but at 54 and only having had intimacy with a woman once in my life (a "relationship" that only lasted 4 months), it seems hopeless to aspire otherwise.
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:32 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:15 pm
simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:53 pm

The idea is that you must have what would be considered a solid moral foundation...although look at what has taken place in the name of God and country over the past thousand years. Human beings seem to be avid followers of all kinds of insanity.

As well, it might be similar to what John Addams said about the American Constitution, it was written for a God-fearing people and would break down if the people decided to create their own morality. Seems like he nailed that one.
Isn't morality more or less innate to humans? I mean, ultimately it seems to come down to bute instinct. If I shoot at someone, then others may not appreciate it and retaliate. So I don't shoot at others, even when they cut me off in traffic. Does it make a difference whether morality is based on God or not? There is a need for morality regardless and perhaps it forms all on its own, just in order for humans to survive. In the end, perhaps religion is nothing more than a way of establishing a hierarchy whereby some (the 'deserving') take advantage of others (the 'undeserving').

Morals are a set of historically and culturally contingent rules, not innate.
The examples you give above could have the opposite reactions by people deoending on the context.
One thing is for sure the phrase "based on god" is usually uttered by those arrogant enough to think that their personal views can be justified by any means. I'm sure that the guys who rejected the rule of law in killing Bin Laden thought they could justify themselves in terms of god given morality, and in the same way Bin Laden did the same when the twin towers came down.
I think morality can take many forms and manifestations (hence some degree of diversity of different codes of conduct for different human societies), however, I think wherever you have human beings congregating there will be something that will develop along the lines of a "morality," if only to facilitate the most basic communal functions. "You agree not to wrong me and I'll agree not to wrong you," as it were. Perhaps it isn't innate to humans. Perhaps morality is entirely instantiated on material phenomena.
simplicity
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by simplicity »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:15 pmDoes it make a difference whether morality is based on God or not?
It makes all the difference in the world because the word of God is based on the highest of standards [even absolutes, "Thou shall not..."]. Man, OTOH, being the weak creatures we appear to be, is [generally speaking] always looking for an excuse to run amok [which we do on a regular basis].
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Sculptor
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Sculptor »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:38 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:27 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:21 am Life and the way things are are difficult to accept sometimes. If I had one wish I think it would be to be happy with the way things are. Discontentment doesn't seem to be helping me any.
What are you being asked to accept?
Exactly???
Accepting that I will probably never find a woman who will reciprocate my feelings for her. I will probably never experience romantic love. I wish it were different but at 54 and only having had intimacy with a woman once in my life (a "relationship" that only lasted 4 months), it seems hopeless to aspire otherwise.
There are plenty of single women your age, and we exist in a time when there are many technological means by which you can find a person. I not talking about F*ck sites, but "meet ups", and formal matchmaking sites.
You just need some friendly advise about how to best present yourself, and to modify your expectations.
At your age it should be easier than when you were younger.
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Sculptor
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Sculptor »

Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:48 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:32 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:15 pm

Isn't morality more or less innate to humans? I mean, ultimately it seems to come down to bute instinct. If I shoot at someone, then others may not appreciate it and retaliate. So I don't shoot at others, even when they cut me off in traffic. Does it make a difference whether morality is based on God or not? There is a need for morality regardless and perhaps it forms all on its own, just in order for humans to survive. In the end, perhaps religion is nothing more than a way of establishing a hierarchy whereby some (the 'deserving') take advantage of others (the 'undeserving').

Morals are a set of historically and culturally contingent rules, not innate.
The examples you give above could have the opposite reactions by people deoending on the context.
One thing is for sure the phrase "based on god" is usually uttered by those arrogant enough to think that their personal views can be justified by any means. I'm sure that the guys who rejected the rule of law in killing Bin Laden thought they could justify themselves in terms of god given morality, and in the same way Bin Laden did the same when the twin towers came down.
I think morality can take many forms and manifestations (hence some degree of diversity of different codes of conduct for different human societies), however, I think wherever you have human beings congregating there will be something that will develop along the lines of a "morality," if only to facilitate the most basic communal functions. "You agree not to wrong me and I'll agree not to wrong you," as it were. Perhaps it isn't innate to humans. Perhaps morality is entirely instantiated on material phenomena.
Generally true, we are co-operative beings but there are too many exceptions to make claims about innate morals. As early homonids we had to co-operate else homo erectus would never have moved out of Africa into Asia and Europe. But that evolution cannot mandate a specific morality. At all times variations are able to thrive and pray on the "better" instincts of cooperation. What we like to call psychopthathy, indifference, sociopathy can all, and do thrive parasitically predating on others. Many of our politicians CEOs and criminals all benefit from our nature. People can be like dogs, happy to join the pack and compete for the best place, others are like cats and perfer to live alone whilst others are sheep and follow.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Accepting Life

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Sculptor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:14 am People can be like dogs, happy to join the pack and compete for the best place, others are like cats and prefer to live alone whilst others are sheep and follow.
Excellent! But unlike dogs, and cats, and sheep, whose natures determine which they will be, every human being must choose which they will be, and unlike the animals, a human being can choose not to be like any other animal, but a productive individual dealing with others as a trader of value for value to everyone's benefit.
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Sculptor
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Re: Accepting Life

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RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:11 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:14 am People can be like dogs, happy to join the pack and compete for the best place, others are like cats and prefer to live alone whilst others are sheep and follow.
Excellent! But unlike dogs, and cats, and sheep, whose natures determine which they will be, every human being must choose which they will be, and unlike the animals, a human being can choose not to be like any other animal,
Exactly what I was saying
...but a productive individual dealing with others as a trader of value for value to everyone's benefit.
Or be a complete shit exploiting the system to their own benefit.
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:58 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:11 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:14 am People can be like dogs, happy to join the pack and compete for the best place, others are like cats and prefer to live alone whilst others are sheep and follow.
Excellent! But unlike dogs, and cats, and sheep, whose natures determine which they will be, every human being must choose which they will be, and unlike the animals, a human being can choose not to be like any other animal,
Exactly what I was saying
...but a productive individual dealing with others as a trader of value for value to everyone's benefit.
Or be a complete shit exploiting the system to their own benefit.
Absolutely. Seems so obvious, but apparently not to most.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Accepting Life

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Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:38 pm Accepting that I will probably never find a woman who will reciprocate my feelings for her. I will probably never experience romantic love. I wish it were different but at 54 and only having had intimacy with a woman once in my life (a "relationship" that only lasted 4 months), it seems hopeless to aspire otherwise.
What's the reason, Gary? Is it behavioural, or is there some more obvious and straightforward reason why relationships have proved problematic? Do you know?
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:16 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:38 pm Accepting that I will probably never find a woman who will reciprocate my feelings for her. I will probably never experience romantic love. I wish it were different but at 54 and only having had intimacy with a woman once in my life (a "relationship" that only lasted 4 months), it seems hopeless to aspire otherwise.
What's the reason, Gary? Is it behavioural, or is there some more obvious and straightforward reason why relationships have proved problematic? Do you know?
It's embarrassing so I'd rather not go into it. I appreciate the concern, though.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:38 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:16 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:38 pm Accepting that I will probably never find a woman who will reciprocate my feelings for her. I will probably never experience romantic love. I wish it were different but at 54 and only having had intimacy with a woman once in my life (a "relationship" that only lasted 4 months), it seems hopeless to aspire otherwise.
What's the reason, Gary? Is it behavioural, or is there some more obvious and straightforward reason why relationships have proved problematic? Do you know?
It's embarrassing so I'd rather not go into it. I appreciate the concern, though.
I'm not trying to embarass you, and of course, you must not. Please feel free not to say. But if it's a reason you can change...or is it not?
Gary Childress
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Re: Accepting Life

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:39 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:38 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:16 pm
What's the reason, Gary? Is it behavioural, or is there some more obvious and straightforward reason why relationships have proved problematic? Do you know?
It's embarrassing so I'd rather not go into it. I appreciate the concern, though.
I'm not trying to embarass you, and of course, you must not. Please feel free not to say. But if it's a reason you can change...or is it not?
They are reasons I can't change.
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